They probably shut this one down because it overlapped with the iPhone game and the official online flash games. It's worth noting they haven't touched Fighting is Magic, despite knowing about it for over a year now.
Hasbro Forces Closure of MLP: Online
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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So they created an MMO, based on an IP that is being actively used, and they didn't own, and they got a C&D, and they thought it was a troll? What kind of world do these people live in (Ponyworld I guess? Is... is there a name of the world of ponies? It's a pun, right?)
I'm pretty sure Hasbro could have cut them a deal, but I don't think trying to deal with an MMO based on a franchise that appeals both to young girls and middle-aged men is an idea worth pursuing.
I'm pretty sure Hasbro could have cut them a deal, but I don't think trying to deal with an MMO based on a franchise that appeals both to young girls and middle-aged men is an idea worth pursuing.
They thought it was a troll because a lot of fan produced stuff has received C&D orders, which most of the time turn out to be fakes.The Random One said:
In general, Hasbro supports fan-produced content. It isn't all the strange to think a C&D is a troll in this case.
Also, the MMO would appeal to far more people than "little girls" and "Middle aged men".
Trust me.
Hmm, considering the amount of trolling that happens to certain parties (The Tumblr take downs, all the work of a lone troll with a hatred of pony and too much time on his hands; the first wave of Youtube removals by "Habsro, Inc."; Etc. etc.). I can understand why they would assume it's a troll. Obviously the pursued the matter further and found out it was real, and acted accordingly.The Random One said:
That's pretty common, actually.FelixG said:
Devs have a specific project based on an IP, they start working on it but keep the details wrapped up, then they arrange a meeting with the rights-holder or one of its representatives, and show off the project. That way you can have something to show for your efforts and you can prove your ability to handle the IP respectfully.
What's a little less smart is starting a fan project, posting videos of it on YouTube and then acting surprised when the owners of the intellectual property you're using catch on to what you've been doing. You're always better off taking the initiative first, so long as you cover your six.
Again, given the amount of MLP fan-made games out there, it's no surprise that the devs took this as a troll. This is the first one Hasbro's issued a C&D against; they've been pretty relaxed about fan-made content. Like others have said, the devs might have been making a little money off this, though, which is a definite no-no.The Random One said:
Also, of course it's a pun. Equestria. Not nearly as bad as some of the cities there, like Manehattan and Fillydelphia, though.
Why am I here? What is going on? Is my face bleeding? NO! this has nothing to do with finals tomorrow...
O.T.
...meh..
To be honest, I'm surprised they didn't get totally rolled over by lawyers. But, I can see why they would think they would be in the clear, Black Mesa Source is entirely someone else's IP and they haven't been shot down, at all. But I think they've been talking with Valve about it, plus they didn't go and outright call it "Half Life Source" which would be questionable at best.
O.T.
...meh..
To be honest, I'm surprised they didn't get totally rolled over by lawyers. But, I can see why they would think they would be in the clear, Black Mesa Source is entirely someone else's IP and they haven't been shot down, at all. But I think they've been talking with Valve about it, plus they didn't go and outright call it "Half Life Source" which would be questionable at best.
Just so people know, even if a company has generally been okay with people making fan-stuff, they are always within their right to pimp slap you for it at any given time. Luckily, if they want to save the game they can always re-skin it and release it as a different project (though it sound like that would defeat the whole point).
Man, I can't wait to be on that side of the fence, wait till a fan made project is done or almost done, see how it does and gauge audience reception, then shut it down.
I understand that these companies have to shut these projects down but it just seems like they always wait till it's finished or nearing completion when they send the C & D notices. These fandoms are not very shy about their creations, it shouldn't take this long to realize the group was productive enough to finish it.
I understand that these companies have to shut these projects down but it just seems like they always wait till it's finished or nearing completion when they send the C & D notices. These fandoms are not very shy about their creations, it shouldn't take this long to realize the group was productive enough to finish it.
Chances are the issue was more the overlap between the officially licensed games and this game.-Dragmire- said:
They thought it was a troll...? Even while knowing that they used trademarked characters, settings etc. without permission...? How dumb are they? Well, I guess they'll change the names, colour-scheme etc. and release it as an inofficial, MLP-like MMO then instead.
Captcha: watch c-beams glitter
I don't know MLP, but I'm assuming "C-beams Glitter" is one of the ponies.
Captcha: watch c-beams glitter
I don't know MLP, but I'm assuming "C-beams Glitter" is one of the ponies.
