Herman Cain dies of Covid-19.

[XsjadoBlayde]

Maybe, maybe not. Apparently whoever manages Herman Cain and Turning Point USA social media have been going around removing any posts on claiming Covid19 is a hoax and denouncing the wearing of masks. Doesn't really strike me as taking the opportunity for a teaching moment, more like a rousing round of covering their asses.

That isn't surprising one bit. Treating it more like a corporation undergoing sudden PR restructuring and document shredding after a public embarrassment than a humbling introspection and renouncement.

 

[Buyetyen]

I hope I misreading this. Because if not, it has me seething with rage. The only 'politicizing" there is happens when people refuse science and the well being of others due to a perceived right to do so. When you're taking a stand against masks, you're taking a stand against proven medical science and forgoing other people's safety so you can feel free.

I pray to anything that will hear me that I have this statement wrong. I do not have enough curse words for this statement and others like it if I read it correctly.

No, you seem to be reading that right. This sort of oblivious self-pity is just par for the course in modern American conservatism. As has been touched on already, we live in a very stupid country that encourages people to make selfish, boneheaded decisions in the name of some undefined freedoms. In saying that, Hull showed that even when a friend dies, he reflexively has to cast himself and other conservatives as victims of partisanship.

I don’t think people are going to take COVID seriously until they have been affected. And even then, some just want to be contrarian. Because liberals can never be right

We're at the point where it's starting to look like the pandemic won't be under control until it kills enough of the stupid people that they stop throwing sand in the gears, or at least less.

Bit of topic, but anyone know why the co-founder of a student group founded in 2012 was an septuagenarian?

Because in Republican circles, that still counts as youthful. Cherry on top: Charlie Kirk is supposed to be outreach to college kids. He never went to college.

Maybe, maybe not. Apparently whoever manages Herman Cain and Turning Point USA social media have been going around removing any posts on claiming Covid19 is a hoax and denouncing the wearing of masks. Doesn't really strike me as taking the opportunity for a teaching moment, more like a rousing round of covering their asses.

GOP SOP. Their electoral strategy is predicated on creating an aura of infallibility. The Bush administration elevated this to a science and Trump just made it worse because he makes everything worse. To a Republican, the most dangerous thing he can do is apologize.

 

[Agema]

I'm sorry for Herman's family, but to draw a positive, there are few things more usefully instructive than the right sorts of people dying.

 

[stroopwafel]

I don't know who that guy is but assuming he's dead because he didn't wear a mask is kind of a stretch. He already belongs to risk group with his age alone so if he attended a large gathering with other people in close proximity a mask would not have made a difference. There is absolutely zero evidence non-medical masks do anything. Only distancing and hand hygiene is reliable and masks could even be counter-productive if it gives people a false sense of safety. I really don't see the value of walking around with an unhygienic sock in your mouth.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Bit of topic, but anyone know why the co-founder of a student group founded in 2012 was an septuagenarian?

Because it is the nature of old people to try to twist the young into new versions of themselves, in a vain attempt to cheat death.

 

[Aegix Drakan]

I don't know who that guy is but assuming he's dead because he didn't wear a mask is kind of a stretch. He already belongs to risk group with his age alone so if he attended a large gathering with other people in close proximity a mask would not have made a difference. There is absolutely zero evidence non-medical masks do anything. Only distancing and hand hygiene is reliable and masks could even be counter-productive if it gives people a false sense of safety. I really don't see the value of walking around with an unhygienic sock in your mouth.

The main reason you wear a mask is because if you are asymptomatic (something that happens frequently with this particular virus, it can can take 2 weeks before you show symptoms), you can easily spread the virus without knowing it by just exhaling or talking or sneezing or otherwise getting infected air particles up into the air.

Because, you know, wearing a big fabric mask over your mouth and nose means it will catch most of the particles, so they don't go up in the air and potentially into someone else's respiratory system.

Also, it's not in your mouth, it's over your mouth and nose, and honestly, aside from being murder on the ears, they're not even uncomfortable, nor are they unhygenic if you put them in the wash...

So, if he and everyone else around him was wearing a mask, the odds of him catching it would have gone down considerably.

Finally...A demonstration. Take it away Bill Nye!

 

[SupahEwok]

Bit of topic, but anyone know why the co-founder of a student group founded in 2012 was an septuagenarian?

