Health regen VS health pack pickup
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Let's be honest, with the exception of games that are designed around a survival/resource management element, regenerating health is better design.
If you are taking X damage in Y time, you're doing something wrong.
The fact is, if bullets move at bullet speeds you're not going to be able to avoid all of them, so some regeneration is necessary.
If you are taking X damage in Y time, you're doing something wrong.
The fact is, if bullets move at bullet speeds you're not going to be able to avoid all of them, so some regeneration is necessary.
Unless there's a reason the character to HAVE health that regenerates on it's own, I'd prefer health packs
KarmaTheAlligator said:
this was FC3 system, although along with health packs which heal several blocks, you also had first aid, which could be used to heal 1 or 2 at a time (depending on if you upgraded it). this meant you could hide and regen all your health with first aid, however the drawback was you could not choose to use first aid over your healthpacks (if i remember right) if they were in your inventory. personally i loved the system, although i did just upgrade first aid and survive mainly off that in the end...Ickorus said:
personally i prefer the block or shield system, using both regen and health packs, and not separated by difficulty, but i would welcome a game where the regen does more at lower difficulties, but not so keen on separating them entirely
In the Batman games (and some others I cant recall right now) your health would always regenerate to max after combat so basicly every combat would be against a determined amount of hit points. During combat it wouldnt regenerate.Father Time said:
OT: Some games are starting to do that and I quite like it, it forgives the player for taking a first hit but if the player gets cocky the other bullets will have more permanent consequences. Been playing Borderlands 2 now and it does that, health can only renenerate through medkits while the shield regenerates normally.
There's HP regen that's done well, see Deus Ex Human Revolution.
Also i wouldn't have a problem with "out of combat" regen, but with out of combat i mean really after one encounter. Just hiding behind a rock for 2-3sec to get full hp is just idiotic.
Maybe developpers should take a look at 4th Edition D&D and their combat system. You can spend "Heal surges" (of which you only have a limited amount) between fights to heal your for 25% hp per surge.
During combat there are some spells that heal your or allow you to spend a healing surge in combat.
That combination allows me as the GM to craft a chain of encounters where i can be sure my PC's are able to manage all of them if they manage their Healing Surges/Heals/Pots correctly.
But currently? I'd prefer HP management before regeneration, but i maybe very biased because the biggest chunk of my games are RPGs, and even if they get more shootier (Fallout, Borderlands) nowadays HP/Heal management is a important part of RPG's.
I'd definitly prefer Halflife over any other shooter since HL2 was released and the HP system is a big part of it.
Also i wouldn't have a problem with "out of combat" regen, but with out of combat i mean really after one encounter. Just hiding behind a rock for 2-3sec to get full hp is just idiotic.
Maybe developpers should take a look at 4th Edition D&D and their combat system. You can spend "Heal surges" (of which you only have a limited amount) between fights to heal your for 25% hp per surge.
During combat there are some spells that heal your or allow you to spend a healing surge in combat.
That combination allows me as the GM to craft a chain of encounters where i can be sure my PC's are able to manage all of them if they manage their Healing Surges/Heals/Pots correctly.
But currently? I'd prefer HP management before regeneration, but i maybe very biased because the biggest chunk of my games are RPGs, and even if they get more shootier (Fallout, Borderlands) nowadays HP/Heal management is a important part of RPG's.
I'd definitly prefer Halflife over any other shooter since HL2 was released and the HP system is a big part of it.
Health regen isn't inherently "easier." If you get hurt, you're at low health for that predetermined amount of time that can increase when you get hit because it resets leading to tense moments when you're trying to find safety. Consequently if there are health pick ups, you're health is back up instantly, and if you see a health pick up nearby you can afford to be more reckless.
To be honest, I find games with regenerating health more difficult; not because the games are harder but because there always seems to be something broken about the damage ratios.
Maybe it's just me, but I found when playing games like Spec Ops: The Line I could be a total bullet sponge one minute and then die in three hits the next. Uncharted also had this problem, which made just about every fight in the game an utter chore because you never knew if it was safe to go all guns-blazing or if moving from cover would instantly kill you.