Look at several of the responses above. Between Hasbro being very lenient with fanwork, and the many trolls out there who fake C&D letters, it actually isn't all that dumb.Skeleon said:
And, no. C-beams Glitter is not a pony, neither official or fanmade
Actually it still an issue. "Non-profit" is not excuse for copyright and trademark violation, only Fair-Use(Education, News, and Parody) are exempt. The reason for this is a company releases a pay for game, and some one releases a free copied version. Even though there is no money being made, it prevents the company from making money from customers who instead of paying for the version of the game, get the free version. However there is a fine line if and "only if" a company deems it see these free versions as advertising for the brand and lets them stand. However, this decision is up to the company and can have them removed if they fell so(unless of course it falls under the above mentioned Fair-Use)Capitano Segnaposto said:
I do not see why people hate on copyright laws. Think about this: without such great protection, the big game companies like EA, Blizzard Activision, Ubisoft would crush independents. They would make knock-off of almost everything making it harder to compete. There would be a lot less innovation and less creative games.
Well, my opinions are pretty close to what you'd expect.
In general I feel that the idea of the Internet and Internet freedom is specifically to say and do what you want. When you see projects like this backing down to companies, even those with legitimate copyright claims, it causes a little more of the freedom of The Internet to die along with it. I feared things like this were going to happen when companies started getting involved to a greater degree on the internet. To be honest as long as MLP Online wasn't stealing a product directly (ie copying/pirating someone else's work), or charging money, it shouldn't have been a big deal, this kind of project... even if not my cup of tea... is what makes the Internet what it's supposed to be. For those who have been around as long as I have, it should be easy to see why someone might expect to get away with this, to be honest company smackdowns of fan projects are fairly recent, and not consistantly attempted. An MMO is basically a MUD with graphics when you get down to it (for those familiar with a MUD), and people have been creating MUDs off of properties they liked for far longer than the world wide web most people are familiar with has existed.
To be honest the whole "the copyright must be defended" thing needs to be examined on it's own, but to be honest it seems to me that this is mostly an excuse used by companies when they decide to punkhammer someone and want to try and avoid upsetting the fans. The actual motivation in going after something like MLP Online is simply because companies don't want free competition with their own products if they decide to try and release in cyberspace. A free/fan funded production can oftentimes force a very high standard if your going to compete. Someone wanting to crap out a quick Free To Play (or more accuratly... microtransaction you to death) MMO based on something like MLP, which is probably on Hasbro's "to do" list would probably create something similar to what little we've seen of this game. If something on this level already exists, they have to aim higher... and that can be tricky when it comes down to free fan programmers operating out of love, against paid professionals where every hour spent making graphics and hammering code costs money. That said I feel that it's the fan creations that are supposed to force higher standards from the professionals, I think a lack of competition from fans in certain arenas has lead to the decreasing quality of online games.
I'll also say that I think people have gotten too stupid on the internet, a lot of these projects that get "raided" operated way too publically and made themselves too easy to find. It's almost like people thinking their facebook page is secure... If your going to invest hundreds or thousands of dollars and hours into a project like this, at least take the time to get server space outside of the country, set up alternative routing systems in case someone wants to try and block you, and ensure that it's as hard as possible to find out who the REAL people involved in the project are through electronic means. This latter one seems like common sense, I mean going back to the whole "Masters of Deception Vs. Legion Of Doom" fiasco from many years ago (there is a lot of information about this, and various takes on it) the guys involved were smart enough to hide their identities, while some people got outed, to this day nobody knows who Lex Luthor (leader of The Legion Of Doom) was in real life, and the bottom line is this entire thing required massive federal resources AND getting hackers to go after other hackers. With all of the borderline untracable sites out there people have set up over the years, you'd expect anyone putting in the time, effort, and resources to set up their own MMO that might get corperate attention, might consider you know... making themselves difficult to take down, and then just outlasting critics. It's one thing for Hasbro to send you a latter and threaten you with a Lawyer if they know who you are, it's quite another if they don't know who you are, your site keeps coming back every time they try and find a way to block it off, and groups like the FBI are liable to put "someone running an illicit My Little Pony Game" pretty low on their priority list especially given the amount of taxpayer money it's liable to take to deal with this, especially if the case has to go accross international boundaries.... sure none of what I'm saying is easy to set up, but we're already talking about people good enough to code their own MMO. If your not doing any real damage or actually making money, few people are going to bother to chase an annoying bug they just can't squash. After all even if you get caught in cases like this, what's going to happen, you get a couple years in prison, but Hasbro (or whomever) and the Feds will have spent millions taking action. Realizing this figures into the cost-benefit analysis of law enforcement more than you might think (IRL isn't anything like TV cop shows, DNA, computer modeling, blood splatter analysis, etc.. is all bloody expensive. A lot of cases go unsolved simply because they are deemed unworthy the resources from a limited budge... which also fuels complaints about 'poor people not getting justice' based on which cases get the most resources diverted to them).
