Hatred and Self-Indulgence in Games

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Well, with Hatred out, it stime to talk about why I personally dislike this game

It's not because of the violence itself since I've seen stuff like Evangelion or Law and Order: SVU that's much worse and I don't have an issue.

My main issue is the writing behind Hatred or rather the lack thereof. It's utterly angsty and pathetic and doesn't advance writing in games at all. It feels self-indulgent and nihilistic.

As such, I want to ask the members of the Escapist the following questions:
-Do you think that Hatred is self-indulgent and nihilistic in it's violence
-Are there examples of self-indulgent and nihilistic games elsewhere
-Do you think that writting needs to improve to be rid of self-indulgent games or do you think that gaming survives even with the presence of self-indulgence.

 

[tippy2k2]

The fact that every other entertainment industry in existence has "self-indulgent" and "nihilistic" properties leads me to believe that gaming will be just fine with games like Hatred...

I have not played Hatred and I have zero intention to play it as it just looks bad but I have zero problem with the game's existence. If the market will support it, I think it should be allowed to exist. If the market won't support it, the game will fall by the wayside and become a footnote in gaming history with Custer's Revenge and other controversial games.

 

[vledleR]

Yes, hatred is self-indulgent in its violence. I think that much is self-evident. Games like Mortal Kombat, Postal, Manhunt, and Splatterhouse do the same, just in a different context. To think that games like this "hurt" gaming is a little backwards considering this industry had the responsibility to self-regulate with the ESRB because of that type of violence.

I don't think it's at all bad encourage games to have better writing, but it shouldn't be a requirement. I go into a game with no expectations, other than functionality. Assess a game for its own strengths and weaknesses for what it is, instead of what it should be. Hatred did itself a favour by not giving the dude a story. You'd need some masterful writing to make that kind of guy sympathetic or relatable. Anything less would've made the game more distasteful imo.

 

[MysticSlayer]

-Do you think that Hatred is self-indulgent and nihilistic in it's violence

The extent of my interaction with the game is watching the trailer and watching a gameplay video that made the game look boring. As a result, I can't say much about this, but from what I've seen, yes, it is very indulgent. Isn't that what the developers said they were going for?

-Are there examples of self-indulgent and nihilistic games elsewhere

Maybe I'm missing the point, and these may not be nihilistic, but aren't a lot of (especially early) shooters basically all about seeing how much fun it could be to run around killing stuff?

-Do you think that writting needs to improve to be rid of self-indulgent games or do you think that gaming survives even with the presence of self-indulgence.

Considering that the developers have stated that they were trying to go against a lot of calls in gaming to improve writing in certain areas, I don't think we'll be free from games like Hatred. Furthermore, many games that are all about killing stuff have become classics (e.g. DOOM), so we'll likely always have these. And personally, I'm not really that opposed to the idea of occasionally having a game that is all about just going around and having fun killing stuff. Even if you don't enjoy them (even I generally don't), there are people that do enjoy them, so I don't see a problem with developers making games for these people to enjoy.

Also, this isn't to say that I don't want to see games with better writing. I love a great story in games, even if the gameplay is rather minimalistic. I'm just saying that not every game has to be going for "Story of the Year", "Character of the Year", and "Best Lore" awards.

 

[Mong0]

While I do agree that it's violence is self indulgent and nihilistic, I don't think that there's anything really wrong with that. Some games are fun specifically because they let the player revel like an amoral sociopath. As for other examples of self-indulgent games, gta and saints row come to mind. I think that postal also qualifies. Personally, I don't think that self-indulgence needs to be written out of games at all, because I don't think that it's inherently bad.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

Hatred is extremely self-indulgent, but I don't think it represents any sort of real 'problem' with games or the material that gets presented in them. It's certainly a really shallow self-indulgence, but the term itself doesn't have to mean there isn't a right way to create a game that is effective in its indulgence (not necessarily limited to violence). Some Suda 51 games, for example. Though I guess those can be debatable to some folks.

