Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
- Thread starter Vault101
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Not so much trolling as looking at something objectively.
Something new comes out an idea, a life style, music or a dance form, a religion or just whatever. The many weak minded grasp on to so that can belong. It's how humans are most like to part of a pack or team that are like them.
Its not hard to see why a bunch of books, movies, shows and other forms of media talk about being gay or as I see it letting ones sexual orientation defined how one acts in life. Its like being German in 1940's if you where German you where a Nazi. If you where Russian in the 1950's that made you a commie. People let a political idea defined themselves. They all had weak minds.
I don't doubt there are good numbers of gays in the USA and the world. But I just can't help but notice how a bunch of teens both girls and boys say there gay and love the attention they get from there classmates because its the in thing to do. But that attention will fades a few months later and then there magically bie or hetero or the newest for of sex definition that is flavor of the week.
I know there have been some famous fokes that happened to be gay hell one of the inverters of the code breaking system in the 1940's that help build the first computer was gay and was in bondage. But he is not important because he was day is was important because he was good at math and helped build a binary coding system that lead to one of first computer.
I am just saying I think its nature because its a fad and a lot of young fokes are going to come to earth smashing conclusion that there not gay when there 30 and that there marriage is something of sham.
Something new comes out an idea, a life style, music or a dance form, a religion or just whatever. The many weak minded grasp on to so that can belong. It's how humans are most like to part of a pack or team that are like them.
Its not hard to see why a bunch of books, movies, shows and other forms of media talk about being gay or as I see it letting ones sexual orientation defined how one acts in life. Its like being German in 1940's if you where German you where a Nazi. If you where Russian in the 1950's that made you a commie. People let a political idea defined themselves. They all had weak minds.
I don't doubt there are good numbers of gays in the USA and the world. But I just can't help but notice how a bunch of teens both girls and boys say there gay and love the attention they get from there classmates because its the in thing to do. But that attention will fades a few months later and then there magically bie or hetero or the newest for of sex definition that is flavor of the week.
I know there have been some famous fokes that happened to be gay hell one of the inverters of the code breaking system in the 1940's that help build the first computer was gay and was in bondage. But he is not important because he was day is was important because he was good at math and helped build a binary coding system that lead to one of first computer.
I am just saying I think its nature because its a fad and a lot of young fokes are going to come to earth smashing conclusion that there not gay when there 30 and that there marriage is something of sham.
Thats a wierd thing to say because If it is 100% nature, then its inherently both.theultimateend said:
Peep this. I could being a straight man. Today decide I am going to go sleep with a bunch of guys and become gay. I have the ability to make that choice and it would not be nature at all. There are a lot of lesbians who were secually abused or treated badly and swear of men for that reason.
Yeah I agree that a lot of people would be inhibited against homosexuality but that only seems to make sense when you're talking about closeted bisexuals. An individual might have bisexual tendencies without realising, but with greater inhibition their attraction to the same sex becomes a lot more apparent.incal11 said:Because of this whole discussion I had this idea:Dexiro said:
"apparently (fruit flies) are "turned" by alcohol (lol).
http://sexuality.about.com/b/2008/01/07/gay-drunk-fruit-flies.htm
Reminds me of some behaviors we know, right ?
An hypothesis is: if some of us can be gay while drunk it could mean we are actually inhibited, not pushed, against homosexuality. Which would make sense for encouraging reproductive behavior, extremely sensible topic for most gays but a real aspect of the issue. So maybe some are "born" gays in the sense that their natural inhibition is weaker. It does not explain all cases of homosexuality, but some who may be due to a hormonal imbalance in the mother as some have said here. In conclusion, this would mean that there is really actually no "gay", only a set of rules that normally pushes us to a reproductive behavior.
