Has a licensed GW game ever got the aesthetic right?

[Rellik San]

I ask this, because looking through old issues of Warhammer Monthly and the Will of the Emperor book or a lot of the art in Codexes/Army Books it came to me: I can't think of a single Warhammer (fantasy or 40k) game that has ever truly captured the aesthetic of the franchises in question.

What I mean is, for a Grimm (yes with too MM's to show just how grimm it is) Dark setting a lot of the video games have an almost "Noble Bright" aesthetic where the heroes armour shines and the Orks wonder round in junkers and Chaos only manifests as either Marines or greater daemons. Where are the Mechanicus with their frail twisted bodies only held up by massive cogs and cylinders? Where are the Servitors with the pipes and wiring spewing forth from their every orifice? Where are the skull faced Cherubim with injector needles for hands? Or the twisted malformed mutants of underhives wearing the flesh of humans and animal alike? Where are the 20 foot tall Orks spewing fire and warp lightning from their mouths as they let out a deafening cry of "WAAAGH!!!"? And where are the crucified inhabitants of a hive city half held up with nails and half held up by having their twisted amorphous bodies fused into the cross?

I get that a lot of imagery would have to be sanitised for mass market sensibilities, you're hardly going to find images of naked flagellates beating themselves with power maces whilst garbed only in holy scriptures nailed to their body... but it does seem that in all Warhammer videogames we get a seriously sanitised vision of the world that lends it more a generic flavour.

TLR - If Warhammers aesthetic were a snack, it'd be Pickled Onion monster munch, so why do the Videogames treat it like Ready Salted?

 

[ultramarine486]

Point of fact even things like the Codex's can't get the grim part of the grim dark future down correctly. The space marine Codex is nothing but knights in shining armor smiting evil under their holy wrath or some such nonsense. Part of the issue it the fact that the grimness of the 40K universe is entirely subjective. Some like their 40K black and miserable some like it with grey added to help round out the world. If it was really as dark as it says it is than humanity really would have died out a long long time ago.

The other part of the problem is that if they made a world as dark and gritty as the universe keeps telling them it is then it wouldn't be fun to play. No one wants to go on a mission, lose everyone along the way, become corrupted by chaos, then complete the mission only to find out you're to be executed for seeing something stupid and just before your shot in the head your commander turns out to be a demon. It wouldn't be a fun game overall and it wouldn't be that enjoyable.

To answer your question I'd say there's two or three games that capture the ascetic of the 40K universe on varying degrees.

For the grim dark that everyone wants I'd say play 'Fire warrior'. The game is kind of crap but it got the feel of the universe down rather well. Everything kinda sucks and it does look like at the end it was all for nothing. The space marine 'good guys' are only helping you for their own reasons and would rather just shoot you and be done with it. Overall it's a rather meh game that got the ascetic down at least.

The second for grim dark that doesn't go too noble would be the old 'Epic 40,000 Final Liberation' game that came out in the 80s or something. It's live action acting and it does a good job making it seem like the worlds sucks but as Imperial guard your job isn't to worry about that just shoot things. Plus the live action acting was always awesome to watch. I think at this point you can find the game on abandonware sites and the live action videos online through youtube.

The more idealized Codex like version of the 40K universe is in my mind the 'Space Marine' game. It's gritty and the combat is bloody but it never feels like it's a completely shit place to live. Sure it sucks and the orks are terrifying but one can make a living in the world. Plus the Space marines are some of the few decent people in that game which is kinda nice seeing as their the poster boys for the game as a whole. Having them be total assholes wouldn't run well with the audience that doesn't know the game as well.

 

[Dedtoo]

I personally feel that Dawn of War gets the feel right, more or less. Most of the maps looks like a lot of battles have already taken place there. Bodies remain lying on the map, showing where the greatest slaughters have happened. Blood splatters everywhere, and people panic when too many of their own dies around them. Huge armies slamming together, with greater daemons, super-heavy tanks and gods join the fray.

The first one more than the second, in a way, as the second one is more focused on squads rather than grand armies. While that works better for some of the factions and units, it just isn't the same when the squads of the swarmiest races are eight at the most. It lacks the pure numbers, in other words. Of course, II does look better in most other aspects than scale due to it being quite new compared to the first.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I'm going to have to go with Dawn of War as it gets the Metal Bawkses.

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

Point of fact even things like the Codex's can't get the grim part of the grim dark future down correctly. The space marine Codex is nothing but knights in shining armor smiting evil under their holy wrath or some such nonsense. Part of the issue it the fact that the grimness of the 40K universe is entirely subjective. Some like their 40K black and miserable some like it with grey added to help round out the world. If it was really as dark as it says it is than humanity really would have died out a long long time ago.

The codex problem can be blamed on Matt Ward and some other not-great authors who push their chosen faction and warp the canon to make them the heroes. However, it's official policy that nobody is the hero, and things tend to balance out.