I find I can be much more tactical when I can see my health on the screen and make judgements based on that, rather than hoping I won't be arbitrarily killed because the enemy switched to hollow-point rounds when I wasn't looking.
Maybe it's just me, but I found when playing games like Spec Ops: The Line I could be a total bullet sponge one minute and then die in three hits the next. Uncharted also had this problem, which made just about every fight in the game an utter chore because you never knew if it was safe to go all guns-blazing or if moving from cover would instantly kill you.
I find I can be much more tactical when I can see my health on the screen and make judgements based on that, rather than hoping I won't be arbitrarily killed because the enemy switched to hollow-point rounds when I wasn't looking.
Reading some of these comments, I think Far Cry 3 did have a good system where you would heal naturally, and there were default healing that took a little longer, yet also having health packs that could heal you a lot quicker and sometimes more fully. I also like what worked in Deus Ex: Human Revolution, where you could heal over time, but using actual medpacks could be useful in a tense situation.
What I like about having health regeneration is that after completing a major battle there is usually some breathing period. The developer does this to give the player a break from the action, and it serves the game over time by adding some pacing. With health regeneration this added breathing period becomes a time where the player can be rewarded by having their health at least be replenished. However, this health regeneration should be kept at a slow rate so the players do not become reliant on it, and need to think and plan combat carefully. In these moments though, medpacks could be incorporated as a reward for exploration, and in this instance the medpack becomes something that is literally a lifesaver. If healing was rapid, the medpack would seem like just a time-saver adding convenience, but if you might die without a quick health boost the medpack becomes something that the player will be thankful for. So, a system that has regenerative health that would heal in these relaxed moments, while having rewarding medpacks in tense moments would work.
Of course there are games where this wouldn't work. If combat isn't a big deal then have regenerative health. Take Portal vs. Half Life 2. Portal is played for the puzzles and humor. Half Life is played for the combat and story. People are not playing Portal for the engaging combat, and while having health there gives incentive to be careful when maneuvering dangerous areas - which is part of the challenge in the puzzle - adding medpacks would be unnecessary. Just have health replenish to get them right back into the game. Or for a stealth game. The point of good stealth is to wait and not engage - or do so as little as possible. Having health regeneration might be unnecessary if challenge is the idea, while medpacks would reward players that do make a mistake, but then think to explore the environment.
What I like about having health regeneration is that after completing a major battle there is usually some breathing period. The developer does this to give the player a break from the action, and it serves the game over time by adding some pacing. With health regeneration this added breathing period becomes a time where the player can be rewarded by having their health at least be replenished. However, this health regeneration should be kept at a slow rate so the players do not become reliant on it, and need to think and plan combat carefully. In these moments though, medpacks could be incorporated as a reward for exploration, and in this instance the medpack becomes something that is literally a lifesaver. If healing was rapid, the medpack would seem like just a time-saver adding convenience, but if you might die without a quick health boost the medpack becomes something that the player will be thankful for. So, a system that has regenerative health that would heal in these relaxed moments, while having rewarding medpacks in tense moments would work.
Of course there are games where this wouldn't work. If combat isn't a big deal then have regenerative health. Take Portal vs. Half Life 2. Portal is played for the puzzles and humor. Half Life is played for the combat and story. People are not playing Portal for the engaging combat, and while having health there gives incentive to be careful when maneuvering dangerous areas - which is part of the challenge in the puzzle - adding medpacks would be unnecessary. Just have health replenish to get them right back into the game. Or for a stealth game. The point of good stealth is to wait and not engage - or do so as little as possible. Having health regeneration might be unnecessary if challenge is the idea, while medpacks would reward players that do make a mistake, but then think to explore the environment.
Its been mentioned before, but Halo Combat Evolved, Halo 3: ODST, and Halo REACH used a hybrid of the two.
