Have we forgotten how to be ladies and gentlemen?

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Grospoliner

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Feb 16, 2010
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Gentlemanly conduct was sexist in and of itself. The idea that anyone should conform to the ideals of someone else under the penalty of persecution is the height of dishonorable conduct and the absolute antithesis of liberty. Chivalric code is also deeply flawed as it relegates women to a subservient role.

I am sorry but if you wish to promote non-sexist behavior, then you should seek to endorse egalitarian treatment for all people.
 

Geo Da Sponge

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May 14, 2008
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Colour-Scientist said:
I'd much rather skimpy outfits and gimp suits to the dry society you're proposing.
The two are not mutually exclusive.

Corsets. Corsets for everyone.

Also, who knows more about being polite than a gimp? They get turned black and blue if they forget their manners, proper terms of address and so on...
 

ShadowsofHope

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Nov 1, 2009
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Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the any positives in the old fashioned way of "being a lady or a gentleman" towards the opposite gender. For one, the very relationship of the two terms was one that was sexist, which assumed the male was the "lord of the castle" and had the better judgment in all scenario's of life, while the female was an innocent little flower that must remain chaste until her father picks out a "suitable" man for her to enter marriage with, bear him children, fix his meals and keep his "castle" clean while he was off being a "man" in society. This was also pretty much the fundamentals of the concept of Chivalry, where courtship of the female by the male almost always came down to treating the woman as though she were a completely naive child that needed help understanding most aspects of her life, including how the men expected her to dress, how to present herself in society before their friends and colleagues without embarrassing the husband, how many children were appropriate for their marriage/how they would be raised, as well as dictating her religious, social and economic beliefs in which to quickly silence what could be a relationship in which she dared to question the beliefs of her husband, either in public or before the children. (Although, one would not argue that even slightly romanticized aspects of Chivalry like remaining courteous and thoughtful when engaging in social interaction with a woman, and doing those little things picked up over time as you get to know the woman that make her feel like you really care and respect her opinions, tastes and feelings in the relationship are not rather beneficial to keep in mind when courting a woman you like in modern times, either)

In short, our concepts of a "lady" and a "gentlemen" are purely romantic notions of love and gender tradition that we have been colored with through things such as Shakespeare and the Victorian Age, medieval tales such as Camelot and King Arthur, and.. pretty much every romantic novel written since the early 1930's. Being a real gentlemen in this modern age is simply treating women with equal respect in how they choose to live their lives, and how they choose to express themselves when interacting with society - acknowledging they are independent individuals whom can handle that without coddling them. Being a real lady in this modern age is simply the flipside for female-to-male interaction. It has nothing to do with dressing a certain way, or thinking a certain way at all.

The definition of a "slut" is not universal to each and every person whom hears and uses the word, and in which case calling someone a "slut" for doing something or wearing something you don't personally like or appreciate does not make them a slut. It makes them an individual with tastes and preferences different from you, and you really have no right to try to force them to conform to your tastes. Of course, if a woman or a man is wearing particularly suggestive clothing while in public, they really cannot get upset if people happen to look in that direction due to the suggestive nature of the clothing or body language (whether intended or not). Though no less, that ends up with the rule of basic common decency known as "look, but don't touch (unless given permission)".
 

Musashi inc

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Mar 30, 2011
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stefanbertramlee said:
The past was shit.

For everyone

Bonus shityness if you were born not a white Christain male.
Ninja'd. Also the first page or so of this thread seems really all too preoccupied with the way women are dressing. Like, REALLY too preoccupied. Ladies strutting their stuff is fine. I've actually never in my life thought to be offended by the way that anyone dresses. Except for like, KK Klan robes or Nazi uniforms. (Though I will defend their right to be ignorant in private since they are not likely to change their minds any time soon.)
I would put forth that what the world really needs is some perspective. Most of the things that people spend their days worrying about or fretting over are in fact, not all that important. Not in the grand scheme of things, & most of the time not even in the short run. Like, an hour from now. A lot of perspective and allot more of the "Golden Rule" would be marvelous. For those who don't want to Google it, The Golden rule is: treat others how you would want them to treat you.
So yeah, instead of "ye' olde times" social conventions of manners, just people remembering and acting on The Golden rule would be fine with me.
 

commiedic

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Sep 2, 2010
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At no time was social etiquette ever good lol. It was just pretend back in the victorian days like seen here.

 

stefanbertramlee

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drisky said:
stefanbertramlee said:
The past was shit.

