Homophobia in a university newspaper, as well as other things!?

[Galletea]

Either you censor everything or nothing. And I'd prefer the latter but I know that people are so busy being offended on behalf of other people, so we have to limit these things.

However, nothing happens in this strip. People are getting offended over nothing.
This strip is more of a comment on homophobic parents than gays. It says nothing about homosexuality, nothing at all. Grow up people, or at least find something worthwhile to petition about.

I'm more offended that it thinks it is funny.

 

[AngloDoom]

Personally, I thought the comic was making the father out to sound ridiculous, and that the 'fruit' punchline was just bizarrely out of place.

Maybe it's because of the company I keep, but when a father threatens to kill their son due to sexual preference in a comic, I can't help but think we're satirising the father as being ignorant.

Probably not a great joke for a university paper, but I don't see it as condoning the father's view.

EDIT -

I just want to add to the person who said it isn't homophobic. I assume you aren't gay yourself, because as a gay person I can categorically say that it IS homophobic.

I don't mean to come across as attacking you or anything, but please don't speak on behalf of a group of people because you happen to be a part of it. It doesn't make you any more an authority on the subject that a black individual going "I say ****** all the time, what's wrong with it?"

 

[S_SienZ]

That's kinda silly.

If I draw a comic making fun of Hitler does that make it a Nazi comic?

 

[FitScotGaymer]

Speaking of which, is there ANY conclusive evidence that you CANNOT change your sexual orientation?

Another thing about that argument that bugs me(and ties into my question): I never hear about anyone complaining about how child molesters were BORN attracted to children.

As far as I know homosexuality was declared a developmental thing with a possible, slight contribution from a genetic factor.

I could be wrong though. The articles shown to me on the subject were from a year and a half ago, hence why I ask.

Oh my god.

Seriously?

Only right wing "scientists" declared homosexuality to be a "developmental thing" every single legitimate psychologist and geneticist agrees that sexuality is largely genetic, and the influence development has on it is one of degrees.

As a gay person I can genuinely say with all seriousness that I did not and do not choose to be gay.

Trust me with people like you about id rather be straight and "normal" if only to stop having to put up with crap like this, put up with people like you comparing people like me to rapists and peadophiles.

I don't think I have ever a more horribly offensive and ignorant post on these forums on all the time ive been lurking and posting here.

EDIT:
@AngloDoom

I wasn't and am not speaking on behalf of anyone.

I was speaking from experience, how it feels to be subjected to crap like that. Having it implied we should all be murdered, and he accept it cos its only a joke.
Or that we are comparable to rapists, or peadophiles.

And so on.

It feels like hatred, and prejudice based on sexuality to me. Thus my statement that my experience as a gay tells me that it IS homophobic. Because hey, ive been on the recieving end of abuse like that before and probably will again so I know what it looks like and how it feels.

 

[Eternal_Lament]

Poorly written, but not really homophobic. We're not given the sense that the father is one we should be idolizing, in fact he seems to be drawn to be somewhat grotesque. You know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of that really stupid joke that Tracey Morgan did about what he'd do if his son was gay. I'd argue that the point may have been to criticize that type of parenting, but it shoots itself in the foot by being so vague. Either a different closing panel or even some message at the bottom like "Parenting as seen in the Bible Belt" could have easily made that point.

Whether or not the person should lose their job is difficult. On the one hand it's only a student newspaper, so I doubt it's going to have a big impact on the artist if they have to leave. On the other, if they were to be fired for anything I'd rather they be fired for not doing a good job rather than this.

 

[Alcaste]

The comic would be satirical of the father's ignorance if the child wasn't the one that made the punchline. As it is, the comic itself is homophobic.

Not sure what else there is to discuss on that.

 

[Eccentric Lich]

Sexualality, race, gender, whatever. It's all fair game for jokes as long as there isn't malicious intent behind it. People are making too big a deal of this. As other posters have said, it's more of a jab at homophobes. It's shock humor and people just need to deal with it.

What I really have a problem with is remarks like this:

I just want to add to the person who said it isn't homophobic. I assume you aren't gay yourself, because as a gay person I can categorically say that it IS homophobic.

I'm gay and I don't need you getting offended on my behalf. You're not endowed with some divine power of judgement to say what is definitively homophobic and what isn't just because you're gay. Again, it's about the intent behind the joke.

I also find it odd that you felt the need to include your sexual orientation in your user name too. That and your vehement response to this joke leads me to believe that you're making being gay into too big a part of your identity.

 

[runic knight]

the comic? Not really homophobic, just kinda crappy, and in poor taste for a university paper.