They both has a system where you had a layer of shield/ armour, which would regenerate when you're not being shot, and then a health system underneath that would need health kits to replenish. I always thought that this was a good system, as the shields fit into the lore of the franchise, and you didn't just suddenly just get full health once again just by sitting there with wolverine-like powers.
All-in-all I dont mind regenerating health as long as its justified within the lore, such as the Mark VI armour in Halo 2/3/4 has inbuilt biofoam injectors inside of the armour which removed the need of med-kits as they automatically sealed the wound to stop the bleeding, at least Bungie/ 343i took the time for this mechanic to make sense instead of just sucking on your thumb and just blowing the bullets out like in Call of Duty and Battlefield to some extent.
They both has a system where you had a layer of shield/ armour, which would regenerate when you're not being shot, and then a health system underneath that would need health kits to replenish. I always thought that this was a good system, as the shields fit into the lore of the franchise, and you didn't just suddenly just get full health once again just by sitting there with wolverine-like powers.
All-in-all I dont mind regenerating health as long as its justified within the lore, such as the Mark VI armour in Halo 2/3/4 has inbuilt biofoam injectors inside of the armour which removed the need of med-kits as they automatically sealed the wound to stop the bleeding, at least Bungie/ 343i took the time for this mechanic to make sense instead of just sucking on your thumb and just blowing the bullets out like in Call of Duty and Battlefield to some extent.
Which type of health pick up's are we talking about here.
Are we talking:
1, Medkits laying around FPS style = You get injured you touch pick up, you get healed. Pick up does nothing if you are at full health.
2, Potions in inventory = You find pick up put pick in inventory, you manually deploy pick up to heal you when you are injured.
Because I hate option 1, it just means I have to backtrack and backtrack and backtrack OCD style to keep myself healed. It's not so harder as it is annoying.
Option 2 is fine with me, I'd take that style over health regen, though it would depend on the game.
Are we talking:
1, Medkits laying around FPS style = You get injured you touch pick up, you get healed. Pick up does nothing if you are at full health.
2, Potions in inventory = You find pick up put pick in inventory, you manually deploy pick up to heal you when you are injured.
Because I hate option 1, it just means I have to backtrack and backtrack and backtrack OCD style to keep myself healed. It's not so harder as it is annoying.
Option 2 is fine with me, I'd take that style over health regen, though it would depend on the game.
this is exactly why i like the hybrid system best, you don't do the "sit and reload 5 times" to figure out which path/area is best, you just roll with the flow and can take a chance every once in a while OR survive the encounter just fine with that sniper in a hidden spot that you can't see/aren't meant to see.Shpongled said:
as long as the developer takes the health system they chose into effect, i don't see any system being "easier", i've beaten plenty of older shooters just fine with health only systems while struggled just as much on plenty of regenerating/hybrid systems, which is all due to how the dev sets up the scenarios/battles.
as mentioned before, due to just wanting the game to flow, i generally prefer the hybrid system, and OCCASIONALLY regen if it is handled just right.
Games with static health aren't automatically harder than those with regenerating health, nor are they better. On Veteran difficulty Call of Duty games, not only does your health regenerate VERY slowly, it'd take no more than two pistol bullets to put you down. It's actually very rare that you'll sit and wait for your health to come back, because you're not likely to survive the encounter.
Games WITH static health usually allow you to take more hits. Take Nazi Zombies and Dead Island as examples - two hits from a zombie in the former, and you're down. In the latter, you can take so much more punishment, giving you the space to get away from your attacker and find health.
On a similar note, with medkit games you can flee combat and go back to where you saw health earlier on, then turn around and butcher your pursuers. In a game with regenerating health, your only option is to keep running and hope no stray bullets hit you.
Of course, the tone of the post didn't really imply you'd considered this, so I hope it helps you be a little more open minded and not treat the popular game as beneath you.
Games WITH static health usually allow you to take more hits. Take Nazi Zombies and Dead Island as examples - two hits from a zombie in the former, and you're down. In the latter, you can take so much more punishment, giving you the space to get away from your attacker and find health.