At any rate, I'm rambling, the bottom line is that I think the case is stupid, unless MLP Online was in some way making money for it's creators, in which case it was justified. I think Hasbro is being stupid and greedy, and I think the guys who set this up had a comical lack of foresight and preparation, and also arguably gsve up far too easily.
In general I feel that the idea of the Internet and Internet freedom is specifically to say and do what you want. When you see projects like this backing down to companies, even those with legitimate copyright claims, it causes a little more of the freedom of The Internet to die along with it. I feared things like this were going to happen when companies started getting involved to a greater degree on the internet. To be honest as long as MLP Online wasn't stealing a product directly (ie copying/pirating someone else's work), or charging money, it shouldn't have been a big deal, this kind of project... even if not my cup of tea... is what makes the Internet what it's supposed to be. For those who have been around as long as I have, it should be easy to see why someone might expect to get away with this, to be honest company smackdowns of fan projects are fairly recent, and not consistantly attempted. An MMO is basically a MUD with graphics when you get down to it (for those familiar with a MUD), and people have been creating MUDs off of properties they liked for far longer than the world wide web most people are familiar with has existed.
To be honest the whole "the copyright must be defended" thing needs to be examined on it's own, but to be honest it seems to me that this is mostly an excuse used by companies when they decide to punkhammer someone and want to try and avoid upsetting the fans. The actual motivation in going after something like MLP Online is simply because companies don't want free competition with their own products if they decide to try and release in cyberspace. A free/fan funded production can oftentimes force a very high standard if your going to compete. Someone wanting to crap out a quick Free To Play (or more accuratly... microtransaction you to death) MMO based on something like MLP, which is probably on Hasbro's "to do" list would probably create something similar to what little we've seen of this game. If something on this level already exists, they have to aim higher... and that can be tricky when it comes down to free fan programmers operating out of love, against paid professionals where every hour spent making graphics and hammering code costs money. That said I feel that it's the fan creations that are supposed to force higher standards from the professionals, I think a lack of competition from fans in certain arenas has lead to the decreasing quality of online games.
I'll also say that I think people have gotten too stupid on the internet, a lot of these projects that get "raided" operated way too publically and made themselves too easy to find. It's almost like people thinking their facebook page is secure... If your going to invest hundreds or thousands of dollars and hours into a project like this, at least take the time to get server space outside of the country, set up alternative routing systems in case someone wants to try and block you, and ensure that it's as hard as possible to find out who the REAL people involved in the project are through electronic means. This latter one seems like common sense, I mean going back to the whole "Masters of Deception Vs. Legion Of Doom" fiasco from many years ago (there is a lot of information about this, and various takes on it) the guys involved were smart enough to hide their identities, while some people got outed, to this day nobody knows who Lex Luthor (leader of The Legion Of Doom) was in real life, and the bottom line is this entire thing required massive federal resources AND getting hackers to go after other hackers. With all of the borderline untracable sites out there people have set up over the years, you'd expect anyone putting in the time, effort, and resources to set up their own MMO that might get corperate attention, might consider you know... making themselves difficult to take down, and then just outlasting critics. It's one thing for Hasbro to send you a latter and threaten you with a Lawyer if they know who you are, it's quite another if they don't know who you are, your site keeps coming back every time they try and find a way to block it off, and groups like the FBI are liable to put "someone running an illicit My Little Pony Game" pretty low on their priority list especially given the amount of taxpayer money it's liable to take to deal with this, especially if the case has to go accross international boundaries.... sure none of what I'm saying is easy to set up, but we're already talking about people good enough to code their own MMO. If your not doing any real damage or actually making money, few people are going to bother to chase an annoying bug they just can't squash. After all even if you get caught in cases like this, what's going to happen, you get a couple years in prison, but Hasbro (or whomever) and the Feds will have spent millions taking action. Realizing this figures into the cost-benefit analysis of law enforcement more than you might think (IRL isn't anything like TV cop shows, DNA, computer modeling, blood splatter analysis, etc.. is all bloody expensive. A lot of cases go unsolved simply because they are deemed unworthy the resources from a limited budge... which also fuels complaints about 'poor people not getting justice' based on which cases get the most resources diverted to them).
At any rate, I'm rambling, the bottom line is that I think the case is stupid, unless MLP Online was in some way making money for it's creators, in which case it was justified. I think Hasbro is being stupid and greedy, and I think the guys who set this up had a comical lack of foresight and preparation, and also arguably gsve up far too easily.
The issue stems from when companies like Hasbro are forced to send C&D letters in order to protect their trademarks when they may or may not want to because otherwise they completely lose the trademark.Baldr said: