Hitman (2016) the best stealth game in last 10 years?

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

Hello,

so my dear friends, in this thread we talk about rise, fall, decline and comeback of stealth games. in early 00s, stealth games were pure stealth games. and were absolutely amazing back then. when games like thief, splinter cell (early) and Hitman. then we see developers replacing them with action games as a result all these franchise ruined and dumbed down. first splinter cell was ruined when double agent released which was fall of franchise then conviction and blacklist were action games. and not like how amazing chaos theory was.

then we see Hitman ruined when absolution was released. the hitman which known for having large level design, disguises, big maps, silent assassination turn into action game with see through walls, cinematic, cutscenes driven, cutscene assassination etc. by far worst game in series. some hybrid games were good like dishonored and Deus Ex but they were not pure stealth games.

fast forward Hitman 2016 was announced as game back to its roots.

however they released episodic model which failed and many people didnot bought it and and me included but i get this once full game release. and then i see YES. the game indeed back to its roots. this is exactly what hitman is all about. by playing this game i feel like how i missed stealth games in last 10 years as last generation ruined stealth genre for me. but this game? its masterpiece and one of the best game of this generation. it has largest maps in hitman game ever, gameplay and AI heavily improve from previous games. especially how bad absolution was. this game just save the franchise.

So I believe this is the best stealth game since splinter cell chaos theory and Hitman blood money which were released in 2005/06,

So what do you think? discuss

 

[Zhukov]

Well, it's easily the best Hitman game.

I barely consider it a stealth game though. Most of the time it's more like a point-and-click adventure where you kill people. The combat and conventional stealth mechanics are more supplemental.

Shame about it being always-online though. I wouldn't have payed for it if I'd known it had that bullshit.

 

[Saelune]

Was Bloodmoney 11 years ago or something?

Edit: Oh...it actually is. Well then.

 

[stroopwafel]

No, it's really good but also way too systematic. Hitman is so meticulous in it's clockwork structure that you're always restarting at the slightest mistake which kinds of kills the flow of the game. It's still really unique but not something I always had the most fun with.

Not the biggest fan of stealth but my most favorite must be MGS5. It's very organic with multiple avenues to approach objectives and clever A.I. Also when you do get caught you have more than enough means to fight your way out of the situation. The game always adapts to your playstyle. Less 'realistic' than Hitman perhaps but it makes for a funner game. Ofcourse MGS5 had the problem that all of it's missions felt like recycled filler missions with locations being re-used all the time and with boring objectives(not to mention the disappointing story) but the moment-to-moment gameplay was awesome and the best in the genre in my opinion.

Was Bloodmoney 11 years ago or something?

Edit: Oh...it actually is. Well then.

Time goes by...so fast.

 

[Zhukov]

Also when you do get caught you have more than enough means to fight your way out of the situation. The game always adapts to your playstyle. Less 'realistic' than Hitman perhaps but it makes for a funner game. Ofcourse MGS5 had the problem that all of it's missions felt like recycled filler missions with locations being re-used all the time and with boring objectives(not to mention the disappointing story) but the moment-to-moment gameplay was awesome and the best in the genre in my opinion.

It also suffered from blandopenworlditis and all that boring base-building menu bullshit.

Biggest problem however, was giving the player too many tools. Between conventional sneakery and combat, gadgets galore, airstrikes and companions there was never any sense of problem solving.

Some games present you with a series of locks and a set of keys and you have to figure out which keys fit which locks. Some games just give you a lockpick and let you fend for yourself. MGS5 gives you 10 different master keys which all work effortlessly. (See also, Dishonored and its sequel.)

Kind of a shame. Somewhere under that suffocating bloated mass there was a rock-solid core game struggling to get out.

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

From what I've seen it looks fun, but I need a certain mindset for Hitman. Stroopwafel mentioned it being more "realistic" but that's still a stretch, in line with so many movies. There is plenty of wackiness in Hitman games, and it relies greatly on trial and error to orchestrate a satisfying hit. Sometimes you get lucky, but if it was realistic then most of the trial and error would be replaced by weeks of planning (or at least hours worth of in-game time) to scope the building ahead of time, know the blueprints, security, personel schedules, planning your approach, escape, backup plan for snafu's, etc.

Basically the games can be outstanding fun but only if you have incredible amounts of patience.

 

[stroopwafel]

Basically the games can be outstanding fun but only if you have incredible amounts of patience.

