Head and shoulders (knees and toes) above the rest: RPGs

Recommended Videos

ZantetsukenQ

New member
Sep 25, 2008
282
0
0
Amnestic post=9.72389.761808 said:
The love triangle
I think you mean pentagon or...well, I'm not really sure. Spider diagram would work with Cloud in the centre.. Aeris, Tifa, Yuffie and Barret are all after Cloud's...shoes.
If you are counting various fan fictions and Yaoi then I undoubtedly agree :p

Ivoryagent: Opinion is opinion. :) I don't doubt that if you've played all of them there may be a sense of copy and paste, but each have their charms or so I'm told.
 

Count_de_Monet

New member
Nov 21, 2007
438
0
0
People on this board really love to pay homage to "The Story" but, as far as I can recall, every RPG I've ever played had the same general idea driving it: The world is going to end and you're the one who will save it. I'm sure I've played one or two RPG's where you weren't trying to save the world from going kablooie but I really can't remember a single one.

What truly makes an RPG are the characters and the immersion; whether or not you can identify with the characters, whether they are good, bad, funny, annoying, whatever and how well the game pulls you into the world it has created. Some games are just better at creating an atmosphere than others and in my gaming history the ones which create that unique feeling are the best.

Chrono Trigger has fairly shallow characters but an engrossing and well thought-out, detailed, and constantly changing setting. I replayed it a year or so ago and I enjoyed it but I didn't finish the game because it didn't really grab my attention after all these years.

FF6 has great characters and a great setting. It strays from typical "Magic, monsters and mayhem" and throws technology into the mix quite effectively which creates a richer and more interesting world. I also replayed that game and I loved it just as much as I did when I originally played it. The only reason I didn't finish it was I had to reformat my computer and lost the save file, the emulator and the rom and never got around to tracking it all down again...

I fully admit that FF7 is a fairly shallow copy of FF6, however, it does an excellent job of creating an engrossing world because of it's updated graphics. I felt more involved in the world around me now that my character wasn't 10 pixels shorter than a building and made of 20 different color pixels. It took the good parts of FF6 and made them more sparkly then threw in some stock teen angst characters and called it a day. And, as a previous poster said, the materia system was fantastic because it gave you control over your characters that wasn't tied to a specific path.

Oblivion is fun but I couldn't bring myself to finish the regular storyline and I got tired of fiddling with the guild missions. After you've infiltrated the same dungeon 20 times and run through your 10th oblivion plane which looks almost the same as the last three you ran through the game loses something for me. Modding is fine but I don't judge a game based on mods I judge it by it's original form and Oblivion gives you very little in it's original form that's why it needs so many mods.

For my money the most fun I've ever had playing an RPG was Star Ocean: The Second Story. The characters were fun, the setting was great, the amount of things you could do with your characters was amazing, and the battle system was so much fun. The game was active, fast-paced, had plenty of detail that you could become engrossed in or largely ignore and still play through the game and I enjoyed it greatly. Unfortunately, much like FF6 my last attempt at replaying it was foiled by my computer shooting me the bird and needing a reformat and I can't find the ISO or my original discs anywhere...
 

ZantetsukenQ

New member
Sep 25, 2008
282
0
0
Count_de_Monet post=9.72389.761879 said:
Oblivion is fun but I couldn't bring myself to finish the regular storyline and I got tired of fiddling with the guild missions. After you've infiltrated the same dungeon 20 times and run through your 10th oblivion plane which looks almost the same as the last three you ran through the game loses something for me. Modding is fine but I don't judge a game based on mods I judge it by it's original form and Oblivion gives you very little in it's original form that's why it needs so many mods.
Oblivion was great fun for a period, namely forgetting the main questlines and story and going for the Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood stuff. My main gripe with the game was the fact that the enemies levelled with you. Some people liked it I think, but I wasn't something I could grasp the point of. With set monsters and units to fight, as you go through the game, you feel a sense of progression, not only in terms of story, but also as a character. You have the ability to say, "Ok I've got to X level, I should be able to progress through to area Y. Oh wow area Z is damn tough. I ought to do some sidequests and get some gear".

This doesn't occur when the enemies level with you. While this system reduces the linearity of the game, I don't feel that that is something that the Elder scrolls series has had a problem with. I've heard of people get to really high levels and beat the game, but I also know of a friend of mine who completed the main story as a level 4 character or so he claims. This takes away the roleplay element in my eyes, but the game seems to be a huge sucess and wisely loved which is what matters I guess.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

New member
Sep 26, 2008
2,366
0
0
To put it simply, there is no one thing that makes a great RPG, great.

The first thing I feel that makes for a great RPG is the combat system. Anyone can copy/paste the original combat system of Final Fantasy and have a combat system, but what sets RPGs apart is when they find something new to do with that system. Super Mario RPG was fun because of the timed button presses which essentially let you control your crits, Chrono Trigger was fun because it was among the first RPGs where you got your weapons out right there on the field instead of cutting to a new scene to fight. And if nothing else, the fight just has to be fun to watch. Skies of Arcadia's fight system wasn't really anything too special, as an example, but the battle animations were just so fun to watch that you almost looked forward to your next fight.

