Homosexuality in ME3

[warrcry13]

I have only one problem with it. When a character who has been written as straight suddenly decides he is gonna hit on my maleshep. It's going to ruin it for me. I wouldn't care if theyw ere written as gay or bi from the beginning. As soon as Garrus hits on my maleshep I'm gonna be angry. Or hell as soon as Ashley hit on my femshep I'll be pissed.

Only because it isn't a logical step in character progression. I had the same problem with Anders in DA2.

 

[HHammond]

snip

Nor have you implied they are just as "bad" as homosexual romances.

And your argument that using "off screen stuff is BS" is bull shit itself. Some people like to add layers to their character. Loads of people like to make detailed backstories for their characters in RPGs and Shepard is no exception. Even if you did say it was BS, then Shepard still can be gay. How do you know my Shepard isn't gay if he has never had a relationship with a women and even told Liara in Mass Effect 1 that he was "interested in men"? That last bit, that quote from his mouth, confirms that it is highly possible for Shepard to be potentially gay. Furthermore, you have no evidence from the game that says Shepard isn't at least bisexual. Sure, he's had relationships with women but he could just as easily be bisexual but never met a guy he was into. Where's your proof he isn't bisexual?

 

[Bradeck]

I am not gay, but I seriously hope that the gay love scene in ME3 is the longest, most erotic, filthy, sweaty, moaner of a sex scene ever put in pixels. Like Alpa Chino says in Tropic Thunder, "I love da pussy!" but I really hope the gayness permeates the entire game, and thus works it's way into everything. Gays and homosexuals need to be normalized, and not feared.

Thus, I look forward to seeing Gordon Freeman having a freaky three way with Dog and Dr. Kliner. I want Jim Raynor to turn the bridge of his cruiser into a Santorum factory. I want Dan Savage to take over as the voice and body double for Batman in the next Arkham game. If we keep ignoring it and fearing it, it will never be accepted.

Again, I'm not gay, but I love the fact that they are FINALLY getting some level of acceptance in games other then villains or joke characters.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

No, it wasn't a serious comment about the krogans and geth. It was sarcasm. My point was that by what seems to be your definition of pandering ANYTHING can constitute it.

If you want an action game, then play the action story. If you don't want to see same sex romance, then don't romance a same sex partner. If you think for a second that your bigoted and rude should impact any other demographic then you are very ignorant indeed.

Ah, so we have finally resorted to name calling the other side, have we? Well name calling/personal attacks are uncalled for. You can disagree with what I have typed without resorting to calling me names/insulting me personally because I don't agree with you.

Obviously what I typed doesn't have any affect on the ME series, I never claimed it did. In fact, as I pointed out earlier, I was just making a observation. It was you that made this into a debate, not me.

This will not effect you in the slightest. You can ignore it to your homophobic, bigoted heart's desire.

Again with using personal insults to attack me, rather than engaging in debate. smh

And just to clear it up before you jump in and say "so anyone who doesn't do same sex is homophobic" not that is not what I'm saying, most people who ignore it probably aren't but the way you are vocalising your opinion does point to you being so.

No, I know what homophobia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego-dystonic_sexual_orientation] is so I'm not to worried about your misuse of the word to make personal attacks against me because I don't agree with you.

lol, I'm not a homophobic person if I don't express my opinion, but if I do then I'm homophobic? What? So by that logic, if the KKK hates Black people because their
African-American but doesn't express their opinions, are they not racist? Logic fail.

Also as I stated before, I made a passing comment which most people ignored. It was you that felt like "vocalizing" your opinion to me, not the other way around.

And I'm not saying use synonyms to soften your hateful words. I was trying to show you that being ignorant and offensive is not going to help you and there are alternatives that won't display your ignorance when you think it's acceptable to use terms like you have used.

Hateful words? I don't hate homosexuals, I'm just not attracted to the idea of men kissing(or doing much more).

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

snip

Nor have you implied they are just as "bad" as homosexual romances.