As for the subjectiveness, I kind of like that. Dembski-Bowden and Sandy Mitchell have stories that are more subversive and fun, with places that don't suck entirely, at least on the surface. Meanwhile, other are much more dark and hopeless. I think that the universe is big enough, and personalities are varied enough, that those can live side by side.

 

[Greg White]

Point of fact even things like the Codex's can't get the grim part of the grim dark future down correctly. The space marine Codex is nothing but knights in shining armor smiting evil under their holy wrath or some such nonsense. Part of the issue it the fact that the grimness of the 40K universe is entirely subjective. Some like their 40K black and miserable some like it with grey added to help round out the world. If it was really as dark as it says it is than humanity really would have died out a long long time ago.

The codex problem can be blamed on Matt Ward and some other not-great authors who push their chosen faction and warp the canon to make them the heroes. However, it's official policy that nobody is the hero, and things tend to balance out.

As for the subjectiveness, I kind of like that. Dembski-Bowden and Sandy Mitchell have stories that are more subversive and fun, with places that don't suck entirely, at least on the surface. Meanwhile, other are much more dark and hopeless. I think that the universe is big enough, and personalities are varied enough, that those can live side by side.

You do know Matt Ward hasn't really changed much outside of the Necrons, right? Ultramarines have officially been the best since 2nd edition, Grey Knights have been killing witnesses and anointing their gear with blood since 2nd edition, and Phil Kelly...still can't write decent rules for the life of him.

 

[Rellik San]

Don't get me wrong, the one thing I love about a lot of Warhammer fiction is that it's about the resilience of the spirit how in a universe where everything can turn to shit if someone sneezes on the wrong window there can still be heroes (Ravenor, Kal Jericho, Gotrek and Felix) and laughs (Deff Skwadren, Redeemer, Ciaphas Cain, CQC with Tau), that to me is what stands out and appealed as a kid looking through White Dwarf and reading all the stories that throughout a universe where everything and I mean everything is as wrong as it ever could be, that we always find a way (well until the galaxy swallows itself in a swirling mass of undead gods, chaotic tidal energies and chittering masses... all of which will lose when the Ork spores explode from them).

 

[Ambitiousmould]

I disagree with the idea that DoW captured the aesthetic. It just didn't feel serious enough. Maybe it was just the weirdly cartoonish animations that I noticed from time to time.

As for other things, like the codices and stuff, each codex seems to be written from the point of view of that faction making them sort of look like the heroes-ish, so you sort of have to take the lore and fluff as a whole to get the full picture.

And I know a lot of people hated the Tau for being too noble bright, but that seems to have been rectified in 6th edition. Demonstrably by the fact that there is now mention of a horrific, unmentionable and traumatising death sentence that is carried out on any Tau who decide to breed across castes.

But I agree with you on the whole watered-down themes in the games, and find your monster munch analogy to be very apt indeed.

 

[rodneyy]

blood bowl kind of got the feel right. its not one of the core games and was sort of off in its own sub warhammer reality but i think the game got the feel of it not too badly. that mix of ultra violence mixed with deranged sillyness.

the game as a whole was a lot closer to the tabletop version than warhammer and 40k. while they did add a RTS kind of mode it was crap and no-one used it so that might have helped also i dont think the game world as a whole was all that fleshed out, it was just sorta warhammer universe but without the constant wars and just constant games of ultra violent american football.

 

[unindexedsearchengine]

Final Liberation

I have a copy of that which came on something rather nondescriptly called the "Warhammer Collection" containing 3 games, and I must say, it does rather well capture the atmosphere. It's also probably the best Warhammer game in general to date, despite it's age.

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

You do know Matt Ward hasn't really changed much outside of the Necrons, right? Ultramarines have officially been the best since 2nd edition, Grey Knights have been killing witnesses and anointing their gear with blood since 2nd edition, and Phil Kelly...still can't write decent rules for the life of him.

The Ultramarines were dominant due to numbers, but they weren't the best; here's a picture from a WD interview Ward gave around the release of 5th edition, where he claims that all Space Marines except for the most fringe elements want to be Ultramarines and hold the Chapter Master of the Ultramarines as their liege.

Spoiler

This is not "being the best", it's saying that all the wars and disagreements between the chapters basically didn't happen because everyone loves the Ultramarines so much they have posters of Calgar on their bedroom ceilings, and they all (presumably) love the Codex Astartes as an outgrowth of that that a lot of the individual personality and organization they inherited from their parent chapters would be lost.

The Grey Knights have always been dicks, true, but that's not the problem. The problem is characters like Draigo that are totally outsized for the universe, stomping all over Chaos forces in the Warp for kicks, and having a super-secret box with the fate of the universe inside (ooh scary).