As for freedom of speech though, well all that means is that people have the right to say what they want free of government restriction or legal action, save the occurrences that violate other rights (such as open threats, shouting fire in a crowded theater, things like that, that could cause very real harm to others as a result of their panic or reaction). So, it means you have every right to say whatever hateful bigoted shit you want.
This does not mean that your own words can't get your as in trouble though. Nothing protects you from putting your foot in your mouth or bearing the reactions to your words. If you say you hate black people and your boss doesn't like that attitude, it is not violating your freedom of speech to fire your ass. Nothing is stopping you from your opinion but nothing is forcing people to accept it either, and there in lies point many miss. If a university doesn't want a homophobic comic to represent their school, they are well within their right to fire the editor if they want. Freedom of speech has NEVER included forcing someone to give you a forum to speak, only they couldn't silence your opinion itself.
To put it another way, if you have freedom of speech and you want to write "I hate gays" on a chalkboard on your lawn, that is in your right (public city ordinances and what not not considered for this example). You can't go over and write it on my chalk board on my property though, as that is no longer a matter of free speech, that is you trying to push your opinion as representative of me.

 

[FluxCapacitor]

Personally, I thought the comic was making the father out to sound ridiculous, and that the 'fruit' punchline was just bizarrely out of place.

Maybe it's because of the company I keep, but when a father threatens to kill their son due to sexual preference in a comic, I can't help but think we're satirising the father as being ignorant.

Probably not a great joke for a university paper, but I don't see it as condoning the father's view.

It's totally homophobic - anyone saying that the father is the butt of the joke is missing how hard the cartoonist has worked to make that not be the case. The father threatens to kill his son if he's gay, and the SON delivers the punchline, then they both laugh about it. How is the dad the awkward butt of the joke here? The son doesn't put Dad in his place or contradict him in any way, instead they both have a good chuckle at the thought of a gay person being shot and rolled in a carpet for disposal. The strip tries really really hard to normalise the attitude presented, and passing it on to your children. This thing isn't as hateful as a Chick Tract, but it's pointed in that direction.

So where's the offensive part? The part where they implied violence against homosexuals? Because that seemed more like it was taking the piss out of ultra-conservative parents. The part where he said "fruit"? How the fuck is "fruit" offensive? Should we change the category of apples and pears to "the other vegetables" to be politically correct? Oh, no, wait, that might offend people in a vegetative state.

But, seriously, freedom of speech and all. If whoever owns the newspaper decides to fire this guy, good for him. If not, just stop buying his fucking newspaper.

And let's not pretend that 'fruit' as a derogatory name for gay people isn't a massively loaded term. It's not nearly as bad as '******', but it absolutely comes with overtones. If you don't know this, you need to learn a lot more about the issue, and if you do know this you're just being facetious.

Let me put it this way to the heteronormative nay says in the thread.

If that comic said something along the lines of...

"Son if you every bring home a black girlfriend I will shoot you dead..."
"Shoot her dead..."
"Roll you both up in the carpet, and bury you in the yard..."
"Oh! Well I guess that's what you would call a minstrel sandwich then..."
"HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!!"

What would your response be then?

Basically exactly this. Folks are getting a lot better at recognising the concept of white privilege these days, but so many just don't get straight privilege. And don't even get me started on male privilege... (FWIW straight white guy here)


Am I saying this cartoonist ought to burn in hell? Of course not. Am I hoping that he gets the message that this sort of thing isn't acceptable in the university newspaper? Absolutely. The whole thing reminds me of a similar situation I once heard of where a uni paper tried to run the headline "Rape is Wonderful" over a darkly satirical piece of creative writing. Anyone gonna leap to that one's defense?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Looks like someone was trying to be cyanide and happiness and failed horribly...

This is pretty offensive I can't understand why anyone would let this go to print.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

You ever think maybe that some people like to identify themselves as a Gaymer so they can then find and play with people who won't negatively judge them for who they are on internet forums huh HUH...and don't even say 'Well he shouldn't have called himself that then' because he shouldn't have to be worried about being harassed in the first place.

If you are arguing that gay is the same as pedophile because they have a sexual preference then by that logic straight people are the same as pedophiles too. Aren't they.

 

[Athinira]

There is a difference between a joke and hate speech.

I'd say that a comic that depicts threats of killing someone for their sexual orientation qualifies as hate speech - at least in the way that this comic does it. They use a follow-up joke to distract us from the initial message, but the initial message "We'll shoot you if you're gay" (or "gays deserve to be shot" or "Punish your kid if they're gay" or however you interpret it) is still passed on to readers

You can't truly believe this is an example of hate speech can you? Sure, it isn't particularly funny, but i think it's a bit far to brand it as hate speech.

Edited for miss quote

Actually throwing in an end joke after a (unpopular) message is a common writers trick to attempt to throw people off while still getting their message out subliminally. Stand-Up comedians use this all the time.

I'm not saying this isn't a joke, but if it was intended to be, it was written very poorly. Fact is, it's impossible for us to tell.

Captcha: arma geddon <-- No sh*t!

 

[rutger5000]

How many homosexuals are actually offended by this? I don't think we ought to blow this out of proportion without a great deal of homosexuals complaining about it.
If there are a great deal of homosexuals complaining about it, then this would be my response.
Pfff I've seen worse, doesn't make me feel anything at all. I agree that the characters are saying gays ought to be shot. But the cartoonist gives no value to that statement. He's not agreeing or disagree with them
I know too many closet gays to truly give a damm about gay-rights. To me this reaction seems like homosexuals victimising themselves. As much of a bastard this may make me, I feel many homosexuals do that way too much with the whole 'sexual orientation is not a choice' thing. If you say that you're threathing your homosexuality as a dissease or something, it isn't.