And your argument that using "off screen stuff is BS" is bull shit itself. Some people like to add layers to their character. Loads of people like to make detailed backstories for their characters in RPGs and Shepard is no exception. Even if you did say it was BS, then Shepard still can be gay. How do you know my Shepard isn't gay if he has never had a relationship with a women and even told Liara in Mass Effect 1 that he was "interested in men"? That last bit, that quote from his mouth, confirms that it is highly possible for Shepard to be potentially gay. Furthermore, you have no evidence from the game that says Shepard isn't at least bisexual. Sure, he's had relationships with women but he could just as easily be bisexual but never met a guy he was into. Where's your proof he isn't bisexual?

The burden of proof is not on me to prove a negative.

 

[Mark Hardigan]

Given that bioware romances are optional, I find all the arguments against there being homosexuality in ME3 to be nothing less than juvenile homophobia.

 

[HHammond]

Snip

Yes, because calling homosexuals "repulsive" wasn't at all offensive and close to "name calling". And it isn't "name calling" because I'm pointing out a fact. Your words have undoubtedly shown a hateful attitude towards homosexuals. And I am not misusing the word homophobic [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobic].

And I believe I was still engaging in the debate but as you seemed to have missed this point I will repeat it: homosexuality in Mass Effect 3 is OPTIONAL. Therefore, YOU NEED NOT EXPERIENCE IT.

There is no doubt that what you are saying is homophobic. You have pretty much said that straight romances are okay but homosexual ones aren't. That is homophobic. It is homophobic in the same way it would be racist to say white marriages are okay, but black people getting married are not.

When I said "vocalising" I was referring to the way you where saying it. You weren't saying "I'm uncomfortable with homosexuals" you where saying "they are repulsive". Furthermore, you are saying they do not have the right to appear in the game. And I didn't say a person wasn't homophobic if they ignore it, I said that if they didn't want to experience it and ignored it, that's fine, going onto a forum and saying things like you have been saying is homophobia.

You made a passing comment. Okay, I disagreed. I voiced my disagreement. I was not referring to this. I was referring to the fact that you voiced your opinion in the context and way you did which indicated that you where homophobic.

The burden of proof is not on me to prove a negative.

Okay then, what proof do you have that Shepard isn't bisexual? That he is completely straight? Because there isn't any, but if you play the game a certain way you can be provided with concrete prove that Shepard is in fact gay.

 

[The Shadowlord]

I see complaining about homosexuality in Mass Effect to be the exact same as complaining about homosexuality in real life. It's there, but nobody is forcing you into it, so stop with your whining and go flirt with Tali or something.

 

[Coldster]

As long as you can CHOOSE what sexuality Shepard is, I don't have any problems with it. Oh, but Bioware better make sure that just because I make Shepard the "nice guy" that he doesn't automatically turn gay or something stupid like that. I'm straight, I'm a nice guy, I have a girlfriend, and I have 100% respect for gay people. However, I've been asked if I was gay far too many times to the point where it has started to upset me. I'm sure Bioware is fully aware of their situation and they will handle it appropriately.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Yes, because calling homosexuals "repulsive" wasn't at all offensive and close to "name calling".

What? I typed that the act of two men kissing is repulsive, not that Homosexuals are repulsive. I have nothing against gay men, I just find them making out, to be a repulsive action.

And it isn't "name calling" because I'm pointing out a fact. Your words have undoubtedly shown a hateful attitude towards homosexuals. And I am not misusing the word homophobic [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobic].

A fact? Really? So point out where I said I hate homosexuals, that I have a fear of homosexuals, or that I am afraid that I might be homosexual. As for you link, what I'm referring to is covered right here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia#Internalized_homophobia].

And I believe I was still engaging in the debate but as you seemed to have missed this point I will repeat it: homosexuality in Mass Effect 3 is OPTIONAL. Therefore, YOU NEED NOT EXPERIENCE IT.

There is no doubt that what you are saying is homophobic. You have pretty much said that straight romances are okay but homosexual ones aren't.

Let me clear this up then, I don't want any kind of romance in the sci-fi action game. Leave that for games like Heavy Rain.

That is homophobic. It is homophobic in the same way it would be racist to say white marriages are okay, but black people getting married are not.

When I said "vocalising" I was referring to the way you where saying it. You weren't saying "I'm uncomfortable with homosexuals" you where saying "they are repulsive".

Once again, I'm not repulsed by homosexuals, just men kissing.

Furthermore, you are saying they do not have the right to appear in the game.

Please find that quote where I clearly stated that homosexuals should not be aloud to be in ME. The only thing I stated was that I don't want to see men kiss.