On a similar note, with medkit games you can flee combat and go back to where you saw health earlier on, then turn around and butcher your pursuers. In a game with regenerating health, your only option is to keep running and hope no stray bullets hit you.
Of course, the tone of the post didn't really imply you'd considered this, so I hope it helps you be a little more open minded and not treat the popular game as beneath you.
I've always preferred health pick ups to health regen in just about every single genre where it realistically is an option. The idea of automatic regeneration just removes some of the tactical nature of health management. That said, it isn't impossible to combine both systems. However, it is still basically dumbing it down by having any part of your health regenerate automatically.
On the topic of FPS games. The primary reason I see for regenerating health in most of them nowdays is that they are almost entirely linear. The idea of running around picking up health and staying stocked up doesn't really work. You just go through a narrow pathway and fight enemies that spawn from no where. In this case, regenerating health is almost the better option. Especially since it is more of a shooting gallery.
If you are talking old school FPS games where you are exploring sprawling open ended levels, item pick ups are far more interesting.
In the end though, I am extremely biased because shooters that railroad me into one direction absolutely put me to sleep.
On the topic of FPS games. The primary reason I see for regenerating health in most of them nowdays is that they are almost entirely linear. The idea of running around picking up health and staying stocked up doesn't really work. You just go through a narrow pathway and fight enemies that spawn from no where. In this case, regenerating health is almost the better option. Especially since it is more of a shooting gallery.
If you are talking old school FPS games where you are exploring sprawling open ended levels, item pick ups are far more interesting.
In the end though, I am extremely biased because shooters that railroad me into one direction absolutely put me to sleep.
Whatm old school shooters are we talking about with sprawling open ended levels? I'm sure there were some but i don't remeber playing any, at least any more than i do now. I do remember a lot of back-tracking to pick up health packs that i'd run past half a level a go because i didn't need them then though.Clive Howlitzer said:
I don't think of having at least some sort of regenerating health/shield as "dumbing down". As others have pointed out you can still have difficult games with regeneration, you just balance the game slightly differently to compensate. And even if the difficulty cap might not be quite as high as non-regenerating health, it can be equally as fun. Getting stuck after an awkward checkpoint after an unlucky grenade or some such just made the rest of the level until the next health pack incredibly tedious on high difficulties.
As with most things in life, i think a happy medium between the two extremes is the best bet overall, unless you're aiming to create a very specific experience, eg survival horrors, where health and resource management is a core aspect of the atmosphere and immersion of the game, rather than merely necessity to continue the game, or CoD, where it's all about constant action and explosions and EXTREME and so on, not slow, meticulous resource management.
Nope. Health regen only serves to enhance an experience where combat isn't the main goal: I.E. Portal. In a shooter regenerating health (when it isn't a special ability) is just frustrating, it kills the flow and pace of a game. Part of the reason Half Life 2 has endured as a classic game is that it embraced that. There is no greater thrill than clearing out a room of enemies when your lungs are filled with blood and one shot could kill you.
Uh, STALKER has health regen. It's extremely slow (it's more like several minutes even with artifacts and suits to enhance the rate of regen), but still exists.Guy from the 80 said:
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I like it when games operate pretty much like STALKER, where there's ultra slow health regen, and the medkits take time to patch you up. It makes you think more about what you're doing or at least makes you think more tactically with your items and health (especially if you have weight limits and the medkits take a decent amount of weight).
To this day I still enjoy and prefer the more traditional FPS health pack than the ever more common regenerative health system. Halo is my go-to example of how a traditional FPS health system should work. I really enjoyed having a regenerative shield that would take the majority of damage and the health bars as not only a last resort but an indicator of how "close" I was to actually dying. It provided an additional sense of danger knowing that if your shields went down it was only going to take 1 or 2 more shots and then you'd be dead or trying to/being forced to engage enemies knowing there was a medkit in the area or nearby. Lastly the system worked very well hand in hand within the story and narrative of the game world because at least in Halo both the MJOLNIR shield system and the health kits or Bio-foam are explained very well in the Halo books, (granted it's explained in the game but nowhere near as well as the books which is usually the case).