Not every game needs to be the next interactive pseudo-Shakespearean opus. Sometimes games are just good for letting off steam in a rather shallow but entertaining manner. And for a lot of people that's what they tend to be. There's nothing wrong with that, just as there's nothing wrong with a game trying to push the envelope in terms of writing or storytelling. Or presenting opportunities for discussion of social and political issues.

Personally, I think I'll take and like both. I don't see any need for an entertainment medium to "grow up," per se. Hatred is just a storm in a teacup. It hasn't done anything to move the medium forward or back. Except in the form of internet arguments, which really don't tend to have much of an effect on anything.

 

[Mutant1988]

The irony of Hatred is that it's an ultimately harmless game, since it's entire driving force is the controversy drummed up over it being 'edgy'. If you look at it closely through it's thin veil of 'I R Srs game lol', it's just pulling the same shit most of AAA has been doing for years - marketing itself directly to male gamers with the same 'Yeah, explosions! Violence! Murder! Fuck the man, play this game! Society won't approve!' tagline that's been done to death already. It scored some bonus points with everyone wringing their hands over censorship and feminism, but Call of Duty beat it to the punch a decade ago.

Bingo.

It's like the developers saw the "Your mother won't like this game" campaign EA did for Dead Space 2 and went - "Yeah, let's do that" and then called it a day.

It's not really making any kind of statement that hasn't already been made better. Postal already did the mass murder simulator years ago, Postal 2 repeated that and added a crapton of satire and jerk victims (Is it okay to kill them just because they're annoying?) on top of it and not too long ago Spec Ops the Line attacked players motivations for enjoying murdering others in video games. And GTA has always allowed you to go on a spree since the very first iteration, being just as amoral about it as Hatred but less posturing about how it's edgy and counter (Politically correct) culture for doing so.

Pissing people off isn't in and of itself a noble goal or making any kind of powerful statement. It's just them being an asshole to get attention for their mediocre looking game.

 

[zumbledum]

Well, with Hatred out, it stime to talk about why I personally dislike this game

It's not because of the violence itself since I've seen stuff like Evangelion or Law and Order: SVU that's much worse and I don't have an issue.

My main issue is the writing behind Hatred or rather the lack thereof. It's utterly angsty and pathetic and doesn't advance writing in games at all. It feels self-indulgent and nihilistic.

As such, I want to ask the members of the Escapist the following questions:
-Do you think that Hatred is self-indulgent and nihilistic in it's violence
-Are there examples of self-indulgent and nihilistic games elsewhere
-Do you think that writting needs to improve to be rid of self-indulgent games or do you think that gaming survives even with the presence of self-indulgence.

nothing wrong with self indulgent nihilism. not everything has to advance anything, i guess for me the question comes down to is the writing just plain bad, is it meant to be that cringe worthy by design or is it meant to atmospheric and immersive. and frankly i dont care enough to get the answer.

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

Well, with Hatred out, it stime to talk about why I personally dislike this game

It's not because of the violence itself since I've seen stuff like Evangelion or Law and Order: SVU that's much worse and I don't have an issue.

My main issue is the writing behind Hatred or rather the lack thereof. It's utterly angsty and pathetic and doesn't advance writing in games at all. It feels self-indulgent and nihilistic.

As such, I want to ask the members of the Escapist the following questions:
-Do you think that Hatred is self-indulgent and nihilistic in it's violence
-Are there examples of self-indulgent and nihilistic games elsewhere
-Do you think that writting needs to improve to be rid of self-indulgent games or do you think that gaming survives even with the presence of self-indulgence.

You seem to be assuming that self-indulgence and nihilism is somehow inheritantly negative thing to games and games story.

If the game can live - and some will - live by those two qualities, then it must be because people want it.
By my definition, giving people what they want is the purest form of the entertainment media and if games like Hatred provide those market, it is nothing but a contribution to the gaming as a while.

Of course, I would love to expunge some ideas from the world that I don't like, but that would only beneficial to ME(and those with same taste as I am), and probably not for the whole of the consumers.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Well, with Hatred out, it stime to talk about why I personally dislike this game

It's not because of the violence itself since I've seen stuff like Evangelion or Law and Order: SVU that's much worse and I don't have an issue.

