Hentai Collector Sentenced to Jail Over "Obscene" Material

[Hussmann54]

I can sort of see the govs way on all this. That stuff is just a portal for people to start doing that stuff for real. I have seen it before.

the things you own, end up owning you- Tyler Durden

So playing GTA will make me a murderer? NOW I KNO!!! /sarcasm

You dont need to write "Sarcasm" out. Im pretty good at picking it out after only a few months on these forums. Oh and "Kno" has a "W" at the end.

Back on subject. He did mail order the stuff so he is guilty. End of argument, and yea they are going to seize it, technically its contraband and they take that stuff.

And technically, Scopes broke the law against teaching evolution in his biology class, so he lost his case.

Yes, he broke the law. That's not the issue. The issue is that the law is quite stupid and the punishment for breaking it doesn't even come close to matching the crime.

And I would like to point out how the media desensitizes people. GTA is considered so run of the mill that it makes murder look like no big deal, or at least belittle it to the point that saying its "just a game" is a legit argument.

That is a legit argument. There's no causal connection between violence and video games.

As for this dude, that's just pathetic. Anime porn? Go out and get a life. Who knows maybe getting canned will make him do just that when he get released. And why are you people crying about his life getting "ruined"? Its the law and he broke it. Cause > Effect.....

You forgot the bestiality. You know, while you're deriding other peoples' tastes.

And we're crying about his life getting "ruined" because of a little thing called "disproportionate retribution." You don't execute people for parking violations, why the hell would you sentence someone to half a year in jail, three years of non-subsidized psych evaluation, and five years of probation on a first-time "offender" for something genuinely harmless?

See the thing about the "law being dumb" (For lack of a better title that I dont feel like thinking up) is that in a self serving society like the one we have become, everyone thinks it should be done their way. If you can live within the system, stop trying to change it and just get out so others dont have to hear you cry about every little thing that doesnt go YOUR way......

As for porn: I think its a pitiful degradation of man kind no matter what "Form" it takes. Those people are never in "love". Its their problem if they cant keep it in their pants.
Im not taking a shot at peoples "taste", Im taking aim at that entire "Sense" all together

There is a casual connection to the video game violence argument. Go study up on your psychology. Hobbies, like video games for instance, tend to effect our social reactions on levels most dont even realize at the time.

I don't know about you, but the thing you just complained about is called DEMOCRACY. It's the opposite of a dictatorship, look it up, heck you might like it.

Also porn isnt supposed to be about people in love, sex doesnt always have to be about love, it can just be for fun, stop being such a grumpy bastard. And yes, violence in games is "just a game" because that's what it is, a game.

all I heard was "WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Im the Outspoken kid! WAAAAAAHHHHHHHH....." ugghhh.. you didnt counter any argument. just kinda skirted around them. The DEMOCRACY is based on what a group of people want, not what elvor0 wants. quit crying because you think the system is stacked against you.... alright fine, go ahead and troll me for my opinions you hypocrites. I just wanted to state what I thought but noooooooo, cuz it isnt popular you shoot it down......

 

[Canton]

Technically he wasn't charged for possession but for transporting the obscene material using "interstate commerce"

Simple possession of obscene material cannot be criminalized under the "right to privacy" of the 4th amendment of the U.S constitution.
So anyone is free to own obscene material in private, they're just not allowed to use "interstate commerce" to acquire said material.

So if he had gone to Japan himself and bought some there, then brought it back he would be fine?

Commercial airline/ship transport can still be classified under "interstate commerce" so. . . no.

Ah so, if he builds his own boat, he's fine!

That or make his hentai himself. He could produce the most offensive, disgusting, and morally reprehensible imagery in the entire universe but as long as he keeps it private and within the state, he's untouchable.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

This is why the clever pervert just googles his hentai doujinshi.