Today's traditional regenerative health system that's found in FPS games like Medal of Honor, any CoD game, Rage, Crysis, Brink, Homefront, Battlefield etc... is by comparision to me personally at least, a complete joke. I think it can literally be summed up as the OP said "suck on your passifier", for 10 seconds while the magical space ponies collectively dance around your body and boost your health spirit back into the highly coveted bullet sponge territory. Regenerative health at is more often than not kind of a narrative disconnect in my mind as it's hardly if ever explained beyond "You've taken damage! Take cover to regenerate health!!!". That said, I wouldn't go so far to say that I'm 100% against regenerative health. Games like Mass Effect 2 did a great job in that regard because (from what I rememeber), the health system would only partially regenerate when you weren't taking fire and/or when your shields were recharging and the whole narrative aspect was (kind of like Halo), explained within the game's Codex (Medi-gel anyone?), or Fallout 3 where if you stepped on a landmine for instance your foot would get crippled and unless you had some food which would regenerate your heath but at a much slower rate compared to if you were to use a medkit (whatever those things were called).
TLDR: Regenerative Health sucks, medkits are awesome.
-Hawk
Today's traditional regenerative health system that's found in FPS games like Medal of Honor, any CoD game, Rage, Crysis, Brink, Homefront, Battlefield etc... is by comparision to me personally at least, a complete joke. I think it can literally be summed up as the OP said "suck on your passifier", for 10 seconds while the magical space ponies collectively dance around your body and boost your health spirit back into the highly coveted bullet sponge territory. Regenerative health at is more often than not kind of a narrative disconnect in my mind as it's hardly if ever explained beyond "You've taken damage! Take cover to regenerate health!!!". That said, I wouldn't go so far to say that I'm 100% against regenerative health. Games like Mass Effect 2 did a great job in that regard because (from what I rememeber), the health system would only partially regenerate when you weren't taking fire and/or when your shields were recharging and the whole narrative aspect was (kind of like Halo), explained within the game's Codex (Medi-gel anyone?), or Fallout 3 where if you stepped on a landmine for instance your foot would get crippled and unless you had some food which would regenerate your heath but at a much slower rate compared to if you were to use a medkit (whatever those things were called).
TLDR: Regenerative Health sucks, medkits are awesome.
-Hawk
A lot of games do this, making a composite of health packs and health regen. It works to varying degrees.
Just Cause 2 has health that regenerates to certain points (say, 15% higher than your most greivous injury), some Halo games had a regenerating shield that protected your main health, Battlefield 3 has a really unreliable health regeneration system but health kits get the job done quickly, Farcry 3 had really slow health regen that works in between encounters but is better healed with health kits, Team Fortress 2's Medic has slowly regenerating health to make him survive without the need of health packs but is by no means a life saver --
I think they all work in their own special way. Most of the time, it works like this: Health regeneration will bring you back to full health in between fights without scrambling for health kit drops from allies or finding health kits, but health regen does nothing to help you survive in the midst of a fight. I like it in some shooters that are kind of open, mainly multiplayer games or sandbox ones, but strictly linear ones should stick to health packs.
Just Cause 2 has health that regenerates to certain points (say, 15% higher than your most greivous injury), some Halo games had a regenerating shield that protected your main health, Battlefield 3 has a really unreliable health regeneration system but health kits get the job done quickly, Farcry 3 had really slow health regen that works in between encounters but is better healed with health kits, Team Fortress 2's Medic has slowly regenerating health to make him survive without the need of health packs but is by no means a life saver --
I think they all work in their own special way. Most of the time, it works like this: Health regeneration will bring you back to full health in between fights without scrambling for health kit drops from allies or finding health kits, but health regen does nothing to help you survive in the midst of a fight. I like it in some shooters that are kind of open, mainly multiplayer games or sandbox ones, but strictly linear ones should stick to health packs.