Heath Ledger's Joker Theory

[chadachada123]

The thing about the Joker, as many have said, is that he doesn't need an origin story.

While I think that something related to the mob and his wife may be the *most-likely* explanation for his complete insanity, I'd prefer Nolan to just leave it completely in the dark, as an explanation isn't required and may even make his moments less impactful.

 

[Captain Pirate]

I always preffered the whole 'nobody knows' Joker origin. It gave him an edge over batman seeing as they both had the superpower to 'get away with it'.

Yeah, this.
Having him as this complete nothing worked.
The theory is alright, but I'm pretty sure there was no hidden intention; he's just a total madman with no rules at all, the exact opposite of Batman.

 

[Thaluikhain]

But, then again, could be, the movie requires a massive amount of not-thinking on anyone's part. Dye your hair green, paint your face white, and the police are utterly helpless to even notice you most of the time, it seems. Stupid criminal magic powers.

Sounds like you didn't pay very good attention to the movie. They made a pretty big deal out of the fact that, in the movie, the cops had nothing on him. They couldn't find any documentation on him whatsoever. They couldn't find photos, he had no ID, his costume was all custom-made with raw cloth and materials that were pretty much untraceable, etc. He even managed to damage his fingerprints so they couldn't use those, either. So for all intents and purposes, he didn't exist. It's not that they couldn't tell who he was, it was that the cops had absolutely no formal way of recognizing him. The records just weren't there.

So? That's all very well once they've caught him and are charging him, but when he's running around the city and everyone is looking for him, nobody can see him?

 

[Something Amyss]

Or maybe the Joker is the real good guy and batman can't take not being the hero.

Or maybe Batman was indoctrinated by Reapers and the Joker represents his own scarred psyche.

Did you just spoil ME3 for me?

Nah, those aren't plot points for the actual game.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

There's really no way to explain Joker's motives or anything else. He is, as has been said, an Agent of Chaos. For various reasons and/or various ways he simply is what he is. Batman has made more than one attempt to try and get a sense of his thought-process, going so far as to lock himself in an isolation chamber and have a psychotic breakdown. Even THAT wasn't enough, to the point that Joker taunts him about it...

"You think it all breaks down into symbolism and structures and hints and clues? No Batman, that's just Wikipedia. You actually believed all it would take is a few chemicals, a couple of days of a drug-induced isolation and a cheap little nervous breakdown and you'd have ME all figured out? Like there was some rabbit-hole you could follow me down to understanding? HAH!"

The explanation about some men wanting to watch the world burn is probably the best concept for why Joker does what he does. Perhaps some kind of ultra-nihilism, but that's pure speculation. The bottom line is that he's an archetype, he's just enough character to be a character, but he's....well, to quote Spongebob of all people: "2% evil, 98% hot gas" in a way. He doesn't have a pinned-down personality or past and that's what makes him so versatile as a villainous construct. It's why he's lasted for so long in a semi-consistent way. Anyone can put words in his mouth because as long as it sounds rather mad and batman-obsessed, it never feels all that out of character. But such a lack of characterization also makes it difficult to see things like motives.

At one point I actually entertained the notion that the Joker was an Internet Troll before Internet Trolls existed. It makes sense in a way, but at the end of the day that's only because his character is so....loose...so to speak, that almost any motive or aspect of a personality can fit him.

 

[Thaluikhain]

So? That's all very well once they've caught him and are charging him, but when he's running around the city and everyone is looking for him, nobody can see him?

When exactly weren't they trying to stop him? The cops were actively pursuing him the entire length of the film. Did you miss the giant SWAT raid on the under-construction skyscraper? Or the fact that Gordon actually falsifies his own death for the sole purpose of creating an intricate plan to capture the Joker while he's out there trying to attack Harvey Dent's security escorts? How about the various scenes in which the cops are actively involved in operations to clear buildings and evacuate the civilians in danger of being blown up by one of Joker's bomb threats? The police is involved throughout the entire movie in various attempts to capture him or to mitigate the damage he's trying to do. Heck, they even successfully capture him at one point, but the Joker manages to outwit them because he knew their policies so well and could take advantage of them. Not to mention the cops were also spending a lot of their manpower on trying to stop him from blowing up several buildings and murdering hundreds or thousands of people. That sort of thing tends to occupy a lot of your focus too.

It really just sounds like you weren't paying any attention to the film at all. The cops show up on-screen in one form or another arguably more often than Batman himself does, which speaks volumes about how well the effects of Gotham's law enforcement was integrated into the story. They weren't just "there", they actually had a pretty massive role in the film. To imply that the cops were never bothering to go after the Joker and just never noticed him is provably false. >_>

That's all very well and giood, only it's got nothing to do with what I'm saying.

Again, every single person in the entire city knows what the Joker looks like, and yet nobody ever spots him unless he goes out of his way for them to do so.

[small]I would add, though, that the police might possibly have tried actually using their weapons when Dent's convoy is attacked. Gordon points on at the Joker, and someone on the helicopter fiddles with theirs before it flies exactly at the right altitude on the right street to crash into the cable.[/small]

 

[Mr.PlanetEater]

Dye your hair green, paint your face white, and the police are utterly helpless to even notice you most of the time, it seems.

Marvel as I remove my spectacles and become SUPERMAN.

But Superman's DC!

Still a superhero, same rules apply.

As much lack of logic as you could possibly crayon in.

Ohohohohohoh clever one boys, clever one!