 

[BOOM headshot65]

.....I misread that shirt as saying "God hates Flags". Oddly the fact it was the Westboro Baptists didn't make me think it was wrong.

As a Kansan living less than half an hour away from these morons, It wouldnt suprise me either, since they have a history of burning, stomping on, and otherwise desicrating the American Flag (They say it is the symbol of worship for a country that has become Gods enemy). I have no love for them. They came to my university afew days ago to protest General Martin Dempsey[footnote]As in, leader of the Joint Cheifs of Staff, meaning he is in charge of EVERY SINGLE SOLDIER, TANK, SHIP, AND PLANE in the ENTIRE military.[/footnote] giving a speech here. They were doing thier usual thing, and they had to stand off to the side, and had police around.....to protect THEM from maybe students and definately soldiers.

OT: I dont really see how this is Homophobic. In bad taste, yes. But not really homophobic, and I think people who are calling it that are just overreacting. He has the right to print that, but he better believe he is going to get shit over it.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

How is pointing out that saying being gay is 'curable' is completely offensive (which it is) harassment. If anything you are getting twitchy at him being gay and calling himself a gaymer. That shouldn't even bother you.

I don't think you can say pedophiles and gays are 'minorities' therefore they are the same. That's just ridiculous logic. In that they are a sexual preference they are comparable but like I said being straight is a sexual preference too. Trying to prove me wrong with semantics just falls flat.

 

[runic knight]

snip

You ever think maybe that some people like to identify themselves as a Gaymer so they can then find and play with people who won't negatively judge them for who they are on internet forums huh HUH...and don't even say 'Well he shouldn't have called himself that then' because he shouldn't have to be worried about being harassed in the first place.

And by whom is he being harassed here? If anything he's been harassing others. But aside from that, why don't you take issue with the other homosexual who said the same? Because I must be automatically in the wrong because I'm not gay, huh?

If you are arguing that gay is the same as pedophile because they have a sexual preference then by that logic straight people are the same as pedophiles too. Aren't they.

No, but that's not what I said. I said it's compareable. And yes, I would be too. Except Pedophiles and Gays are both minorities, so they compare even better. Too bad, you really thought you were being clever too. Looks like you were wrong.

Not quite "better", as being a minority or a majority is irrelevant if the only point of comparison being stressed is the aspect of being born with the attraction to same gender/children/other gender. Along that line, any sort of philia would probably have been comparable. Being straight may have actually been a better choice for both a comparison most likely to be familiar to the people reading it (as most are straight), for the lack of direct connection to criminal and immoral behavior in the public opinion (founded or unfounded in reality), and for the lack of being a loaded term that causes this sort of pointless bickering.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Wait how is that homophobic? Nothing is being said about homsexuals . Just that perticular parent that their kid .

Did...did you read the comic? The one about a parent telling his son, "If you turn out gay, I will murder you"? And then the followup being the son making a lousy play on words?

I don't know about you, but treating the subject of parents who react violently to their children being gay as nothing but hilarious is kind of offensive.

Also , is it bad that i actually found that funny?

Kind of, yes. If only because it was built around a terrible pun, and I mean 'terrible' even by pun standards. If your joke revolves around a parent threatening to murder their child, and the child immediately responding "That reminds me of a candy I like," then you're a lousy comedian.

Example: A doctor tells his patient, "I'm sorry to tell you this, but the tests came back positive for lung cancer."

The patient replies, "Cancer? I hardly know her!"

And then they both laugh.

Capcha : Bone dry .

Lol , the capcha made me lol too! I guess capcha is a homophobe now right?

...ah. So you laughed at the word 'bone.' I really ought to've skipped right to this sentence. It would've told me everything I needed to know about the above post.

There is plenty of things about gay people to make jokes about; hell Will and Grace was pretty much a show that was one entire gay and jew joke from beginning to end. Making jokes about murdering us for ust existing is not funny and not acceptable.

Exactly. The problem isn't making a joke that involves someone being gay. To use your Will and Grace example, imagine if this exchange had taken place in the show:

"Alright, I've got the pizza. How long does it need to go in the oven for?"

"Geez, are you serious? I thought after World War 2, Jews knew all the ins-and-outs of ovens. Or at least the ins."

*laughtrack*

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Ridiculing someone because you can't win an argument, classy.

If anything you are trying to backpedal. You associated his sexuality to pedophilia to try and give it negative connotations and now you are trying to say you 'didn't mean it like that' Uh huh.

Things don't work that way, people are allowed to hate you. I also don't see what you find so attractive in a dick.

This part gives you away I'm afraid. I hate to break it to you but hating on gay people doesn't achieve anything. People are still going to be gay whether you like it or not. So why not make the world a nicer place and live and let live.