He was the bankroll. And plenty of conservatives feel like universities are indoctrination centers, and the message needs to be sent out to college kids to counter liberal communist evil bias in the classroom.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

We talked to UCSF epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDC’s reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.

www.ucsf.edu

What evidence do we have that wearing a mask is effective in preventing COVID-19?
There are several strands of evidence supporting the efficacy of masks.

One category of evidence comes from laboratory studies of respiratory droplets and the ability of various masks to block them. An experiment using high-speed video found that hundreds of droplets ranging from 20 to 500 micrometers were generated when saying a simple phrase, but that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth. Another study of people who had influenza or the common cold found that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduced the amount of these respiratory viruses emitted in droplets and aerosols.

But the strongest evidence in favor of masks come from studies of real-world scenarios. “The most important thing are the epidemiologic data,” said Rutherford. Because it would be unethical to assign people to not wear a mask during a pandemic, the epidemiological evidence has come from so-called “experiments of nature.”

A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points.

Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates.

Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford. In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive.

Do masks protect the people wearing them or the people around them?
“I think there’s enough evidence to say that the best benefit is for people who have COVID-19 to protect them from giving COVID-19 to other people, but you’re still going to get a benefit from wearing a mask if you don’t have COVID-19,” said Chin-Hong.

Masks may be more effective as a “source control” because they can prevent larger expelled droplets from evaporating into smaller droplets that can travel farther.

Another factor to remember, noted Rutherford, is that you could still catch the virus through the membranes in your eyes, a risk that masking does not eliminate.

How many people need to wear masks to reduce community transmission?
“What you want is 100 percent of people to wear masks, but you’ll settle for 80 percent,” said Rutherford. In one simulation, researchers predicted that 80 percent of the population wearing masks would do more to reduce COVID-19 spread than a strict lockdown.

The latest forecast from the Institute of Health Metrics and Evaluation suggests that 33,000 deaths could be avoided by October 1 if 95 percent of people wore masks in public.

Even if you live in a community where few people wear masks, you would still reduce your own chances of catching the virus by wearing one, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford.

Does the type of mask matter?
Studies have compared various mask materials, but for the general public, the most important consideration may be comfort. The best mask is one you can wear comfortably and consistently, said Chin-Hong. N95 respirators are only necessary in medical situations such as intubation. Surgical masks are generally more protective than cloth masks, and some people find them lighter and more comfortable to wear.

The bottom line is that any mask that covers the nose and mouth will be of benefit.

“The concept is risk reduction rather than absolute prevention,” said Chin-Hong. “You don’t throw up your hands if you think a mask is not 100 percent effective. That’s silly. Nobody’s taking a cholesterol medicine because they’re going to prevent a heart attack 100 percent of the time, but you’re reducing your risk substantially.”

However, both Rutherford and Chin-Hong cautioned against N95 masks with valves (commonly used in construction to prevent the inhalation of dust) because they do not protect those around you. These one-way valves close when the wearer breathes in, but open when the wearer breathes out, allowing unfiltered air and droplets to escape. Chin-Hong said that anyone wearing a valved mask would need to wear a surgical or cloth mask over it. "Alternatively, just wear a non-valved mask," he said.

San Francisco has specified that masks with valves do not comply with the city's face covering order.

 

[stroopwafel]

The main reason you wear a mask is because if you are asymptomatic (something that happens frequently with this particular virus, it can can take 2 weeks before you show symptoms), you can easily spread the virus without knowing it by just exhaling or talking or sneezing or otherwise getting infected air particles up into the air.

Because, you know, wearing a big fabric mask over your mouth and nose means it will catch most of the particles, so they don't go up in the air and potentially into someone else's respiratory system.

Also, it's not in your mouth, it's over your mouth and nose, and honestly, aside from being murder on the ears, they're not even uncomfortable, nor are they unhygenic if you put them in the wash...

So, if he and everyone else around him was wearing a mask, the odds of him catching it would have gone down considerably.

Finally...A demonstration. Take it away Bill Nye!

Nah these are microscopic particles that travel in and around everywhere. Masks have a negligible effect at best. Like I said I'm fine with distancing measures because this is a reliable method to prevent infection transmission but I draw the line at symbolic crap.

