Has the 'X-com reboot approach' ever worked?

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Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Zhukov said:
Bethesda took an isometric turn-based RPG and made a real-time RPG-FPS. They pissed a few people off along the way, but the game was well received and sold a bunch.
The big question is - was this a success though?
Yes.

I'm not a huge fan of Fallout 3 myself. I was rather relieved when my save file disappeared and gave me a good excuse to stop playing.

However, I can't deny that the game did well in every way that matters. It's well regarded, it got a good critical reception and it sold well.
 

CannibalCorpses

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Aug 21, 2011
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There was one other similarity between fallout 2 and 3 that nobody else has mentioned...bugged to fuck lol.

As for x-com i would rather they make another turn based strategy game than a first person shooter but nobody seems to make them anymore. It's like developers have decided that players aren't tactically aware enough to think past reaction based games anymore. That the graphics will never be as shiny or as easy to advertise so fuck it, lets not bother with them at all.

It's really a shame that the people who made gaming a popular medium are the people who games developers ignore the most when making games nowadays. This is probabvly the reason that i am considering fucking the games industry off completely and finding a new hobby
 

Ordinaryundone

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You know, I'm a pretty big fan of X-Com: UFO and TftD, but I don't think the reboot looks all that bad. In fact, I'm rather curious about it.
 

Stall

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Apr 16, 2011
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Yes, it does. Launching new IPs is dangerous for both the developer and publisher. Attaching a name with some value to it and making it tangentially related to that name makes it less dangerous. That's about all it comes down to really... it's a move that makes launching what is effectively new IP less dangerous.

Besides, I think one important thing to remember is that FPSs are basically the strategy games of this generation: they are perhaps the most popular genre in their respective generation that work incredibly well with the level of technology avaliable to developers at that time. If you were to take an older franchise and view it through the lenses of modern gaming, it WOULD be an FPS. The fundamental flaw so many people make is that they: a) assume this is a bad thing, and b) assume it is do to "casualization" or "creatively bankrupt whatever". No no no. This could not be more wrong. Like I said, FPSs happen to be a genre that work exceedingly well with our current level of technological advancement. And it's the same reason RTSs were so popular around the turn of the millennium, and why 2D platformers were so popular in the 80s. It has nothing to do with a lack creativity or "casuals" or whatever... simply that the FPS genre is the most effective way to utilize the technology we have right now.

The gaming community just stuns me at times. People complain and complain about no new IPs, yet when we get something that is pretty close to fresh IP, people complain and complain some more just because of the name. Ironic, yes?
 

BloatedGuppy

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Feb 3, 2010
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I wouldn't really have an issue with the re-imagining of X-Com as the...space invasion...1950's...noir...mash up...thing...that they've come up with, really, if it wasn't for 2K Game's impossibly obnoxious statement that "strategy games are not contemporary". A statement so boggling in its ignorance and falsehood that there aren't enough fists in the world to deliver the number of cock punches they deserve.
 

drummond13

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Apr 28, 2008
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It works all the time. By "working" I mean that, since the sole intention of using the brand name is to get more attention, it's completely successful. I don't know if the new X-com game will be good or not, but it's certainly more on the radar than if it had a title completely unrelated to a past franchise I'm familiar with. Hey, it leads to even more exposure by prompting people like you to start threads like this one. You're giving them free advertising, and all because they called the game X-com. :)
 

targren

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I don't know how well it worked, since there was no internet and I was too young at the time to know how to find sales numbers, but it worked at least once (on me) when Squaresoft did this back in the early 90s. Using the "Final Fantasy" label to introduce the SaGa ("Final Fantasy Legend") and Seiken Densetsu ("Final Fantasy Adventure") series on the original game boy. I scraped them all up because of the name and, honestly, I'm glad I did. With the exception of FFL/SaGa 3, they were great games.
 

varulfic

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I think it should be noted that the difference in gameplay between old and new Fallout isn't that big of a leap. They changed perspective from overhead to first person, and made it mostly real time instead of turn based, but other than that... it's still an open, non-linear RPG game like it always was. It's still the same setting, and they atleast tried to evoke a similar post-apocalyptic feel as the first ones.

Compare that to the new XCom which is in a completely different genre of gameplay that is absolutely nothing like how the originals played, AND a brand new setting taking the game from near-future into the 1950s, AND replacing all the known enemies with completely new designs. Old and new Fallout have several things in common, but the only thing old and new XCom have in common is the name.
 