Exactly this. Unfortunately, patience has never really been a virtue of mine.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I tend to consider Hitman (2016) as more of a puzzle game then a stealth game, because it shares more with puzzle solving games then with Thief, MGS or any other stealth franchise. To get a good hit in Hitman you have to find a way to reach your target and kill them and the real challenge is in figuring out how to get into the embassy, find the masseur and hide his body so that you can reach the target more then it is about not being seen by the guards. It is a great puzzle game like that and Hitman (2016) is a lot more forgiving with getting detected and letting you work around being seen or noticed (some missions even provide new paths only if you are detected), but it never really becomes a pure stealth game or action game, but rather remains a puzzle game with stealth segments. Of course, for the truly crazy you can do the Silent Assassin, Suit Only thing which essentially turns it into a crazy hard stealth puzzle game.

 

[Saelune]

Basically the games can be outstanding fun but only if you have incredible amounts of patience.

Exactly this. Unfortunately, patience has never really been a virtue of mine.

Patience is the MOST important part of playing stealth games.

 

[TheFinish]

I've not played every stealth game in the last ten years, but is definitely one of the best, and certainly the best game in the Hitman series.

And to those saying it isn't a stealth game.....why? It has all the hallmarks of one: don't be spotted where you shouldn't be, learn the patrol routes, use your items to reach your goal, exit the level. Now, it adds another layer into the don't be spotted with disguises, true, but there's a reason one of the mainstays in the games has been completing a level "Suit Only", wether self imposed or rewarded (as in this game). And all the levels are more than doable suit only, and greatly entertaining.

 

[sXeth]

Well, it's easily the best Hitman game.

I barely consider it a stealth game though. Most of the time it's more like a point-and-click adventure where you kill people. The combat and conventional stealth mechanics are more supplemental.

Shame about it being always-online though. I wouldn't have payed for it if I'd known it had that bullshit.

Prettymuch, its always seemed more like a puzzle game. Put the items together to solve the puzzle.

You can do the suit-only or whatever and play it in full stealth, but the mechanics around it all feel kind of loose at best.

 

[DoPo]

Basically the games can be outstanding fun but only if you have incredible amounts of patience.

Exactly this. Unfortunately, patience has never really been a virtue of mine.

Patience is the MOST important part of playing stealth games.

Indeed. I really cannot picture a stealth game where you have to be constantly under pressure - it pretty much clashes with the fact that you are concealed and have to thread carefully to maintain that advantage.

IMO, Dishonored is really, really good stealth game. I've not played the newest Hitman, so I cannot compare it but in general, it's really what stealth should be about - you can avoid any confrontation when you are careful. It's actually quite an easy game when you properly do it, yet I still see people complain about how difficult stealth is - the only real explanation I can think of is them rushing around instead of taking their time.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

While I can't comment on Hitman 2016 as I haven't played it, it would have to be REAAAAALLLY freakin' good to compete with Styx: Shards of Darkness for best Stealth Game in the last 10 years.

Note the capitalization of Stealth Game. SSD is one of those pure stealth games, where getting caught puts you into panic mode, as you're one skinny little goblin who gets killed in seconds if spotted. It literally maps QuickSave to Dpad-Left for crying out loud.

Where SSD really shines, though, is in two main things. 1) Impressively spacious and vertical game design, allowing you to climb all over the place and under tables and cracks and basically anywhere a goblin could go, and 2) giving the player a metric ton of options for stealth.

Seriously, at the start of the game, things feel really tight and tough, but by the mid-game you've got more than enough tools to subvert any problem with the right creativity. Instakill crossbow shots? Got 'em. Darts that non-lethally distract a guy for a solid 8 seconds? Got 'em. Mines that kill even armored foes and disssolve their bodies? Yup! Temporary invisibility? Got it. Ability to carry a stack of distraction items? Done. Attract a guy's attention by whistling, making him come check out the area, panicking as he sees a coprse and pulling an alarm bell that you booby trapped to fall on top of him? Done. Dropping down 2 floors and breaking your fall by stabbing a guy as you fall? Yup. You can craft these tools in various places around the level so you can re-supply mid-mission? Yup.