 

[Heathrow]

Oh I wasnt trying to invoke his opinions. I just thought it an appropriate comment to the thought of owning and collecting this stuff. When I said that, some guy was like "So Playing GTA will make me a killer?" the problem is that it doesnt inherently make you do those things, it just makes it more justifiable in your mind.

Yea I kinda see your point on how it doesnt connect, but it does in a sense of how we do something rather than what we do.

EDIT: I have a post further up on this page expanding on it.

The problem is the quote isn't appropriate and is, in fact, slightly destructive to an argument made from ethos as it puts your perceptiveness into question.

That said, I can understand where your opinion comes from. There is very likely to be a causal link for paedophilia as well as a likely genetic link. The problem is we haven't identified a source in either of those categories; it's very dangerous to stand around pointing fingers at various behaviors and labeling them as causes. It distracts from the serious attempts being made to understand what instigates this horrible behavior.

What we've learned over the years is that pornography and fantasy are an outlet rather than a cause of deviant behavior and since hentai, unlike child pornography, doesn't harm anyone in it's creation it is probably the best way for a paedophile to deal with his urges short of castrating himself.

To that extent it's possible that this habit would have made him worse but hardly conclusive and it wasn't hurting anyone so I fail to see how the government is justified in ruining his life.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I can sort of see the govs way on all this. That stuff is just a portal for people to start doing that stuff for real. I have seen it before.

the things you own, end up owning you- Tyler Durden

So playing GTA will make me a murderer? NOW I KNO!!! /sarcasm

You dont need to write "Sarcasm" out. Im pretty good at picking it out after only a few months on these forums. Oh and "Kno" has a "W" at the end.

Back on subject. He did mail order the stuff so he is guilty. End of argument, and yea they are going to seize it, technically its contraband and they take that stuff.

And technically, Scopes broke the law against teaching evolution in his biology class, so he lost his case.

Yes, he broke the law. That's not the issue. The issue is that the law is quite stupid and the punishment for breaking it doesn't even come close to matching the crime.

And I would like to point out how the media desensitizes people. GTA is considered so run of the mill that it makes murder look like no big deal, or at least belittle it to the point that saying its "just a game" is a legit argument.

That is a legit argument. There's no causal connection between violence and video games.

As for this dude, that's just pathetic. Anime porn? Go out and get a life. Who knows maybe getting canned will make him do just that when he get released. And why are you people crying about his life getting "ruined"? Its the law and he broke it. Cause > Effect.....

You forgot the bestiality. You know, while you're deriding other peoples' tastes.

And we're crying about his life getting "ruined" because of a little thing called "disproportionate retribution." You don't execute people for parking violations, why the hell would you sentence someone to half a year in jail, three years of non-subsidized psych evaluation, and five years of probation on a first-time "offender" for something genuinely harmless?

See the thing about the "law being dumb" (For lack of a better title that I dont feel like thinking up) is that in a self serving society like the one we have become, everyone thinks it should be done their way. If you can live within the system, stop trying to change it and just get out so others dont have to hear you cry about every little thing that doesnt go YOUR way......

Why couldn't we have had this argument a month ago? It would have been supremely ironic to have it on Martin Luther King, Jr. day.

Well, I guess Black History month is a close second.

As for porn: I think its a pitiful degradation of man kind no matter what "Form" it takes. Those people are never in "love". Its their problem if they cant keep it in their pants.
Im not taking a shot at peoples "taste", Im taking aim at that entire "Sense" all together

Then why are you so upset about animated porn? Less objectification there.

Not bringing up the rest. Best case scenario, you're a troll trying to get a rise out of people. Worst case scenario, you actually believe it.

There is a casual connection to the video game violence argument. Go study up on your psychology. Hobbies, like video games for instance, tend to effect our social reactions on levels most dont even realize at the time.

That they do. Those effects don't cause violence in this case, though, in case you were wondering.

I'd bring up correlation and causation, but I suspect it would be a waste of time.

