Head and shoulders (knees and toes) above the rest: RPGs

[emberage]

What makes certain games so much better than others of the genre? I'm not looking for any one answer, but I would like to hear others opinions on the matter. In the past two weeks, I've, for the first time, played through Chrono Trigger and Planescape Torment, two games that I've heard shouted from the rooftops when I ask what people find to be the best. Next on my plate is Fallout, but if the previous games were any measure, I still won't find the answer. I *loved* both CT and PT, both contained wonderful stories, colorful characters, lasting images... but why do they sit so comfortably on the pinnacle or RPG experiences? What makes them ageless?

 

[Dr Spaceman]

As far as RPGs go, I am a fan of the Western variety as opposed to the Japanese kinds. (With the exception of Chrono Trigger. That game was great.) The timeless Western RPGs (like Baldur's Gate or Mass Effect) are great because they truly allow the gamer to take a role in the overall story.

This can happen in many different ways, it's not just in the ending. Games like Baldur's Gate and Deus Ex are great because the way that the player deals with each encounter is unique since there are so many different approaches to a given situation. What's so wonderful about these games is that the decisions made throughout the game build on each other, and by the end it seems to be very natural in the way a solution presents itself. It's almost like the player has actually become the character, which is the entire point of an RPG.

I somehow have avoided Planescape: Torment in my gaming years (still a mystery as to why) but what I think you're latching onto is the idea that the RPG is perhaps the gaming genre best suited for telling engaging stories. The storyline for Chrono Trigger, though presented in relatively crude 8-bit(?) graphics totally engrossed me in the characters and their plight. Knights of the Old Republic's story represents the best story I've ever experienced in a video game. (I literally yelled so much in my dorm room when the great twist was revealed that half of my floor came to see what was the matter.)

But look no further than Final Fantasy VII for a reason why RPGs can be ageless. Final Fantasy purists will most likely claim that it is not the best FF RPG, many would not place it in their top five. Yet, the degree to which the characters of this game have resounded with the general public is astounding.

To finally cut to the chase, every timeless game has some unique quality which people recognize and cherish. In the end, games are only timeless because people remember them.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I like Western RPG's more (though Final Fantasy is the best RPG series ever). But western RPG's are more complex and open ended and as such is easier to break. And breaking Oblivion yields an acrobatics rating of 300+ and jumping over the mages guild fence for laughs.

 

[TaborMallory]

RPGs give 70 lb (or 300 lb)nerds a chance to live a fantasy life without limits!

..although, like yahtzee said, it becomes a job after a while. You don't want to play, but you feel the absolute need to anyway.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Holy hell, guys. The OP just asked a simple question about what distinguishes certain RPGs above others. If you don't have a real opinion then go ahead and check out other boards.

Also, I don't think Yahtzee would want to be quoted in such a manner. He's very funny and makes good points in his review, but he is always very clear that he is presenting his personal point of view, not necessarily some objective standard. I like watching his reviews because whether I agree or disagree with him he speaks his mind and would want you to come up with your own viewpoint.

 

[mark_n_b]

I like Western RPG's more (though Final Fantasy is the best RPG series ever). But western RPG's are more complex and open ended and as such is easier to break. And breaking Oblivion yields an acrobatics rating of 300+ and jumping over the mages guild fence for laughs.

western RPG's are more complex and open ended? Surely you jest. They trick you into thinking game-play isn't linear by throwing in a ton of side quests and giving you sandbox styled movement (this is why the Elder Scrolls games always seem so epic) Statistics management is the marker of all WRPGs, a repeated mechanic that seems to contradict the idea of complexity.

I agree that Oblivion let's you take on more of a role than almost any other game because there is just soooo much to interact with. I can't finish an Elders Scroll game, and I never want to, it makes it seem so much more like I am the hero when the world goes on and by way of the decisions I make I find adventures to have and guilds to join and what have you. But that is about the only recent game I could give this credit to.

 

[poleboy]

What makes certain games so much better than others of the genre? I'm not looking for any one answer, but I would like to hear others opinions on the matter. In the past two weeks, I've, for the first time, played through Chrono Trigger and Planescape Torment, two games that I've heard shouted from the rooftops when I ask what people find to be the best. Next on my plate is Fallout, but if the previous games were any measure, I still won't find the answer. I *loved* both CT and PT, both contained wonderful stories, colorful characters, lasting images... but why do they sit so comfortably on the pinnacle or RPG experiences? What makes them ageless?

I don't know if they're ageless. I think Chrono Trigger has aged well, it has a rather fast-paced and intuitive combat system for its time, the characters are likable and the story is well written and emotionally engaging. While the storyline and writing of Torment is still the best in any RPG to date, I think the combat system feels a little old and clunky by now.

 

[Digitalpotato]

Also, I don't think Yahtzee would want to be quoted in such a manner. He's very funny and makes good points in his review, but he is always very clear that he is presenting his personal point of view, not necessarily some objective standard. I like watching his reviews because whether I agree or disagree with him he speaks his mind and would want you to come up with your own viewpoint.