Scow2

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The reason Fallout 3 succeeded, while I suspect XCOM will fail, is that the Fallout series was already an Open-World RPG with a robust character creation system, well-developed setting, and a variety of quests and quest structure. Fallout 3 kept all of that (Or at least obviously tried to, with a few elements getting lost in transition). Black Isle made the games with an isometric, turn-based engine similar to their other games: Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. Bethesda used a first-person, real-time engine similar to their other games: Arena, Daggerfall, Battlespire, Morrowind, Shadowkey, and Oblivion.

The problem with X-COM is that it's trying to be just another Sci-Fi FPS, when the original series' draw was Civilization meets Independence Day or War of The Worlds. Making it yet another Retraux 1950's game a la Fallout and Bioshock is an obvious bandwagon gimmick as well. What does the new game offer that Star Wars Battlefront 2, any Halo game (Particularly ODST and Reach), Duke Nukem 3D, the Alien vs. Predator games, or similar games don't?

Actually, now that I think of it, Call of Duty Meets Independence Day could be a great game concept. I don't think I've seen any AAA first-person shooters that have "realistic" military shooter combat against alien invasions. Maybe this XCOM will work out, as long as they start moving back toward the Diplomacy and Strategy elements layered over FPS and (Space-)Flight Simulation elements. Except for that whole 1950's aesthetic bullshit.
 

DesertHawk

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Zhukov said:
has this approach ever worked in the past?
I would say so. Going back to the very early days of the first person shooter genre, you could look at Wolfenstein 3d as a prime example.

Wolf3D was based upon two earlier games, Castle Wolfenstein and Beyond Castle Wolfenstein. Those two early Wolf titles were stealth-based action adventure titles played from a top-down perspective that handled more like a precursor Metal Gear, rather than an action shoot-em-up. ID decided to re-imagine the setting and circumstance of Castle Wolfenstein as a visceral action game whose success and impact on the gaming industry speaks for itself.

I understand that this example is not 100% comparable to the current X-Com/Fallout/Syndicate situation. It's one thing to drastically redesign a somewhat successful title from the stone age of video game design; it's quite another to do the same for icons of the RPG/Tactical Strategy genres. However, I wanted to point out that just because a series takes a different direction from previous titles, the new entry shouldn't be discounted. It still has a chance to make a significant impact on the industry.
 

BloatedGuppy

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DesertHawk said:
It's one thing to drastically redesign a somewhat successful title from the stone age of video game design; it's quite another to do the same for icons of the RPG/Tactical Strategy genres.
This. I don't think a lot of the people hand-waving this are aware of the significance of X-Com as far as strategy gaming goes, and the tactical sub-genre in particular. This is the equivalent of making Modern Warrior 4 a point and click adventure title. Or Half-Life 3 a Facebook game. And then giving an interview and saying "FPS games really aren't contemporary".
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Hm... since most success is measured in terms of money, I'm going to go with sales.

In that case, yeah it'll probably be successful. But you can still be successful in a more "niche" market. After all, Paradox seems to be doing just fine being a niche publisher. And Firaxis(Civilization), CD Projekt Red(Witcher), and Egosoft(X series) seem to be doing just fine selling games in supposedly "dead" or "non-contemporary" markets. Those being turn-based strategy, old-school RPG, and space-sim. And all on the PC, no less.

Suppose it's more about business strategy. Using money to make a great game, or using games as a way to make lots of money.
 

AyreonMaiden

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Sonic 4 tried to be old-school Sonic. People bitched because NOT SONIC 2.

Take that, replace with XCOM/X-com, Fallout 1/2 and 3, Deus Ex 1/Deus Ex HR.

The worst of any fanbase will always *****. Forever. Because they're far too nitpicky for anyone's good. Worst part? They're so loud!

With respect to old-ass franchises, were I a developer I'd rather be tasked with rebooting an older property and risk making an awesome-yet-different take on it than be made to give it a sequel in every sense of the word so many years after it managed to amass THOSE kinds of fans. You'll never please anyone that way because the closer you are to the original, the more glaring the differences become, and then the termites crawl out of the wood to eat you apart. If, from the get go, it's very different to a fault, then you can love it on its own merits instead of writing it off for Insignificant Reason #345436 or BECAUSE NOT SONIC 2.

