Historical "facts" and popular representations of histrical figures that are wrong

[Leadfinger]

I think Hitler was a great leader. He did a few things during the 30's that he shouldn't have (like dissolving the SA with a knife and locking up the socialists) but underneath the mess there was a fantastic leader. He gets misrepresented and demonized much more than he might deserve.

If he hadn't come into power during the depression, if the upper class had been slightly more varied in ethnic makeup, if the socialists didn't cave to public pressure and open the door for him... Under different circumstances, Hitler may have been the greatest leader Germany had ever known.

What about the whole "let's eradicate the Jews" thing?

I already answered that and added several "if onlys," too;

If he hadn't come into power during the depression, if the upper class had been slightly more varied in ethnic makeup, if the socialists didn't cave to public pressure and open the door for him... Under different circumstances, Hitler may have been the greatest leader Germany had ever known.

No, your "if onlys" don't answer that. Hitler was an evil man with a diabolical lust for power. This can easily be seen by the huge number of evil acts he committed. Even if Hitler had come to power in different circumstances, and this is a big if, he still would have wrought evil.

 

[Roggen Bread]

And if your profile is right, you're Australian.

Please do not tell Germans who their best leader was. Whoever it was (Bismarck, ffs!), it was NOT Hitler. This is just insulting.

Please don't tell Australians what to think of German leaders.

See, that can work both ways.

But I do not insult you asking you not to do this.

You actually managed to offend me. This does not happen often.

If you take offense to someone saying which political figure they feel could have made the best leader of a country under different circumstances, you're far too sensitive.

Believe me mate, I am not.

You just seem to have no bloody idea what these words evoke in a German.
We have been working the last 70 years nonstop to get over the horror hitler created. To achieve, that Germany is not "the country hitler used to fuck over Poland and the jews". And we are still not done.
We are branded with this and will be for next time.
If we had a German flag in our front yard, (I don't know why I would want that, but here you go, Americans, Brits, Frenchs, everyone else...) it was the nazi dance all over again.

 

[tofulove]

Swords were not common battlefield weapons; they were not heavy; they were cutting weapons, not bludgeoning weapons.

As someone else said above, Edison didn't invent shit. Tesla, however...

Other than that, I probably don't know enough about history to make anymore informed comments.

depends on what era and what nation. in mid to late medieval era it was pretty dam rare to see a sword in a actual battle. than it came back in style after armor went out of style thanks to advances in gun powder. very popular with the romans.

 

[Magicite Spring]

If you take offense to someone saying which political figure they feel could have made the best leader of a country under different circumstances, you're far too sensitive.

In my English class a couple of years ago, we had a German exhange student. Unfortunatly, the day she started we were in the process of watching "The Pianist", which, in case you haven't seen it, is about a Jew hiding from the Germans during WW2. She ended up crying and running from the classroom because this movie affected her so much.

Basically, Germans hate Hitler and what he did and I happen to agree because he did terrible things. No matter how much of a great leader he was, and what his policies were, he did terrible, terrible things and you can't just ignore that. That is why he will never ever be Germany's greatest leader.

 

[tofulove]

mongol tactics work great in the steps and arid lands of the middle east, they worked horrible in the forested areas of Europe, why they never got past eastern Europe.

 

[Supertegwyn]

And if your profile is right, you're Australian.

Please do not tell Germans who their best leader was. Whoever it was (Bismarck, ffs!), it was NOT Hitler. This is just insulting.

Please don't tell Australians what to think of German leaders.

See, that can work both ways.

But I do not insult you asking you not to do this.

You actually managed to offend me. This does not happen often.

If you take offense to someone saying which political figure they feel could have made the best leader of a country under different circumstances, you're far too sensitive.

My family was almost destroyed by World War 2, and I hold Hitler directly responsible for that.
This is more than that and you know it. Don't try and bullshit your way out of your insane claims.

 

[Tropicaz]

I think Hitler was a great leader. He did a few things during the 30's that he shouldn't have (like dissolving the SA with a knife and locking up the socialists) but underneath the mess there was a fantastic leader. He gets misrepresented and demonized much more than he might deserve.

If he hadn't come into power during the depression, if the upper class had been slightly more varied in ethnic makeup, if the socialists didn't cave to public pressure and open the door for him... Under different circumstances, Hitler may have been the greatest leader Germany had ever known.

What about the whole "let's eradicate the Jews" thing?

I already answered that and added several "if onlys," too;

If he hadn't come into power during the depression, if the upper class had been slightly more varied in ethnic makeup, if the socialists didn't cave to public pressure and open the door for him... Under different circumstances, Hitler may have been the greatest leader Germany had ever known.

No, your "if onlys" don't answer that. Hitler was an evil man with a diabolical lust for power. This can easily be seen by the huge number of evil acts he committed. Even if Hitler had come to power in different circumstances, and this is a big if, he still would have wrought evil.

You asked me about what the Nazi Party had done to the Jews and then went on a rant about other evils? Again, I already answered your question; if someone says "if only" that would imply they wished the outcome or events had been different. That is your answer. You don't have to like it.

SO essentially you're saying that if events were completely different and Hitler was a completely different person then things may have been different? Nice work.

 

[tofulove]

americans claiming that the atomic bombs were necessary to defeat japan without an invasion. it's history revisionism at it's best, japan had already signaled willingness to surrender prior to the bombings but was ignored. the consensus among historians is pretty much that it was to field test those things and to intimidate the soviets, which were perceived as a growing threat.
also, slightly related: pretending like the germans would have won the war in europe without american assistance. no. just...no. (pacific is a different deal though)

if it was not for nukes, there would of bin a ww3. maybe that intimidation was enough to prevent ww3 (with out a real life test on real people there would of bin slightly less fear of the bomb) perhaps they had good foresight, and if they did not drop it we be saying in hindsight we should of used it in ww2 to show how bad it was. not saying that's the case, but seeing a crater in the desert isn't as horrible as seeing a crater in a large city. probably would of bin enough ether way. but if there was a ww3 ww4 would of bin fought with sticks and stones ;p

 

[tofulove]

I don't want to include anything that has already been said, so I guess I'll include some personal annoyances:

Darwin did not turn to Christianity while on his death bed.

Christopher Columbus did not discover North America. He rediscovered it several hundred years after the Vikings.

The Constitutional Convention did not open with a prayer.

Thomas Jefferson, while owning slaves, was not pro-slavery, and drafted plenty of legislation that stopped the importation of slaves and the like, and made his state the first to stop importation of slaves from Africa.

Many/most of the founding fathers were deistic, and not strictly Christian.

and before the vikings it was the native Americans who travel from Asia who traveled from Africa

 

[Magicite Spring]

What don't you understand? You're arguing like I'm yet to come across some piece of information. I know the man. I know the Nazi Party. I know the history. I like some aspects of the most former and think he could have been great.

I think you are misunderstanding something here. I, and others on here, are not arguing that he could have been great. But you said in your very first post here that he was great. And that is something I, and others here, disagree with.

 

[tofulove]

Some people seem to think King John was actually a good king and that it's just Robin Hood that's given him a bad name. He was, in fact, such a bad king that the Barons went to war with him. On the other hand, that gave us Parliament and the Magna Carta, so, as Churchill said, "When the long tally is added, it will be seen that the British nation and the English-speaking world owe far more to the vices of John than to the labours of virtuous sovereigns."

he was delt a bad hand from the lion heart who bankrupt the nation on a failed war across the world. so that did not help.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Linchon didn't give a fuck about slaves

I could swear I read last year that only Confederate slaves were freed at first and slaves in Union states were protected property, almost as a giant fuck you to the rebels. I may have read it wrong or mixed it up in the time since but I read something along those lines.

I think Hitler was a great leader. He did a few things during the 30's that he shouldn't have (like dissolving the SA with a knife and locking up the socialists) but underneath the mess there was a fantastic leader. He gets misrepresented and demonized much more than he might deserve.

If he hadn't come into power during the depression, if the upper class had been slightly more varied in ethnic makeup, if the socialists didn't cave to public pressure and open the door for him... Under different circumstances, Hitler may have been the greatest leader Germany had ever known.

Eh, in a way I can agree with you. He was still a ruthless moronic prick but he did some good for Germany. It was on it's way out of the slump it had been in anyway, if I remember rightly, and Hitler did give it a boost but he also fucked over a bunch of the people he was trying to help. He didn't have much interest in the people though, he was all about bringing Germany back to it's former glory. West Germany had far better leaders than Hitler though, even though it had help from Western countries there was unparalleled consistent growth in Germany straight out from their utter destruction. Just to compare, England received far more aid than Germany did from America and barely made it out with pennies in their pockets. Though I'd still much sooner be in that situation with public healthcare; God bless Atlee, Beveridge and, for good measure, Keynes. Fuck I love Keynes.