It doesn't mean it is a crippling condition, a weaker inhibition toward homosexuality has it's role for social bonding in mammals, including humans (until the church came along)."
and more seriously:
http://www.mygenes.co.nz/download.htm
The reason it doesn't work with all cases is because gay people generally wouldn't have any inhibition against heterosexuality, yet they wouldn't have that attraction. It's pretty common for gay people to go through a denial phase where they'll try to force themselves to be attracted to the opposite sex, that doesn't seem compatible with your idea.
Your sexuality isn't defined by who you sleep with, it's defined by who you're attracted to. A straight man could sleep with guys and he'd still be straight, and a gay man could sleep with women and still be gay. You can choose who you sleep with, but you can't choose who you're attracted too.bombadilillo said:
I'd say the bigger things in sexuality, i.e being gay/straight/bi/ whatever along those lines, is all nature, there's a lot of evidence to say it is part of you that is decided from birth along with everyone I have ever met has said they knew they were always into one thing or another.
Smaller things like what people find attractive in their desired partners can be influenced, except I feel that it is more that we are shown what it is expected for us to find attractive, and as such we try to find those people attractive. The best example I can give of this is before I realised I was gay I had several relationships with guys, trying to kid myself into thinking I did find them attractive, but I never really did.
Smaller things like what people find attractive in their desired partners can be influenced, except I feel that it is more that we are shown what it is expected for us to find attractive, and as such we try to find those people attractive. The best example I can give of this is before I realised I was gay I had several relationships with guys, trying to kid myself into thinking I did find them attractive, but I never really did.
I see, good point. Very good.Dexiro said:
However. You don't think you could condition someone to be attracted to same sex that werent before? I don't see why you couldn't...
If you say that you actually mean "nurture", and homosexuality is older than dirt. Still does not mean it's entirely inborn.Raregolddragon said:
A very strong inhibition can explain exclusively heterosexual behavior.Dexiro said:
As for gays' rejection of the other sex that could be explained in plenty of ways compatible with the links I gave earlier. A fear or a strong bia against the opposite sex, a majority of positive experiences with gay sex, the whole gay community and attitude's appeal to the person, and so on...
I'd say as I did above, you can show people and tell them what they should be attracted to, and they may try to find that attractive, but if they don't (or didn't before you tried) Then they never really will.bombadilillo said:
I'm having trouble imagining how homosexuality could be caused due to fear or bias against the opposite sex seeing how it's not too uncommon for gays to have a large amount of female friends, and how almost all gays don't like their sexuality to begin with (hence the denial period) and how a large percentage of gay people don't like what is known as the "gay culture".incal11 said:
I stand by that it only stands up in specific circumstances, namely straight people with undiscovered bisexual tendencies (which isn't too uncommon by the way).
I'm not sure the fruitfly study can even be related to humans that closely. Our minds are a lot more complex. A fruitfly's brain might not have the full capacity to understand sexuality the same way we do, so for them there's a good chance it might just be inhibition. Humans however would work very differently, and the factor of inhibition would be introduced purely by social factors rather than by instinct.
But all studies I have seen indicate that being gay is something you are born as, and I know I was always gay. As for the culture part, I was brought up in a home were being gay was thought to be a sin and wrong, and yet here I am, so I don't think culture affects it at all, I think that is all nature's work.incal11 said:
Why would it decide straight and bi but not gay? That's just being silly.incal11 said:
I'd argue that it decides all 3, but it's not uncommon for the nurture aspect to push people up a notch. Straight becomes bi, bi becomes gay or straight etc. I personally think I was born bi but nurturing nudged me towards becoming gay, but I know their are others out their that were gay from the start.
That actually operates very well with the Kinsey Scale now I think about it ~
I like to think that flamboyant gay people were born gay, while non-flamboyant gay people such as myself were nurtured towards being gay.
I was horribly disgusted with the first page of this thread. It's all dolts screaming Nature without a dam clue.
Firstly how the "frunk" would genes know the difference between men and women? They're just genes. All they can do is release chemicals into body. Things like puberty, fertility and the occasional growth disorder that's it. Remember they're operating blind. They have no idea what the outside world looks like. They can't tell you to like anything. Genes can make you more sexually active but the target of that feeling is up to Nurture.