And I didn't say a person wasn't homophobic if they ignore it, I said that if they didn't want to experience it and ignored it, that's fine, going onto a forum and saying things like you have been saying is homophobia.

My original comment only referred to Shepard, it had nothing to do with homosexuality as a whole.

You made a passing comment. Okay, I disagreed. I voiced my disagreement. I was not referring to this. I was referring to the fact that you voiced your opinion in the context and way you did which indicated that you where homophobic.

Again, I don't hate or fear homosexuals, nor am I worried that I might be a homosexual in denial. Also you can disagree with me all you want, my comment was still a passing one. We are referring to a game after all, so everything I type should be taken with a hand-full of salt.

Okay then, what proof do you have that Shepard isn't bisexual?

Did you seriously just acknowledge my quote, then ask the same question again? smh.

That he is completely straight? Because there isn't any, but if you play the game a certain way you can be provided with concrete prove that Shepard is in fact gay.

Is there a male-to-male romance option in ME prior to ME 3? No there wasn't. The final version of the game(1&2) didn't have it as an option.

 

[cairocat]

This subject sure gets a lot of attention. Why do people care so much about one programed image "dating" another image, because they resemble two of the same gender?

Well, the same reason they care about how many programmed images another programmed image can shoot before reloading. Or, say, how many different places a programmed image travels through before it defeats another programmed image.

You putting it in those terms makes me wonder why you are on a gaming site.

 

[HHammond]

Is there a male-to-male romance option in ME prior to ME 3? No there wasn't. The final version of the game didn't have it as an option.

So what? Doesn't mean Shepard didn't remain celibate, waiting for the right man to sweep him off his feet. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't ever. It's a little thing called character development. It could be that Shepard knows he's gay and just hasn't had anyone he felt special enough to be with or perhaps that he didn't think he was gay but he met someone which changed his mind. Happens all the time. Someone goes through life, saying they're straight then they meet someone who is the same sex as them but they cannot fight the fact that they are in love with one another. Even if you are only referring to Shepard it is still homophobic. Shepard may have not had any homosexual encounters up until now but he's still a pretty young guy. And more to the point he's an empty vessel. You pour every attribute you want into the character. Is he nice or blunt? Is he caring or violent? Is he interested in relationships or not? Is even interested in sex at all? Every part of Shepard is changeable according to whoever is playing him. Just because he hasn't done something yet doesn't mean he won't.

And you never directly stated "I hate gays", true, but you have implied that homosexual relationships do not deserve the same chance as straight ones in Mass Effect. That is homophobic. Plain and simple. And the word homophobia still fits. Just because you choose one more exclusive definition doesn't change the fact it ALSO means prejudice against homosexuals.

You are now saying you don't want any relationships in Mass Effect, which you hadn't up until this point, which is fair enough but you know what? I'm done with this. We're not going to reach any sort of agreement. Its time we went our separate ways.

EDIT: One quick thing I'd also like to add before I go: so it's not okay to pander to people who want relationships but is okay to pander to the shooters? It's okay that they put in loads of setpieces and action but pandering to gays is wrong?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Is there a male-to-male romance option in ME prior to ME 3? No there wasn't. The final version of the game didn't have it as an option.

So what? Doesn't mean Shepard didn't remain celibate, waiting for the right man to sweep him off his feet. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't ever. It's a little thing called character development. It could be that Shepard knows he's gay and just hasn't had anyone he felt special enough to be with or perhaps that he didn't think he was gay but he met someone which changed his mind. Happens all the time. Someone goes through life, saying they're straight then they meet someone who is the same sex as them but they cannot fight the fact that they are in love with one another. Even if you are only referring to Shepard it is still homophobic.

HOW am I homophobic? At what point did I express hate, or fear of homosexuals? At what point did I imply that I was concerned that I might be homosexual?

Shepard may have not had any homosexual encounters up until now but he's still a pretty young guy. And more to the point he's an empty vessel. You pour every attribute you want into the character. Is he nice or blunt? Is he caring or violent? Is he interested in relationships or not? Is even interested in sex at all? Every part of Shepard is changeable according to whoever is playing him. Just because he hasn't done something yet doesn't mean he won't.

Nice, but it's all just speculation. Also, you continue to ignore it, but the burden of proof is still on you.