For everyone

Bonus shityness if you were born not a white Christain male.
You aren't born Christian you know, some cultures had cast systems, but there was nothing stoping people from converting. It still sucked in the days before freedom of religion, but It wasn't a circumstance of birth.

Anyways a lady must never complain and a gentlemen must fight to the death for every insult. We can all act how we want for more then we could in the 50's. Society has gradually learned that human decency does not have to be held a strict set of standards.
I was assuming people actually beleived in thier non-Christian Gods.
 

Macgyvercas

Spice & Wolf Restored!
Feb 19, 2009
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I've been told that chivalry is dying, if not alredy dead, but I refuse to let it end entirely. As long as one person is chivalrous, it is not completely gone.

But then again, I'm one of those psychotic who still thinks that we should be living with a 19th century sense of fashion. I mean, come on! Who doesn't love those awesome suits the guys wore?
 

Wolfram23

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Mar 23, 2004
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Lower class citizens were never very classy... that hasn't changed, just the number of lower class has grown, and grown into a middle class as well which has no real history of being classy either. As for the upper class rich people, I have no idea. Maybe they are still classy? But anyway, I think people need to teach their children about respect.

Afterall:
 

siahsargus

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Jul 28, 2010
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Vrud said:
pulse2 said:
I prefer the way people looked in the old days, they looked so respectable in their fine outfits and beautiful dresses
while dying of heat exhaustion . . .

Out of curiosity, how would you feel on men in those dresses?
Or combine both styles...become a gentleperson! Wear the long dress and parasol with a ruffled shirt and silk vest with a top hat. All of the geniality, none of the sexism!

Besides the Victorian era was the most fucked up stretch of time in recorded history. The only good part of it was their dapper suits and darling dresses.
 

awesomeClaw

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WatsonTameka983 said:
I just paid $22.87 for an iPad2-64GB and my girlfriend loves her Panasonic Lumix GF 1 Camera that we got for $38.76 there arriving tomorrow by UPS. I will never pay such expensive retail prices in stores again. Especially when I also sold a 40 inch LED TV to my boss for $675 which only cost me $62.81 to buy. Here is the website we use to get it all from, PennyOrder.com
Glad to see the Captcha´s are doing their work.

OT: Frankly, how a woman decides to dress herself or her sexual appetite does not change my opinion of them. (as long as she uses protection, of course. Otherwise, she´s a moron) I have just as much respect for a woman who partakes in regular gangbangs with 20 diffrent guys as someone who lives in complete matrimony or simply doesn´t have sex. As long as they´re honest to themselves that this is what they want to do.

However, my opinion of someone immediately lowers if they start complaining that guys stare at them when they wear skimpy clothing. If you don´t want guys to look at you, don´t wear skimpy clothing. (And no, this is not "blaming the victim", because she´s not a victim. Don´t like guys looking at you? Don´t wear skimpy outfits. Period.)

And Chivalery is not dead. I hold up the door for people. I´m kind and respectful towards strangers. Isn´t that enough?
 

gbemery

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Jun 27, 2009
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pulse2 said:
Lots of sexism recently, if it isn't the big dispute about slutfest, rape or penis' being cut off, its the behaviour of sexes in general. Women demand basic respect and chivalry and men demand to not all be put into the same bracket, but do you think we've all just forgotten the basic elements of being a gentleman or a lady.
I try to be nice, but I don't as much anymore its too much damn work. I just got tired of being scorned or given the stink eye by women when I would hold a door for them. Even if I wasn't actually holding the door because she was a girl. While going to class on campus I would see a girl getting ready to come out the door I was going to go thru. So I decided to let her come out first and was holding the door. Then as she passed she said in the most snobbish tone, "I can open my own door thank you!" I wanted to slam that door in her face soo bad...but I didn't because damn it I was a gentleman.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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Chivalry still lives. I hold doors open for people. And if I trip and take a spill, someone will turn around and ask if I'm ok. Common courtesy and chivalry still live, although they ARE a lot less common than they used to be.

Then again, I live in Canada. Maybe things are different elsewhere.


Also, dressing "respectably" has nothing to do with anything. That was the social norm of the time, and it had nothing to do with the ACTUAL respectability of the person. Look at the atypical high ranking Mafia guys. Tuxedos/suits all around. Respectable clothes, but evil conniving bastards in them.

And personally, I don't give much of a crap about my appearance. I try to make sure I don't look like a total mess, but really, if someone's gonna judge me a delinquent or useless because my hair is out of place and I have a wrinkled T-Shirt and shorts, then they are way too shallow for me to want to associate with them. It's what's inside that counts.