Secondly if homosexuality were genetic it would be localised to an ethnic group or region. It's not. Homosexuality is too far spread to be genetic. If sexual inclination was genetic chimpanzees, that share 97% of our genetic code, wouldn't want to "frunk" with other chimpanzees only sexy humans. Also if Homosexuality is Nature it would have a gene that could be identified and like all others turned on and off. That just isn't going to happen.
So I've made my points that it's not Nature, so why is it Nurture.
Imagine a baby, it came into the world knowing nothing. What's gravity? how do I control my bowels? are my feet tasty? What is sexy...Men? Women? Dogs? I don't know I'M A BABY!
All infants have to learn the difference between male and female, associate themselves with one and learn what is correct action from others of their gender. All this is done before the child is 5. Believe it or not everyone picks up what is correct for them to be sexually attracted to long before they become sexually active. This is why so many claim "I've always felt gay". Well obviously you didn't think about it when you were 7!! This is where boys and girls need good role models for their gender. To teach them Men are masculine and Women are feminine.
It's not right to say you learn to be gay, but rather that you don't learn to be straight. On failing to pick up a sexual orientation an individual will most likely go for what ever they see others of their peer group doing later in sexual development. Commonly taking a homosexual or bisexual sexual preference.
As I mentioned earlier we associate with figures around us in our formative years and without realising it pick up their behaviours. This does not have to be direct and often very subtle influences will drastically change a persons development. An example would be the predisposition of those abused as children that will do so to their children later in life. Or children of alcoholics having higher tendencies to problems with alcohol. Even if you consciencely don't like the influence you may adopt that behaviour.
I could go on and I might continue this post later, but everyone hates a wall of text.
TLDR It's NURTURE NOT NATURE FOOL!!
Firstly how the "frunk" would genes know the difference between men and women? They're just genes. All they can do is release chemicals into body. Things like puberty, fertility and the occasional growth disorder that's it. Remember they're operating blind. They have no idea what the outside world looks like. They can't tell you to like anything. Genes can make you more sexually active but the target of that feeling is up to Nurture.
Secondly if homosexuality were genetic it would be localised to an ethnic group or region. It's not. Homosexuality is too far spread to be genetic. If sexual inclination was genetic chimpanzees, that share 97% of our genetic code, wouldn't want to "frunk" with other chimpanzees only sexy humans. Also if Homosexuality is Nature it would have a gene that could be identified and like all others turned on and off. That just isn't going to happen.
So I've made my points that it's not Nature, so why is it Nurture.
Imagine a baby, it came into the world knowing nothing. What's gravity? how do I control my bowels? are my feet tasty? What is sexy...Men? Women? Dogs? I don't know I'M A BABY!
All infants have to learn the difference between male and female, associate themselves with one and learn what is correct action from others of their gender. All this is done before the child is 5. Believe it or not everyone picks up what is correct for them to be sexually attracted to long before they become sexually active. This is why so many claim "I've always felt gay". Well obviously you didn't think about it when you were 7!! This is where boys and girls need good role models for their gender. To teach them Men are masculine and Women are feminine.
It's not right to say you learn to be gay, but rather that you don't learn to be straight. On failing to pick up a sexual orientation an individual will most likely go for what ever they see others of their peer group doing later in sexual development. Commonly taking a homosexual or bisexual sexual preference.
As I mentioned earlier we associate with figures around us in our formative years and without realising it pick up their behaviours. This does not have to be direct and often very subtle influences will drastically change a persons development. An example would be the predisposition of those abused as children that will do so to their children later in life. Or children of alcoholics having higher tendencies to problems with alcohol. Even if you consciencely don't like the influence you may adopt that behaviour.
I could go on and I might continue this post later, but everyone hates a wall of text.
TLDR It's NURTURE NOT NATURE FOOL!!