That said, has it worked before? I'd say it has. I love Fallout 3 more than the first two. I love Metroid Prime far more than Super Metroid. There's probably others.
 

BloatedGuppy

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AyreonMaiden said:
Take that, replace with XCOM/X-com, Fallout 1/2 and 3, Deus Ex 1/Deus Ex HR.
Oh come on.

Fallout 1 and 2 were roleplaying games. Fallout 3 was a roleplaying game.
Deus Ex 1 was a shooter/RPG hybrid. Deus Ex Human Revolutions was a shooter/RPG hybrid.
X-Com was a tactical turn based/grand strategy game. The new X-Com is a 50's styled shooter.

One of these things is not like the others.

Again I ask...if the new Half Life or Modern Warfare or Elder Scrolls or whichever game was a Facebook game, would the people who were unhappy about the change be "the worst part of the fanbase"? They have fundamentally changed the nature of what X-Com was. They didn't change from isometric to 1st person. They didn't add in some cover based shooting. They changed to a completely different genre, jettisoning 98% of what made X-Com a classic in the process, then proceeded to shit-talk strategy games in an interview.

Yeah, damn those surly fans. They're just never happy no matter what you do!
 

exp. 99

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While Fallout 3 did well, it had its failings. Several of them. But then again, pretty much all games do.

But for XCOM in specific...while I am a fan of X-Com, and loved the original to death, my gripes spark less from 'OMG NOT X-COM WTF' and more from what I've seen of the actual gameplay.

It looks like Mass Effect 2, without the framework of ME1 to let it coast. The teammate controls look similar, only real difference I saw was swapping universal power cooldown for a AP-esque system called TU's. I'm pretty unimpressed, mostly because while I enjoyed ME2, it wasn't the gameplay mechanics that made me happy with the game. It was the characters, A, and the continuation of the details they set out in ME1.
Cover based shooting vs an array of hostiles that all more or less look identical is fairly bland anymore, and the fifties skin it's put in doesn't change the fact that the game looked incredibly linear, where it'll end up in trade shots with bad man, or scoot along to the side to shoot them behind their chest high walls. Solid mechanics, but lacking in presentation value to make it worth the time or money.
 

Scow2

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I could actually think of a way for them to re-boot XCOM as an FPS. It just wouldn't be the way the current developers are doing it:

First, return to the first game's story/setting concept. An elite military force is tasked with saving the world from Aliens and Monsters without pissing off the countries. Set it at the end of 2012 to belatedly jump on the "End of the World" bandwagon, or 2014. Far enough into the future that "It might happen" but still in the present enough to use our weapons and armor. (This retraux 50's bullshit has to go.)

Now, instead of having the player control the entire XCOM faction through the power of Microsoft Excel, have him play a single Sergeant in this faction. Make it a squad-based shooter, with innovative, easy-to-use tactical control and options. Then, throughout the campaign, have several references to the diplomatic and political situation that's going on in the higher echelons of XCOM. The command center or between-mission screens should feature several elements from the older games' strategy interface. Then, even while the game remains a tactical shooter/"Call of Duty meets Independence Day"-type game, it still contains and introduces players to the diplomacy, strategy, tactics, and other elements of the original series.

Also, going about it this way makes it an actual "reboot" of the series, instead of a doomed one-shot that completely kills the series (As the Space-Marine Turok did to that series, without even changing genre!). Future games could have the scope of the game expand towards the original, as the player takes more direct control of the Anti-Alien Task Force as (s)he becomes more familiar with it.



A mental exercise I came up with tried applying the same situation to the Starcraft franchise:

Suppose that Starcraft only gathered a cult following, instead of the massive audience it gained. Also, suppose that Blizzard didn't wait about ten years between games, and instead followed it up with a number of successive RTS games that, while adding more features, just bloated the franchise into an amorphous, corpulent mess threatening to bankrupt Blizzard.

"Starcraft II" is Brood War: Another, completely-seperate RTS with a new interface, splits the three factions into six (Terrans, UED, Overmind's Brood, Kerrigan's Brood, Protoss of Aiur, Dark Templar), and advances the story as Kerrigan becomes Queen ***** of the Universe. It becomes a commercial success, but a few weeks/months after it's release, gamers start feeling that for all it's high points, some of the additions really detracted from the original game. It financially matches the success of the first game, but doesn't acquire the same legacy.