 

[Hussmann54]

Oh I wasnt trying to invoke his opinions. I just thought it an appropriate comment to the thought of owning and collecting this stuff. When I said that, some guy was like "So Playing GTA will make me a killer?" the problem is that it doesnt inherently make you do those things, it just makes it more justifiable in your mind.

Yea I kinda see your point on how it doesnt connect, but it does in a sense of how we do something rather than what we do.

EDIT: I have a post further up on this page expanding on it.

The problem is the quote isn't appropriate and is, in fact, slightly destructive to an argument made from ethos as it puts your perceptiveness into doubt.

That said, I can understand where your opinion comes from. There is very likely to be a causal link for paedophilia as well as a likely genetic link. The problem is we haven't identified a source in either of those categories; it's very dangerous to stand around pointing fingers at various behaviors and labeling them as causes. It distracts from the serious attempts being made to understand what instigates this horrible behavior.

What we've learned over the years is that pornography and fantasy are an outlet rather than a cause of deviant behavior and since hentai, unlike child pornography, doesn't harm anyone in it's creation it is probably the best way for a paedophile to deal with his urges short of castrating himself.

To that extent it's possible that this habit would have made him worse but hardly conclusive and it wasn't hurting anyone so I fail to see how the government is justified in ruining his life.

Ill give it to you there. You are probably one of the more mature people posting on this subject. This is why I stick to the gaming discussion and RP topic boards....

 

[ElectricAxel]

When i first saw the title i wasn't sure if it was a joke or not? Really, a 1/4 of a mil and 15 yearsin jail for pictures? I mean yes, little girls and animals doing, things, isn't a wholesome family fun thing, but, really? i dont care that there drawn pictures of little girls, there drawn gosh darnit! like really, its not like some of us(nerds and such) haven't seen shit like that once or twice, it doesn't mean were deviants and must be purged from society. thats just another reason i think American mothers are reteards(you know with the hootn' and the hollering at 'Porn'(read, video games) Mass Effect 2 is a good example of retards lashing out in ignorince. rant done. OH and on a side note, people saying"video games are a gateway to killing" and such, are freaking retarded, i mean ok, i can understand if you don't want your kid killing people in a video game, but telling other people what to do is a great way to lose friends, respect of other people, and i dont know, your freaking sanity. ok yes, Grand theft auto is a violent video game and the whole pick up prostitutes then run them over for your money, is a stupid on the part of Rockstar games but, have you watched TV, i've seen worse on televison then i have in most video games, for example shows like CSI and Crimanal minds show dead people(well not real dead people but yeah) i think that would be more scarring to a kid then watching a pixels get killed. erp, im running out of valid ideas so, im done

 

[Jaranja]

OH SHIT, BURN IT ALL, BURN IT ALL, BURN IT ALL.
Nah, I don't have any of that type of porn, child and bestiality? That's sick, but, seriously, it's just pictures, there are thousands of these things on the internet, I can't believe they destroyed someone's life for that.

ARREST THE INTERNET.

Seriously, this is ridiculous; it's art, not real.

I would find it hard to call that "art".

Well, excuse me, princess, I didn't realise you were the guy who makes laws.

Well excuse me for stating my opinion. Apparently yours is so much more important you can be a dick about it.

Well, my statement also contained fact.

"Art" is not an absolute qualifiable quantity, last time I checked. Though that does raise the question of why such a subjective term was allowed to be used in a law.

That's not the part I'm talking about. I said that it wasn't real. That's a fact.

 

[adderseal]

As has been pointed out many times before, they arrested him based on what he found stimulating. In other words, THE GOVERNMENT CAN ARREST YOU IF YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY. That is most defintely unconstitutional. The fact that the material itself is being treated as evidence of guilt of a crime never committed is even worse. It also means that artists as well as collectors now have to be careful of what they buy. That's right, you can no longer own a priceless Renaissance painting because it contains violent images or sexual themes despite being a huge part of histoy. Oh, and music will now soon have to be censored. We can't have any inappropriate themes in there like say opposing the police (as in 90% of rap), hatred of the government (some metal music there), or any relations to drugs since all of these will lead to crime. Don't forget to dispose of your great great grandfather's rifle from the Civil War since it either makes you a murderer or a usurper to the United States.