 

[stroopwafel]

Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

We talked to UCSF epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDC’s reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.

www.ucsf.edu

RESULTS: We included 15 randomised trials investigating the effect of masks (14 trials) in healthcare workers and the general population and of quarantine (1 trial). We found no trials testing eye protection. Compared to no masks there was no reduction of influenza-like illness (ILI) cases (Risk Ratio 0.93, 95%CI 0.83 to 1.05) or influenza (Risk Ratio 0.84, 95%CI 0.61-1.17) for masks in the general population, nor in healthcare workers (Risk Ratio 0.37, 95%CI 0.05 to 2.50). There was no difference between surgical masks and N95 respirators: for ILI (Risk Ratio 0.83, 95%CI 0.63 to 1.08), for influenza (Risk Ratio 1.02, 95%CI 0.73 to 1.43).

Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses. Part 1 - Face masks, eye protection and person distancing: systematic review and meta-analysis

OBJECTIVE To examine the effectiveness of eye protection, face masks, or person distancing on interrupting or reducing the spread of respiratory viruses. DESIGN Update of a Cochrane review that included a meta-analysis of observational studies during the SARS outbreak of 2003. DATA SOURCES...

www.medrxiv.org

 

[Chimpzy]

He was the bankroll. And plenty of conservatives feel like universities are indoctrination centers, and the message needs to be sent out to college kids to counter liberal communist evil bias in the classroom.

Yeah, that makes sense. The more I look into TPUSA, the more I get a "power behind the throne" feeling.

 

[Worgen]

Nah these are microscopic particles that travel in and around everywhere. Masks have a negligible effect at best. Like I said I'm fine with distancing measures because this is a reliable method to prevent infection transmission but I draw the line at symbolic crap.

People with attitudes like that are why this is such a huge problem here. But, on the plus side that mentality seems to be pretty effective at spreading it to other people like themeslves.

Louie Gohmert, who refused to wear a mask, tests positive for coronavirus

The Texas Republican received the diagnosis during a pre-screening procedure at the White House on Wednesday morning.

www.politico.com

 

[Buyetyen]

Nah these are microscopic particles that travel in and around everywhere. Masks have a negligible effect at best. Like I said I'm fine with distancing measures because this is a reliable method to prevent infection transmission but I draw the line at symbolic crap.

Please stop pretending you understand science. You really don't. The virus isn't just floating free in open air by itself. It's carried in the tiny particles of water in your breath, the kind that fog a mirror. A mask captures most of that humidity. This is why paper masks are disposable and fabric masks are machine washable. Does it protect you? Kind of. The bigger point is preventing asymptomatic carriers from spreading the virus to others by reducing the amount of particulate they breathe out into the space around them.

In other words, your problem is not just that you don't understand how microbiology works, it's that you're thinking only of yourself. The mask is about not spreading that shit to other people. So take your own advice and cut the symbolic gestures of faux-skepticism.

 

[Xprimentyl]

 

[Agema]

Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses. Part 1 - Face masks, eye protection and person distancing: systematic review and meta-analysis

OBJECTIVE To examine the effectiveness of eye protection, face masks, or person distancing on interrupting or reducing the spread of respiratory viruses. DESIGN Update of a Cochrane review that included a meta-analysis of observational studies during the SARS outbreak of 2003. DATA SOURCES...

www.medrxiv.org

Congratulations on failing the first rule of using scientific literature to support your argument, which is getting a balanced view of a large body of the literature and then perhaps selecting some representative examples. Just cherry picking one or more articles that conveniently happen to confirm your prejudices is not useful.

Thankfully, the CDC, UK HSE, WHO etc. employ professionals whose job it is to do proper searches and summarise the findings as advice so non-experts don't have to. They all have recommended guidelines on people wearing face coverings. So just stop quibbling and fucking do it.

 

[stroopwafel]

Please stop pretending you understand science. You really don't.

Good for me that you're such a professor then.

So just stop quibbling and fucking do it.

No.

 

[SupahEwok]

No.

And this is why we can't have nice things.

 

[CM156]

No.

Your belief in the efficacy of masks is not required. Only your compliance.

 

[meiam]

And Cain wasn't just some backward hillbilly, he had university degree in mathematic, still drank the cool aid of anti-mask, of all the thing to be against. Also the entire time he was dying his staff kept tweeting anti covid stuff on his official tweeter, I think one of the last one they sent before he died was something along that line.

 

[Aegix Drakan]

Good for me that you're such a professor then.

No.

Well, I sincerely hope you don't get it, because you're liable to spread it to someone else with your attitude.

And I'd really hate for you have blood on your hands if it then kills one of those someones.