As for the Joker having some sort of ulterior motive, yeah I don't think that matches up with his already defined 'I'm just going to dick with everyone I can for the giggles' persona. But, then again, even that seems a little too black and white for the Joker. :/

 

[SajuukKhar]

Or maybe Heath Ledger is just a terrible joker?

 

[Craorach]

Darn you beat me to it.

The Joker is aware that he is not real.

Imagine how maddening that revelation would be?

I like to think his reaction is what a lot of folks would do if they found out they actually were created from dust by someone else for lulz.

Just curious, but do you have a source for this? That sounds like a really interesting idea.

That's all very well and giood, only it's got nothing to do with what I'm saying.

Again, every single person in the entire city knows what the Joker looks like, and yet nobody ever spots him unless he goes out of his way for them to do so.

I'm pretty sure its actually rather easy to vanish within a city, especially if you're not wanting to be spotted and not using things like mobile phones and credit cards.

Hell, walk down the street with a long coat or a hoodie on, and nobody will probably even notice you.

Having such a high profile public persona would actually make it easier for joker to hide. All he needs to do is change his look or wear a coat and hat and nobody will notice, cos they're all looking for the crazy guy in a weird suit.

 

[Kyrian007]

Darn you beat me to it.

The Joker is aware that he is not real.

Imagine how maddening that revelation would be?

I like to think his reaction is what a lot of folks would do if they found out they actually were created from dust by someone else for lulz.

Just curious, but do you have a source for this? That sounds like a really interesting idea.

It's actually really subtle, but in the comics there is kind of a running theme/gag where after committing a crime the Joker will take a bow. Most of those instances happen when the police or Batman arrive on the scene and it could be chalked up to either the police or Batman being the point of view and the Joker performing for their benefit. But there are several instances where the Joker will take his bow, when no one is around to see it. Also at those times he is oriented toward the viewer. They carried this over into the 90's animated series by adding 4th wall breaks and soliloquies for the Joker, but no other character. The idea being that: part of his psychosis involves him imagining that he is on a superhero cartoon show, and/or being aware that he actually IS on a superhero cartoon show.

 

[direkiller]

Um, you know the part where he visits the mob bosses, and he's got a whole stack of grenades?

If he wants to get rid of them, he can stay outside and send the grenades in.

But, then again, could be, the movie requires a massive amount of not-thinking on anyone's part. Dye your hair green, paint your face white, and the police are utterly helpless to even notice you most of the time, it seems. Stupid criminal magic powers.

remember this is the same world that glasses keep people from figuring out who you are

stupid is a DC given

 

[SajuukKhar]

remember this is the same world that glasses keep people from figuring out who you are

stupid is a DC given

This is a universe were Batman has put Joker in Arkham how many times?
and he has gotten out how many times?
and Batman STILL puts him in Arkham?

I swear the "heroes" of DC do everything to ensure the villains escape.

 

[Craorach]

Darn you beat me to it.

The Joker is aware that he is not real.

Imagine how maddening that revelation would be?

I like to think his reaction is what a lot of folks would do if they found out they actually were created from dust by someone else for lulz.

Just curious, but do you have a source for this? That sounds like a really interesting idea.

It's actually really subtle, but in the comics there is kind of a running theme/gag where after committing a crime the Joker will take a bow. Most of those instances happen when the police or Batman arrive on the scene and it could be chalked up to either the police or Batman being the point of view and the Joker performing for their benefit. But there are several instances where the Joker will take his bow, when no one is around to see it. Also at those times he is oriented toward the viewer. They carried this over into the 90's animated series by adding 4th wall breaks and soliloquies for the Joker, but no other character. The idea being that: part of his psychosis involves him imagining that he is on a superhero cartoon show, and/or being aware that he actually IS on a superhero cartoon show.

I think that's awesome.... but I suddenly picture Joker as less of a "force of chaos" and more of "ultimate troll".

 

[direkiller]

remember this is the same world that glasses keep people from figuring out who you are

stupid is a DC given

This is a universe were Batman has put Joker in Arkham how many times?
and he has gotten out how many times?
and Batman STILL puts him in Arkham?

I swear the "heroes" of DC do everything to ensure the villains escape.

I think Arkham gives you a free Latte when you give them 10 crooks
I hear it has a nice revolving door too

 

[MetalMagpie]

I'm sorry but it's kind of bothering me; using the apostraphe in the title in that way means that I thought this post was going to be about a special theory Heath ledger had about the Joker.

Yeah, I thought the same. I was wondering if he said something interesting about the character in an interview.

Before he - you know - died.

 

[Bertylicious]

I'm sorry but it's kind of bothering me; using the apostraphe in the title in that way means that I thought this post was going to be about a special theory Heath ledger had about the Joker.

Yeah, I thought the same. I was wondering if he said something interesting about the character in an interview.

Before he - you know - died.

*Raises arms in the air* Yesss! Legitimate beef!

Do I get a special Biggie Smalls badge?

 

[Lugbzurg]

Um, you know the part where he visits the mob bosses, and he's got a whole stack of grenades?

If he wants to get rid of them, he can stay outside and send the grenades in.

But, then again, could be, the movie requires a massive amount of not-thinking on anyone's part. Dye your hair green, paint your face white, and the police are utterly helpless to even notice you most of the time, it seems. Stupid criminal magic powers.

They may be of some use... for now...

 

[iLazy]

I like to think that he just wants B-man all to himself, so he decided to kill the competition.

Just kidding. Joker's insane and does those things because he can. "One day he'll decided not to kill you because he likes your shoelaces, the next day, he'll kill you because he likes your shoelaces."