"Starcraft III" Follows shortly after. For the purposes of this mental exercise, it essentially turns the game into what boils down to a Dawn of War clone (but prevents that franchise from forming, keeping Starcraft unique even with the changes. Relic does get into the RTS market with Company of Heroes, though): introducing a Command-and-control economy instead of Alderis shouting "You Require More Vespene Gas", squad-based unit control and production, and a more discriminate, tighter unit cap. Older fans are alienated by the changes, except for a cult few, and new players aren't very interested in it. Still, it's considered a solid game, and some of the older fans who didn't like trying to micromanage large numbers of units consider it the "best" Starcraft game. Story-wise, it focuses on a completely different conflict in the system, using a new cast of characters, kills Kerrigan to restore the faction balance, completely brushes aside fan-favorite characters in favor of new, mostly uninteresting ones such as Nova (A blatant Ghost-Kerrigan clone), Tychus Findley (a grittier, morally ambiguous replacement for Raynor), Praetor Karass, Selendis, and the like that do manage to get their own cult following.

"Starcraft IV" is considered absolute shit. It introduces the Xel'Naga as a playable race, completely bloats the series with new, frequently-malfunctioning features, completely trashes the economy, factions are horribly unbalanced and everyone hates it. And the story is absolutely pretentious shit. Fourth games in a series always end up being shit. Comparisons to Tiberium Twilight and Dawn of War: Soulstorm are apt.

Starcraft IV's abysmall failure almost bankrupts Blizzard... Fortunately, they are saved by taking the MMORPG world by storm with World of Warcraft. Five years later, after several Human Resource shuffles, they decide there's still potential in the Starcraft franchise, as long as they can distance themselves from the third game and fourth games. However, they don't want to pull a Megaman 10 or Sonic 4 by trying to get back to the now-outdated elements of the first game.

Cue Wings of Liberty. Taking inspiration from Starcraft:Ghost, which was canceled in favor of the disasterous Starcraft IV, the game's a first- or third-person hybrid of a Gears of War-type shooter, with sections that wouldn't be out of place in Mech Assault, and a few more space-combat sections with gameplay resembling that of Crimson Skies.

The story reboots after the second game, with a few changes that leave the oldest fans scratching their heads.

In Wings of Liberty, you control Jim Raynor, directly leading the greatly-depleted Raynor's Raiders into battle for tight, squad-based action. A friend can play co-op as fan-favorite Terran Marine Tychus Findley from the third game... though his actual storyline has been completely ret-conned, he's clearly still the same character. The combat is tight and fun, with controls that are familiar to conventional FPS gamers. The game does, however, hint at the original RTS roots of the game. You get a very limited arsenal for the power-armor sections, though. However, this is mitigated by your Gause Rifle believably being able to tear through heavy armor and shred vehicles with sufficient application. General consensus is that the Gauss Rifle may be the only gun, but the way it plays is worth the entire arsenal of Painkiller.
And the power-armor sections are just a small portion of the game.


Between missions, you can walk around and explore almost the entire Hyperion... or at least the interesting parts: You can see the vehicles, mechs, and smaller starfighters that you'll eventually get to drive/pilot later in the game. The Wings of Liberty action game definitely feels like Starcraft aesthetically, even with the new vehicles and weapons. However, the strategy, micromanaging, and distant command of the RTS games are replaced with set-piece battles and pre-determined missions. Several of the missions or parts of missions even feel like the commands or situations that pop up in the RTS series... Aside from everything about Raynor and Findley being completely overpowered compared to everyone else to make the game actually playable.

For a complete change of pace, the game even has a section where you play as Zeratul. (Single-player only)

Amazingly, despite the broad spectrum between standard Shooter in Terran Marine power armor, mechanically visceral Mech combat in Vikings, some Armored Awesomeness in Siege Tank columns, and flight-simulator combat in Vikings and other fighter-craft, the game manages to stay cohesive and focused. Despite being such a departure in terms of gameplay from the original series, it's a critical hit.
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That would be the way to update and re-boot a franchise in a new genre.

Not by turning it into a 50's-aesthetic shooter.

EDIT: Why the hell are my tags screwing up?
 

Jamash

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Jun 25, 2008
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I think Rockstar's decision to re-boot Grand Theft Auto as a 3D third person game was quite successful, both critically and commercially.

In fact it was so successful that they made several sequels and another, half-reboot this generation.