All this on top of the series's most iconic ability, the Clone? Very yes. You can send out an expendable clone to get an army chasing it, then swap control back to Styx and run past the guys who are busy killing the clone. You can explode them into a smoke cloud. You can THROW a clone to a hard to reach area to do stuff for you. You can get an ability to teleport to the cloe you just threw, skipping a tricky area with a well-aimed throw, etc. Or, if the enemy has sounded the alarm, hide someplace, send out the clone, have it get attention and get killed, and then grin as there's about a 95% chance that the enemy will go "Welp, we killed the goblin, good jub guys, let's not be on high alert anymore".

Between the fantastic level design, the varied objectives, the optional challenges (that unlock more skill points to get more useful abilities), and the huge amount of options you have at your fingertips, I honestly have not had more fun with a stealth game since Thief 3 than I did with Styx Shards of Darkness.

So, while I haven't played Hitmat 2016 yet, it would REALLY have to be amazing to compete with styx.

 

[TheFinish]

Snip

Having played both, I found Hitman to be the better one. Just as good level design, tons more replayability, and a much more balanced experience. Styx has some skills that are just plain better than others, and for the most part equipment plays no part in the game. Now, it's certainly fun, no doubt, but it's also way easier to cheese, and the late game is far too easy with all the skills you've acquired.

Also I didn't like that you can just spontaneously retrain your skills, but that's just a pet peeve of mine and no fault of the game.

 

[jademunky]

Between the fantastic level design, the varied objectives, the optional challenges (that unlock more skill points to get more useful abilities), and the huge amount of options you have at your fingertips, I honestly have not had more fun with a stealth game since Thief 3 than I did with Styx Shards of Darkness.

So, while I haven't played Hitmat 2016 yet, it would REALLY have to be amazing to compete with styx.

Speaking as someone who loved the hell out of Thief 3 but was pretty meh about Styx: Master of Shadows, how does it sit compared to Shards of Darkness? If they kept the character but gave some more varied environments and maybe a better supporting cast I was considering picking it up.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Speaking as someone who loved the hell out of Thief 3 but was pretty meh about Styx: Master of Shadows, how does it sit compared to Shards of Darkness? If they kept the character but gave some more varied environments and maybe a better supporting cast I was considering picking it up.

Shards of Darkness is a straight upgrade over Master of Shadows.

Environments are larger with way more paths and options for stealth. The first game had tons of "bottlenecks" where you had only one or two paths, Shards of darkness had maybe 2 small ones in the entire game, and due to the reworked tools/crafting you'll basically always have enough tools on hand to mcgyver your way out of a situation.

And there's a lot more variety. Yes there's still a lot of "mountainous stone town" but even within it there's a lot of different-looking areas and objectives. They do recycle some of the areas again, but a lot less than the previous game and with objectives that radically change the way you approach them.

As for supporting cast, it's an improvement too. Your "mission control" partner you see between missions is really great, and the villains and side characters are all pretty memorable and fun to watch. Not to mention Styx is more fun and funny in general (although the game over screens where he shatters the fourth wall with no remorse whatsoever might be a little much)

 

[jademunky]

As for supporting cast, it's an improvement too. Your "mission control" partner you see between missions is really great, and the villains and side characters are all pretty memorable and fun to watch. Not to mention Styx is more fun and funny in general (although the game over screens where he shatters the fourth wall with no remorse whatsoever might be a little much)

Okay, that actually sounds good. Styx needs someone whom he can play off conversationwise and it helps if it be a more outwardly sincere type character.

The lack of bottlenecks sounds great too. His prior game did have way too many "you must make it THROUGH this cluster of guards rather than past them" moments.

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

I haven't played the latest yet but it's near the top of my list when I build a new PC. Hitman is one of those games where it's almost more fun to watch than to play though based on the earlier games; at least until you're at the point you have a well-executed plan. Until then it always feels like you don't really know what's going to happen, which to me doesn't feel very Hitman-like.

That's why I think these games would benefit greatly from a pre-hit phase with more robust planning options. If that's not always possible due to x number of urgencies, then I think the game mechanics need to be more accommodating. He should be able to move like John Wick if needed (he may be a test tube baby but he's still not a robot), and be able to use any number of contextual props in the environments to better facilitate his goals. For example, say he was in a diner and his plan goes south; he should be able to quick grab a pot of hot coffee from a passing waitress to throw at someone's face or smash a chair over their head. Basically have a much broader range of improvisation if there isn't going to be room to plan.

I guess my main complaint about the series is it feels too binary and mechanical in both design and the controls. It'd be much better if both of those things felt more organic. Although maybe it does in the 2016 one; it's too tough to tell from merely watching.