Gotta agree on Grandia 2. Even the re-fighting of past bosses along the way was tougher...and by then...that wasn't hard, since you knew their attack routines. Then you get to psycho pope and...well. Cake walk. He never even gets to act if you know what you're doing.Skarvig said:Grandia 2Onyx Oblivion said:Grandia 1
You fought a tough first form.
Than came the final form. It did nothing but buff/debuff.
>_>
Nearly every boss before consisted of at least 2 targets while the last boss was just one person. There was no real tactics behind it, one or two people reset his charge bar and the third just hits with all he got. It was the first time I thought: "Wow, this was disappointing".
Oh man. In that one, I actually had the gun that could shoot through everything. Aimed at what appeared to be just another tank, fired... and turns out I killed the boss. So underwhelming compared to the chaos of getting up there.Drakmorg said:Red Faction Guerrilla.
Granted I wasn't really expecting some sort of amazing epic final confrontation, but I wasn't expecting to fight a retard who can't operate his tank either.
The whole fight pretty much went down like this:
"Oh shit a tank, I should hide behind these rocks"
*tank rams into rocks and gets caught somehow*
*toss all my satchel charges at tank*
*tank explodes*
Congratulations! You Win Game!
That's not true! Sometimes it used really basic level 1 magic on you that barely did any damage!Onyx Oblivion said:Grandia 1
You fought a tough first form.
Than came the final form. It did nothing but buff/debuff.
>_>
Hold on there. Red Dead Redemption has no bosses, and thus has no final boss. It's not relevant to this discussion at all. In fact, most of the games you mentioned aren't relevant here. There is a difference between a boss fight and just the final mission/level. Pretty much every game you talked about have no bosses, just final levels. Talking about final bosses that stink is generally reserved for games that actually have bosses in the first place. Please try to stay on topic, this is about worst final bosses, not worst final gameplay segment.Thaius said:Consider games like Shadow of the Colossus and Red Dead Redemption
And here we come across an interesting issue: the idea that art and entertainment are inherently separate and cannot coexist. It's simply not true. The goal of a game, of any form of art or entertainment, is not necessarily to be "entertaining," in the traditional sense of the word, but to be compelling. I actually wrote <url=http://binarynarrative.blogspot.com/2011/06/entertainment-vs-art-how-do-they-relate.html>an article about it a while back. Consider movies like Schindler's List, or Pan's Labyrinth. I highly doubt you were having fun while watching any of those films (assuming you've seen them), but they were really good nonetheless, because though they could probably not be described as "entertaining," they were compelling and impacting experiences. There is absolutely no reason a game cannot do the same. Perhaps it could be argued that it ceases to be a "game," but we really need to stop demonizing the idea that games are about more than just gameplay.blakfayt said:But you've missed something, the bit where they become PREDICTABLE AS FUCK, you can say "it's all intense thinking it will end without you being able to do anything, then suddenly YOU CAN!" but most often it's just annoying, going all the way to there, only to find you have to be HERE and you actually didn't even need to go there. Often times the "easiest boss" is the one that is so utterly predictable that they don't serve as an appropriate climax, or when you work your way to some peak only to find that nothing happens but some cheap ass deus ex-esque cut scene and the games over. Games can be art all they want, but at the end of the day they are a form of entertainment, and if you sacrifice entertainment for art, they're no longer games. (at least they aren't good ones)Thaius said:A few, but I'd really like to get on a soapbox here really quick...
*steps up* Ahem.
Games are no longer simply about challenge. They are experiences. Artistic works intended to invoke emotion through an interactive narrative. That goal is no less valid than the goal of challenging the player, and sometimes there is value to using the "final boss" for something other than a challenge.
Consider games like Shadow of the Colossus and Red Dead Redemption, where there was gameplay after the "final boss" with immense emotional impact. Consider games like Halo: Reach or Crisis Core where the "final boss" is your character's final stand, and you are destined to lose (not spoilers, since both are prequels; if you know enough to play those games anyway, you already know how they end). Consider the first Halo, where the last bit of gameplay was not really that challenging, but was one of the most thrilling things a video game had ever done at the time. Or consider Modern Warfare and its sequel, where the endings are intense precisely because you can't do anything about what's going on, and only at the last second do you get to perform the one action that can ensure victory. These are how video games, as interactive narratives and impacting artistic experiences, have a perfectly good right to end. It's not challenging, but it sure is the intense emotional climax of the game. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact, I'd say that's where Bioshock went wrong; its boss was just an excuse to challenge you a bit at the end, and it turned out not only easy, but meaningless in the relation to other recent events.
My point simply is, it's okay for games to feature an easy final boss, or no final boss at all, if they instead use that place in the game to provide a satisfying climax to the game regardless of challenge.
*steps down*
I figured it was relevant considering much of the discussion is about that. I've seen Halo 3 mentioned a few times, as well as other games that don't have a "boss," per se, but simply a finale. Heck, the most cited game in this thread is Fable II, which was only disappointing because it wasn't a boss fight at all. I think you're arguing semantics by basing this criticism on the specific word used in the OP rather than where the discussion has gone.mjc0961 said:Hold on there. Red Dead Redemption has no bosses, and thus has no final boss. It's not relevant to this discussion at all. In fact, most of the games you mentioned aren't relevant here. There is a difference between a boss fight and just the final mission/level. Pretty much every game you talked about have no bosses, just final levels. Talking about final bosses that stink is generally reserved for games that actually have bosses in the first place. Please try to stay on topic, this is about worst final bosses, not worst final gameplay segment.Thaius said:Consider games like Shadow of the Colossus and Red Dead Redemption
It's about story structure and climax, and unless something can make up for the fact the final boss isn't the most difficult enemy in game, it's a letdown, and people don't invest potentially dozens of hours into a game to be letdown. Not that it's the only way of doing it, but it's the most familiar way. I think it is possible to have a sufficient climax without that being the case, but it's made only that much more difficult unless a dev team is very creative.Denamic said:Why does the 'final boss' be the toughest enemy you'll face?
What is this, a jRPG from 1990?
Sometimes, the leader is the leader because he's the best leader, not because he can shoot death rays out of his eyes.