And you never directly stated "I hate gays", true, but you have implied that homosexual relationships do not deserve the same chance as straight ones in Mass Effect.

I also clarified that I don't want heterosexual relationships in the game because I don't think its the right game for such a thing. As I said Heavy Rain would be a great game to cover such a topic(see:relationship(s)).

That is homophobic. Plain and simple. And the word homophobia still fits. Just because you choose one more exclusive definition doesn't change the fact it ALSO means prejudice against homosexuals.

You can continue to insist what my personal feelings are, but its still just you telling me what my feelings are.

You are now saying you don't want any relationships in Mass Effect, which you hadn't up until this point, which is fair enough but you know what? I'm done with this. We're not going to reach any sort of agreement. Its time we went our separate ways.

Good, it was silly for you to focus on my small comment to begin with.

EDIT: One quick thing I'd also like to add before I go: so it's not okay to pander to people who want relationships but is okay to pander to the shooters? It's okay that they put in loads of setpieces and action but pandering to gays is wrong?

Yeah, its ok for a action/shooting GAME to pander to people who like action and shooting. Just like its ok for a game that focuses on atmosphere/relationships(see:Heavy Rain) to pander to people that like atmosphere and relationships(which could be either homosexual or heterosexual).

 

[Bradeck]

Fun fact - not all gay people are into anal sex. Also, there's a number of straight people who are all sorts of into it.

*waves*

I am not gay, but I seriously hope that the gay love scene in ME3 is the longest, most erotic, filthy, sweaty, moaner of a sex scene ever put in pixels. Like Alpa Chino says in Tropic Thunder, "I love da pussy!" but I really hope the gayness permeates the entire game, and thus works it's way into everything. Gays and homosexuals need to be normalized, and not feared.

Implying that displaying the most savage and filthy aspects of a sexuality is the way to have it "normalized". How about displaying it in, oh I don't know, exactly the same way as all the other ones.. And yes, having it "permeate the entire game" will totally not piss people off who avoided relationships and any degree of sexuality all together because they just wanted to play a nice space-based action game with fun combat and an enjoyable story.

Bullshit. Between Sheps armored abs, every major female have Dead Duck Double D tits, and ALL THE SEX IN THE GAME, the Mass Effect series is just as trashy as a midnight romance novel, only it's designed for sexually repressed teen males and early adults. Sex is about 25-50% of the game. The whole time your not fighting, you are literally seducing aliens or co-workers. Shep is about as close to the nerd's depiction of an alpha male as you can get. Don't bore me with your bullshit about a space fighting sim. If that's truly your reason for playing it, you're in the minority.

All I am saying, is you can't say sex is not a major factor of the game, and then when they try to introduce one single gay option, and then have everyone loose their frickin minds.

Hell of a lot of repressive homophobic urges behind this attack on Jennifer whats her name. A hell of a lot.

And for the record, sex can be filthy without being degrading. Just because you it's savage doesn't mean it's wrong. Full on fucking can be considered savage. Look at what Jack did to Shep in ME2. That was called "hate fucking" boys and girls. And furthermore, permeating the game does not mean becoming the sole focus of the game, but rather all the sex that is sold in that game can swing both ways. Maybe a few male strippers? Maybe it doesn't have to be hushed and in a corner where it can be done and repressed, so no one ever talks about it again.

Captcha: Devout Centaur

 

[Goofguy]

Now the thing is, they missed the mark. The coming out story is not appropriate with the pace or context. If they wanted to do that, they needed to do it in Mass Effect 2 or 1, not shoe horn it in at the end.

Agreed. Realistically, when the fate of the galaxy falls on one person, I'd think that they would be pretty much fully committed to the monumental task at hand. I feel as though flirting anew with squad mates in the epic, final chapter takes away from the pacing of the story. Having that established love interest from the 1st and/or 2nd game is completely feasible as time does not need to be spent getting to know/courting them.

That being said, I have no problem with homosexuality in games. To me though, it just seems a little bit late to be introducing it to the series (except for the FemShep/Liara coupling, of course).

Oh and one last thought, I really hope Bioware didn't decide to suddenly make all ME3 squad mates bisexual (a la DA2). It just smacks of "we made ourselves appear contemporary and we didn't have to tax our writers".