My main issue is the writing behind Hatred or rather the lack thereof. It's utterly angsty and pathetic and doesn't advance writing in games at all. It feels self-indulgent and nihilistic.

As such, I want to ask the members of the Escapist the following questions:
-Do you think that Hatred is self-indulgent and nihilistic in it's violence
-Are there examples of self-indulgent and nihilistic games elsewhere
-Do you think that writting needs to improve to be rid of self-indulgent games or do you think that gaming survives even with the presence of self-indulgence.

<img width=200>http://cdn.meme.am/images/300x/5754965.jpg

I cringed at the number of times you used that word in a rather dubious context. I haven't actually played the game, so the protagonist may be nihilistic, or he may not, but either way you seem to be using nihilistic as a meaningless (no pun intended) buzzword.

Also, how many games really advance writing as an art form? Why is it so terrible that this one controversy-bait of a game doesn't push the medium forward in any meaningful way?

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

To address FirstNameLastName and Shanicus, I will fully confess that I know nihilisim is a completely different term from what I wanted which was to describe shallow self-indulgence. Hedonism might have worked better in retrospect

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

snip

See my addendum on the use of the term nihilism for the first part

As for the second, I am a proponent for games as art and that they are equal to film. However, for that to happen, writing quality in general needs to improve and seeing games like Hatred make me cringe.

 

[Worgen]

Its angry white boy music, the game.

 

[Zontar]

Snip

From what I've seen of the game in trailers and gameplay footage the player character being nihilistic seems to be his most definind feature.

OT: I think the game does more good for the industry as a whole then bad, if only for the fact that it brings a form of subgenre found in movies and novels into gaming which until now has existed exclusively on browser games.

 

[Weaver]

I don't find the game to be particularly violent. The writing is so cringeworthy and seems like it was written by a "12 year old edgelord" it borders on sheer parody.

The game is so fundamentally harmless I have no idea why there was such a stink about it in the first place.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

snip

See my addendum on the use of the term nihilism for the first part

As for the second, I am a proponent for games as art and that they are equal to film. However, for that to happen, writing quality in general needs to improve and seeing games like Hatred make me cringe.

I agree that games could use better writing, but I don't believe that Hatred represents a problem for the medium. All other mediums have survived terrible entries, film, music, literature, painting, architecture, everything. The dialogue in the game is cringe-worthy, but overall it's only real impact on gaming is the controversy surrounding it. Its influence on gaming as a whole will be negligible, and it will be remembered only as another instalment into the list of games people lost their minds over.

In short, it's shit, but harmless shit.

 

[Fox12]

I don't think there's anything wrong with nihilism. It's not very attractive, but it's a valid philosophy. Dark Souls, for instance, was VERY nihilistic, from the themes to the game play. The difference is that it was still well written, and it told a unique story in a new way.

Hatred doesn't do that. It's an edge lord title with no redeeming valuele whatsoever. The only people who are defending it are people who have been fooled into thinking that they're fighting censorship, or who hope to make AO games more prevalent in the market. This is silly, of course, since M games already have everything you need, and the only way to advance AO is to make something of quality. If you try to build your AO argument around Hatred... You'll lose. You have to show people that the AO rating has value. Hatred has none.

 

[Vlado]

Total Biscuit summed it up quite well in his review - it looks like a rather mediocre game as a whole, with some impressive things achieved by the team, mostly the visuals and environmental destruction. And the violence is far less graphic and in-your-face than the original trailer suggested... Nothing worse than GTA, for instance. But the game itself is nothing special. It's not great, it's not awful, it's just mediocre. May be worth the $20 if you're really into these isometric twin stick shooters, if not... wait for a discount or just pass altogether, I guess.

 

[SquallTheBlade]

snip

As for the second, I am a proponent for games as art and that they are equal to film. However, for that to happen, writing quality in general needs to improve and seeing games like Hatred make me cringe.

Why writing? Why not something more important aspect in games? Something like, I don't know, gameplay? I'd take a good gameplay over good story any day. See Tales of games for a good example. They have really bad and cringy writing but holy damn if the combat isn't fun.

Games are their own medium and films are their own. They should both do what they do best.