Oh, and turn in those bibles with all the incest, rape, genocide, murders, destruction of property, theft, adultry, castration, sexual deviancy, and the devil himself. That has obviously been plaguing our culture for too long.

As with anything, you have to take it in context. Being stimulated by normal, 'healthy' (if you will) porn is fine and natural, but being stimulated by children and animals is unnatural and and quite worrying. The Renaissance paintings you refer to have got great cultural value and help us piece together society and history, whilst two people going at it in an office or classroom or whatever doesn't really have much to offer to future generations.
Religion is another big thing: the Old Testament is bursting at the seams with violence death war horror etc but then it was written at a different time to the New Testament, where the teachings are completely different for some reason. I don't know much about those times, but I do know that context is all important.
Sorry I strayed but I hope my point is clear

 

[kasperbbs]

damn.. i guess id better delete my 'berserk' manga before its too late !
i think its ridiculous ,he wasnt harming anyone ,what he reads or watches on his free time is his business ,even if its messed up ,as long as its not the real thing.

 

[oppp7]

Well, time to go to Canada (have to learn how to freeze to death first...).
OT: I'm not a supporter of pedophilia, but this doesn't seem to help the issue. Wouldn't forcing people to repress their urges be exacerbating the problem instead of fixing it? And is beastiality illegal? If so, I have to go delete some site visit history before I get vanned...

On a different note: Could you please use different pictures for these kinds of threads Mr. Chalk? This one creeped me out.

 

[Therumancer]

Hmmm, well the conviction seems dubious to me. It sounds like he had a bad lawyer and the prosecuter basically managed to talk him down. This is one of those cases where he should have demanded a trial before a judge instead of a Jury because I don't think this would have stood up to close scrutiny. What's more by plea bargaining we've seen some dangerous precedent established.

That said, when it comes to stuff like what he had, I have mixed opinions. I've said before that I have no real problem with teen on teen sex, and feel it's part of growing up and learning about life. I favor education programs and the distribution of free condoms and birth control in school.

When dealing with works of pure fantasy, and characters very unlike real people, like super heroes, mages, demons, and space aliens and such, I feel that there is no real issue (assuming an old enough reader who can seperate fantasy from reality) given that I figure any character capable of holding the fate of the universe in their hands (or whatever) is also by definition going to be capable of deciding how (and when) to get their freak off so to speak.

Despite what you might think from my posts, I'm not a huge collector of porn of any sort. I do however have a few things, and am a fan of things like Kondoms old "Bondage Fairies" series. Some of the stuff in my science fiction and fantasy collection is pretty risque in general, and heck I'll even point out that some books I own like Piers Anthony's "Bio Of A Space Tyrant" and "Adept" series, not to mention some stuff by Robert Heinlan involve some issues about age and sexual morality. Indeed a politician having sex with underage girls and actually treating them very well, is a key point to the entire "Bio Of A Space Tyrant" series due to the way it ties into 'kife' which a key element of the entire storyline (and without giving away too much for any who might read this classic, was probably the inspiration for Mass Effect's 'Cerberus Group').

At any rate, when the goverment goes around arresting people for things like bloody comic books, which were purchused through legitimate means, it's time to remind people that our "Right to Keep and Bear Arms" exists for a reason. That right exists specifically to stand off the goverment, and to make it dangerous for the goverment to enforce laws under massive opposition. Cops are going to refuse to enforce laws (which will probably change) if they know that they are going to be putting their life on the line over a dirty drawing or three.

Don't "flush" your porn collection, get a weapon even if not a gun, and if someone knocks on your door over this kind of thing, use it. Inspire others, and in the end it will make a differance.

.