I know I sound all grumpy and neckbearded, but it pains me to see him write this stuff and make it canon (or as close to canon as 40,000 has). Seeing the Balkanisation and flaws of the Space Marines be unwritten for the sake of advancing his preferred factions is very disheartening.

 

[Worgen]

I found something that perfectly captures the warhammer 40k aesthetic, check it out.

Spoiler

If you have followed my posts at all then you knew what I was going to link.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Seeing as I prefer my 40K as black comedy, I prefer some of the more cartoony aspects. In a franchise where the utter darkness goes to such an extreme degree that it recursively becomes funny, I like that the horrific space aliens just happen to be looking for a good time and speak cockney english. It's why I love Dawn of War so much. It knows that the world is an absolute shithole, but it remains satirical.

 

[Rellik San]

The Ultramarines were dominant due to numbers, but they weren't the best; here's a picture from a WD interview Ward gave around the release of 5th edition, where he claims that all Space Marines except for the most fringe elements want to be Ultramarines and hold the Chapter Master of the Ultramarines as their liege.

Spoiler

This is not "being the best", it's saying that all the wars and disagreements between the chapters basically didn't happen because everyone loves the Ultramarines so much they have posters of Calgar on their bedroom ceilings, and they all (presumably) love the Codex Astartes as an outgrowth of that that a lot of the individual personality and organization they inherited from their parent chapters would be lost.

The Grey Knights have always been dicks, true, but that's not the problem. The problem is characters like Draigo that are totally outsized for the universe, stomping all over Chaos forces in the Warp for kicks, and having a super-secret box with the fate of the universe inside (ooh scary).

I know I sound all grumpy and neckbearded, but it pains me to see him write this stuff and make it canon (or as close to canon as 40,000 has). Seeing the Balkanisation and flaws of the Space Marines be unwritten for the sake of advancing his preferred factions is very disheartening.

WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDD! *Shakes fists* By all means lets get neck beardy... as I believe Black Templar, Crimson Fist and Imperial Fist players had some MAJOR issues with that interview. Hell he even managed to stop DA and SW players from deciding which is better (doom or power metal I believe is the debate). Well and anyone who actually understands that what Rawbutt Girlyman did was heresy of the highest order. It's easy to bully other legions when you sat alone in your own little empire away from all the major incursions of 40K (The Heresy, Armageddon I, II, III and IV) and get butt raped by the 'Nids.

And worse, as an Ork player, I believe he is lead writer of my Codex... they gave my Codex to be written by a man who actively has stated numerous times that he hates Orks.

I found something that perfectly captures the warhammer 40k aesthetic, check it out.

Spoiler

If you have followed my posts at all then you knew what I was going to link.

JOKES ON YOU! I'm a Brony and found that quite humourous.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

The Spacemarines game got alot of the action right. The correct mix between inter-galactic badass and lumbering behemoth came across nicely.

And besides that.. did the game ever have a cohesive tone? Well except for "everything is grim! Really really grim! *Linking Park music starts playing*". The setting of the universe was always pretty fun but the writing outside of some books is pretty bad and aimed at boys in puberty - specially in everything related to the (tabletop)games.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

im no expert but i think DoW games captured the feel of the universe

I found something that perfectly captures the warhammer 40k aesthetic, check it out.

Spoiler

If you have followed my posts at all then you knew what I was going to link.

the things i would give to not endure a single MLP post ever again, im so sick of this thing, im so sick of its fandom, i dont think ive ever been so sick of a fandom in my entire life, what does it take for the fandom of that show to stop shoving their stuff down everyone's throat?

 

[Godhead]

As stated multiple times above, the DoW games do a very good job re-creating the worlds of 40k. I would also put down the Space Marine game also had great world-building. (Along with one of the few likeable Ultra Smurfs.)

 

[Worgen]

im no expert but i think DoW games captured the feel of the universe

I found something that perfectly captures the warhammer 40k aesthetic, check it out.

Spoiler

If you have followed my posts at all then you knew what I was going to link.

the thing i would give to not endure a single MLP post ever again, im so sick of this shit, im so sick of its fandom, i dont think ive ever been so sick of a fandom in my entire life, what does it take for the fandom of that show to stop shoving their stuff down everyone's throat?

Well, you know what they say.

Spoiler

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

im no expert but i think DoW games captured the feel of the universe

I found something that perfectly captures the warhammer 40k aesthetic, check it out.

Spoiler

If you have followed my posts at all then you knew what I was going to link.

the thing i would give to not endure a single MLP post ever again, im so sick of this shit, im so sick of its fandom, i dont think ive ever been so sick of a fandom in my entire life, what does it take for the fandom of that show to stop shoving their stuff down everyone's throat?

Well, you know what they say.

Spoiler

and then you guys complain about the "haters"

anyways i dont want to derail this thread, just wanted to get that out of my chest, carry on