So yeah, while things have not moved forward much over the years, they haven't really gone back either. Just sideways. We're no longer repressing our emotions and thoughts for fear of committing a fatal social faux pas, but instead, we just shout out whatever the hell we feel like saying. Not better, but not much worse either.

PS: I hate formal wear. It's uncomfortable, and pointless IMO.
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
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pulse2 said:
-Complaining about sexism by being sexist snip-
First off, ugh, I dont even know where to start.
There would be less sexism if you got to decide what women wear?
Sexism will go away if people stop being sexist, not if you decide women are more `respectable` if they wear appropriate things.
 

Blow_Pop

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Jan 21, 2009
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InterAirplay said:
aprilmarie said:
TrilbyWill said:
as soon as i read this thread i thought:
which is a hilarious situation. but is fictional. anyway, OP makes a good point. if you walk around dressed and acting like a slut, you will be treated as a slut and deserve that.
if you dress like an upper class victorian, you will be treated as such: confusion and maybe respect. also, people may think you're insane or a timetraveller (ensue hilarity) unless you go to the bar from QC.

what i don't understand then is the girls who don't dress or act like sluts who get treated as sluts. Anyone want to explain that one to me?
If a woman does something a guy close to her has trouble understanding or doesn't like, and the guy is a whiny dickhead, he'll probably label her a slut because she's not acting like his perfect little queen anymore.

I should know, I've acted like that myself. It was shameful of me, to say the least.
Does that include working as a server(waitress) to make money to put herself through school? Because that's really what I'm confused about. I had a job in which our dress code was black pants, black slip resistant shoes, and a button down tshirt that we got from work. sleeves of the shirt were almost down to my elbows and the top button was up at my collarbone and I wore a pair of black slip resistant boots that happened to also be steel toe and the guys who came in(it was a concert/banquet hall that served alcohol but it wasn't the guys drinking who were the problem) for the shows (i think my first experience with this was during an aretha franklin show) would literally treat me like i was wearing next to nothing. I've just never understood that. I wear jeans and a tshirt and still get treated like that just for walking from my car to (insert business here). Maybe its just a California guy thing where they think all of us women out here are sluts. I don't know.


OT: I've met a few guys(rare) who actually do treat me like a lady. Unfortunately they are either gay, married, or so ridiculously old that I appreciate the gesture but it does nothing for me. However I do want to marry a guy who was raised or at least knows how to be a gentleman and who will treat me like a lady. However when I say things like that I mean I want a guy who occasionally will spoil me(but not all the time cause that drives me nuts, I do like to help pay for stuff when I have the money), hold open doors(but seriously don't make me wait in the car for you to walk around to the other side I am perfectly capable of opening my own car door and getting out), gives me some semblance of respect in both public and private.....Kind of want to mix some of the older ways with some of the newer ways. Holy hell I just realized how hard that is for me to explain in typing. I had a boyfriend back in high school who insisted on giving me a rose every time he saw me but since I have an aversion to living roses(I don't know why I just do) he would go to the gas station and get me a fake one. I still have every single one he gave me. He was one of the few guys I've met who was everything I wanted but I realized it too late. He is now married and I couldn't be happier for him. He's also one of my best friends.
 

sheogoraththemad

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Feb 6, 2010
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I like the idea of all men getting back to wear a full suit all the time, but in the end everyone may choose what to wear
 

Serge A. Storms

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Oct 7, 2009
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Personally I dress like a drug dealer most of the time, it scares away people I wouldn't normally associate with while the educated eye can see that I'm clearly much too round and smell too good to be an actual dealer and/or crackhead. People that want other people to dress a certain way to present a certain image for them to perceive as having self-respect don't impress me. I have all the self-respect a person of my age and limited financial accomplishments can really expect to have, as everyone that knows me is fully aware of. If someone has deemed it necessary to judge me and came to the wrong conclusion, then judging in silence is the right way to go; otherwise I'd have to correct you.
 

rabidmidget

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Apr 18, 2008
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TrilbyWill said:
as soon as i read this thread i thought:

which is a hilarious situation. but is fictional. anyway, OP makes a good point. if you walk around dressed and acting like a slut, you will be treated as a slut and deserve that.
if you dress like an upper class victorian, you will be treated as such: confusion and maybe respect. also, people may think you're insane or a timetraveller (ensue hilarity) unless you go to the bar from QC.
I would give anything for there to be a bar like that near me, although I suppose I shouldn't complain since I'm in the same city as the Manabar.