Also when fighting on a legal technicality, if you don't have the guts to defend yourself, waive your bloody Jury trial. People have the right to do this specifically to make cases based on the law itself that might otherwise be unpopular. A good prosecuter is going to try and rally a jury in a case like this, by hitting people's "yuck buttons". A Judge on the other hand is more closely bound, and has any desician he makes ultimatly looked at by other judges. This is why so many corperations and such go before judges in making cases than juries.

 

[Obrien Xp]

Clearly he's not in danger of being a real criminal. They should have just given him a warning and a small fine.

 

[GloatingSwine]

As with anything, you have to take it in context. Being stimulated by normal, 'healthy' (if you will) porn is fine and natural, but being stimulated by children and animals is unnatural and and quite worrying.

The very concept of something being "unnatural" is ridiculous. Never mind the fact that that argument has been used since time immemorial to condemn LGBT persons and inter-racial relationships, nothing that humans do is capable of being "unnatural" because we are products of nature.

Also, the concept of obscenity, criminalising a thing not because persons were harmed in it's creation but because of reaction to it in itself is the institution in law of Thoughtcrime. It should be needless to say that this violates the most basic principles of a free society and the rule of law.

The other commonly raised argument, that consumers of "obscene" material will be prompted into harmful actions because of it is even worse, it is nothing short of stating that a person can be convicted of crimes that they might in future commit. This precedent makes us all criminal from the moment of our birth, because we might commit a crime one day.

 

[Yawwy]

The Renaissance paintings you refer to have got great cultural value and help us piece together society and history, whilst two people going at it in an office or classroom or whatever doesn't really have much to offer to future generations.

Well,there are vases and paintings out there depicting such acts.Obviously not in an office or a classroom,but there are many artifacts in museums etc which depict sexual acts between men/women/children/animals.I do agree with you,but you can't say that 'Doll Labyrinth' isn't giving future generations anything,while a vase depicting two men with one boy has something to offer us.Let's face it,sexual perversion hasn't changed all that much.If anything,back then,it was worse,because people were more open about it.It was accepted.So when you see a vase depicting a sexual act,from say,the time of ancient Egypt,what your really seeing is an early porn magazine.I think I have to go wash now after thinking about this.

 

[Lord Beautiful]

I think I'm going to quote myself on this one. There's already been a topic created on this, and I don't want to type all of my opinion again.

"In spite of me really not supporting this guy's hobby, this is bullshit. Isn't the reason behind the illigalization of child pornography that its creation requires the sexual exploitation of actual children? If that's the case, why the fuck are they arresting this guy for having books in which the children are animated (i.e. not fucking real)? Are they expecting us to believe that they have the right to arrest someone for the abuse of someone who doesn't fucking exist?

This shit should have never happened, especially not in America."

 

[pirateninj4]

If they try to dry the stuff up, people are just going to go outside for their fixes...

 

[One of Many]

"possession of obscene visual representations of the sexual abuse of children"

So does mean all the porn I have of schoolgirls banging the teacher, the cheerleaders sucking off the football coach or the sexy math teach getting some underage stud, will get me arrested? I mean, I know the actors are over the age of 18 but their.....role....yeah,thats it, their role is that of a youth?

Man, I better get rid of those files, just in case some cop (or the FBI) reads this thread.

The prosecution in the case admitted that Handley did not have a criminal history and wasn't in possession of any actual child pornography, but argued that the material had no "arguable scientific, literary, artistic or political value" and was "clearly obscene."

Can we use that argument to arrest anyone possessing a copy of the Twilight series?

 

[recoverytwo]

How much do you wanna bet there's gonna be at least one person who shuffles through their manga collection and/or destroys some of it after reading this thread?

On a completely unrelated topic...
My friend wants to know how do you completely destroy all the data on a hard drive?

With a big ass magnet.

And/or a blowtorch.

I think a truck mite do the job.

Way to Destroy a guys life because you don't like the lines he looks at.