Have you ever heard of "internet aristocracy"? They're basically people in a community who everyone respects for one reason or another and he can even say something like "You know this game that everybody likes sucked ass" and they agree with him thanks to the urge to conform or the urge to not conform and get on his good side. Because if oyu AREN'T on the good side of the aristocracy they flame the living hell out of you and their drones all join in until you leave the board, rejected. They're usually snobs that are so stuck-up even critics like Yahtzee himself would be annoyed to be around them. Obviously they're just wanting to be like Yahtzee because he's "cool" and being a critic who hates Japanese games is cool so why not conform yourself into being a Yahtzee drone? It wasn't until he compared Bioshock to System Shock 2 that everyone was saying "Oh I've been spoiled!" or "System shock 2 was better for every reason Yahtzee said...."

 

[Woe Is You]

Well bash JRPGs all you want for being linear and what not but they do tell a story.

So do most western RPGs. Does The Witcher not tell a story? Planescape: Torment? Mass Effect? Just because it took you 30 hours in Oblivion to get to the story doesn't mean all western RPGs are like Oblivion.

And my experience from a good number of JRPGs is that they have lots of cutscenes and story sequences, but...the number of cutscenes really doesn't mean the story is actually any good.

 

[peterwolfe]

i honestly think what makes a game good is how fun it is to play (duh). if a game has fun levels running high, then the graphics and voice acting and story and all that junk can go to hell for all i care.

 

[Amnestic]

Just because it took you 30 hours in Oblivion to get to the story

Oblivion had a story? I thought it was just a collection of sidequests. I know it felt like that.

 

[Woe Is You]

Just because it took you 30 hours in Oblivion to get to the story

Oblivion had a story? I thought it was just a collection of sidequests. I know it felt like that.

It did have a main plot you could choose whether you wanted to follow.

 

[Jobz]

Just because it took you 30 hours in Oblivion to get to the story

Oblivion had a story? I thought it was just a collection of sidequests. I know it felt like that.

I agree with you completely. On a completely unrelated side note (Although in a way, completely unrelated side notes are indeed related to Oblivion; Read: Random Side Quests) I sometimes feel as if I'm the only person who never liked Oblivion...

 

[Amnestic]

Just because it took you 30 hours in Oblivion to get to the story

Oblivion had a story? I thought it was just a collection of sidequests. I know it felt like that.

It did have a main plot you could choose whether you wanted to follow.

To steal someone else's amusing little tidbit:

------> The Joke



------> Your head.

My joke, in this case, was that Oblivion's storyline felt like a sidequest. The whole Martin Septim malarky was so uninspiring and enrapturing as a story that it was tedious and boring. Heck, the Dark Brotherhood was more interesting story wise for me than the main quest.

 

[Woe Is You]

Just because it took you 30 hours in Oblivion to get to the story

Oblivion had a story? I thought it was just a collection of sidequests. I know it felt like that.

It did have a main plot you could choose whether you wanted to follow.

To steal someone else's amusing little tidbit:

------> The Joke



------> Your head.

My joke, in this case, was that Oblivion's storyline felt like a sidequest. The whole Martin Septim malarky was so uninspiring and enrapturing as a story that it was tedious and boring. Heck, the Dark Brotherhood was more interesting story wise for me than the main quest.

I've seen that comment thrown seriously enough times that it really doesn't work as a joke. And the main plot I felt was pretty much around on par with your usual JRPG plot. Xenogears was the only game I've played that actually tried with the story, falling spectacularly flat on the second disc.

 

[ZantetsukenQ]

For me, Final Fantasy 7 will stand at the precipice of JRPGs. What makes it so great, for me anyway, is the whole package of characters, story and gameplay, with the obvious advantage also of being a game with loads to do.

Character wise, theres always something interesting. I admit, Cait Sith I still have a dislike for but the act at the Temple of he Ancients was a really great way to redeem the character to an extent. And it tied in wondefully with the story. The love triangle keeps things interesting, and gives the desire to see the 3 appropriate characters' flaws and merits.

The story drives the whole experience, with periods in the game where you learn a little more about each character. (Barrett in the desert prison, and Cloud/Tifa and even Sephiroth in Nibelheim). So not only are the charcters themselves interesting, but a further interest certainly develops from their individual stories as the game progresses.

Finally the gameplay meshes everything together. The Materia system is still in my eyes the most enjoyable and sucessful of the Final Fantasy ability systems (from the Final Fantasy games I've played).

So all I can really say overall is that a game has to possess all 3 of the above and excel in them to be separated from anything else. You've also got to look at who plays the game. Ofcourse an RPG fan is going to grasp the mechanics and the quirks of the game better than most, and so can appreciate them a lot more. Just look at how far the Final Fantasy 7 franchise has come, never mind just the Final Fantasy's in general.

 

[Amnestic]

The love triangle

I think you mean pentagon or...well, I'm not really sure. Spider diagram would work with Cloud in the centre.. Aeris, Tifa, Yuffie and Barret are all after Cloud's...shoes.