The next thing that makes a good RPG is the character customization. Many RPGs could have been great had the character customization not scared-off many would-be fans. Final Fantasy 7 is about as complex as you can get without scaring-off the more main-stream audience. It was quick and simple for people who weren't worried about the perfect Materia combos, but it had enough complexity to keep people like me interested enough to spend 30 minutes planning one character's make-up. On just the opposite, you had Final Fantasy 8. Not only was the stat system much more complex in that game, but it required you to sit there and nurse your characters as they spent countless minutes doing nothing but drawing spells from enemies. The hardcore fans of the game were willing to put-up with it, but the people who wanted to just keep playing the game quickly got over-whelmed by too-strong enemies that were balanced around the assumption that you'd been power-drawing every spell you can get.

Last, but not least, you have explorable area and extra goodies. Nothing makes an RPGer feel more defeated than when he sweats his way around a dungeon to explore every nook and cranny only to discover that there was absolutely nothing to be found there... why'd the developers waste their time adding all that extra space if they didn't want me exploring it? Likewise, the reward should be worth the effort. If I'm taking a 30-minute side-trip to explore a corridor, there had better be something better than a potion at the end of the tunnel. Although I suppose this one in particular shouldn't be labeled under RPGs-only, since just about any great game needs to have some incentive for exploration.

On that note, however, I guess that the things which make a great RPG are the same as for any other game. My first point was the combat system, but every game has its own combat system that needs to be fun, they're just different systems from what you'd do in an RPG. And many non-RPGs have character customization, just usually in different ways. Music is another important aspect to any good game, as it not only makes the game fun to play, but fun to watch. Having never actually played any DMC game beyond the first half of the first game (just didn't get into it), I love watching my friend play the games for the simple fact that they have good music.

So the simplest answer to the question of what makes a great RPG: The same things that make any-other game great. It's just the semantics that determine whether you're playing a great RPG, a great Action/Adventure, or whatever.
 

Dr Spaceman

New member
Sep 22, 2008
546
0
0
Digitalpotato post=9.72389.761645 said:
Dr Spaceman post=9.72389.758743 said:
Also, I don't think Yahtzee would want to be quoted in such a manner. He's very funny and makes good points in his review, but he is always very clear that he is presenting his personal point of view, not necessarily some objective standard. I like watching his reviews because whether I agree or disagree with him he speaks his mind and would want you to come up with your own viewpoint.

Have you ever heard of "internet aristocracy"? They're basically people in a community who everyone respects for one reason or another and he can even say something like "You know this game that everybody likes sucked ass" and they agree with him thanks to the urge to conform or the urge to not conform and get on his good side. Because if oyu AREN'T on the good side of the aristocracy they flame the living hell out of you and their drones all join in until you leave the board, rejected. They're usually snobs that are so stuck-up even critics like Yahtzee himself would be annoyed to be around them. Obviously they're just wanting to be like Yahtzee because he's "cool" and being a critic who hates Japanese games is cool so why not conform yourself into being a Yahtzee drone? It wasn't until he compared Bioshock to System Shock 2 that everyone was saying "Oh I've been spoiled!" or "System shock 2 was better for every reason Yahtzee said...."
That's actually my point, only I believe you made it better than I did. I'm just disappointed when people make arguments based on supposed "authorities" without anything to back it up. If Yahtzee says RPGs are like jobs, fine, but why do YOU think that? Simply quoting someone like that may illuminate a point, but it certainly does not put the kibosh on it. (By the way, whoever started that "Word of the Day" topic is awesome. "Kibosh" is definitely a word that has re-entered my vocabulary as a result.)

What I'm trying to say is that you should state your own opinion, rather than just parrot someone else's. Even if you're wrong.
 

Digitalpotato

New member
Aug 29, 2008
113
0
0
^I did? Well thanks. :)

WhiteTigerShiro post=9.72389.762012 said:
Last, but not least, you have explorable area and extra goodies. Nothing makes an RPGer feel more defeated than when he sweats his way around a dungeon to explore every nook and cranny only to discover that there was absolutely nothing to be found there... why'd the developers waste their time adding all that extra space if they didn't want me exploring it? Likewise, the reward should be worth the effort. If I'm taking a 30-minute side-trip to explore a corridor, there had better be something better than a potion at the end of the tunnel. Although I suppose this one in particular shouldn't be labeled under RPGs-only, since just about any great game needs to have some incentive for exploration.
That's one of the things that I tend to dislike about Western RPGs and MMOs that are designed like them...I decide to go explore this area only to find that there's not really anything there. Heck if it's all the same thing like ye olde british isles (which I'm sick of seeing) or the same backgrounsd you saw in the starting area *cough*Hellgate London*cough*. I actually felt VERY disappointed in World of Warcraft when they added flying mounts and the only place I really really needed one was just to enter Tempest Keep...that and to build up my map of outland. I'd have thought there would be hidden quests or shops on floating islands or an arena that's designed to be on a big island floating in the sky but....nothing. Why'd I even spend my money on a flying mount in the first place? oh yeah...Tempest Keep. I needed that for my Karazhan Key (Which I thankfully don't need to get since only one person needs it now)

I mean heck, at least Tales of Eternia has things on the world map, and in Mario games, discovering a secret area could lead to a rare power up or a secret exit to another stage.
 

PersianLlama

New member
Aug 31, 2008
1,103
0
0
TaborMallory post=9.72389.758729 said:
RPGs give 70 lb (or 300 lb)nerds a chance to live a fantasy life without limits!

..although, like yahtzee said, it becomes a job after a while. You don't want to play, but you feel the absolute need to anyway.
That's only MMORPG's.