Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?

[boosh-boosh]

The sexual orientation of humans falls into three categorys [sic].

Though I think your post was quite marvelous and evidently well researched, I'm a bit iffy about the above statement. Only three sexual preferences? What about asexuality? What about the recognition of there being more than two genders?

And in regards to OP: I believe it to be nature, but whether or not you will be open, comfortable, or even happy to acknowledge it is all down to nurture.

 

[General BrEeZy]

I haven't heard anything of sexual orientation being bound to our genetics...but nurturing has to be a huge factor for anyone to notice at an earlier age. being rased by a homosexual couple will probably increase their chances of "developing" any attractions to the same sex. and just because you think that someone of the same gender is attractive, does that mean youre homosexual? i (being male) know what makes guys look good, whether its their human appearance or their style, clothes or other things, but i dont want to have sex with them. hell to the no! in fact im straighter than mick jagger!

always an interesting topic to discuss. keep it clean people.

 

[holy_secret]

Nature, you can't be forced to be gay if the straight, the same way lots of gay people are forced to be straight. You either are, or your not (or bi-sexual but lets not get into all that)

We're always excluded from the conversation.
I'd say it's a combo of both. If you follow the bisexual theory (everyone's born bisexual), I would say tha the preference comes from what you're comfortable with. Like with experience and the innate taste which everyone has.

So let's say you're bisexual. You have sex with a woman the first time. You love this girl. And then you get on with your life. Somehow, the brain will create a signal connection in your head between intimacy and sex (two very nice things), which will make you think "cute girl is nice = feelings from before".
We had this talk in school, and our teacher mention this, but with bigger words (doctors will probably know. It's the same things as getting bitten by a dog = bad connection and fear for dogs).

Just what I think.

 

[Verp]

I think people are getting a little confused on the Nature Vrs. Nurture argument.

Nature: It is encoded into your genome. You have no choice, it just Happens.
Nurture: Through influncing outside factors it occurs.

now for a complex argument.

it is impossible to BE homosexual in normal conditions with 'nature'. you are not born homosexual and there are no gene's, genetics, hereditary traits, or influcing factors biologically to make a person homosexual. Your body is Designed from the ground up for the sole purpouse of reproduction, to find some one of the opposit sex and procreate.

the idea of 'Homosexuality' is purely a psychological one, or 'nurture' in this case. It is some ones choice to be homosexual or not. However, it is not as simple as 'i choose to be gay' or 'i choose to be straight'... Several psychological things and trama alter your prefrences, choices, and desires so that your choice and options shift.

Instead of asking ones self 'am i gay/straight?' they may ask themselves 'Should i be happy?' in which happiness is relations with some one of the same sex. Their feelings on the matter may be so very strong that, although the choice exists, they do not see it. Instead they identify with the choice that best suits them 'i am gay/straight'.


my stand point on the thing...
It is impossible to be Homosexual.
your body is designed to procreate and the body influences the mind.

It is impossible to be Hetrosexual.
Your mind finds sexual attraction in any features regardless of sex.

we are all varying degrees of Bi-sexual.

This doesn't hold up I'm afraid, since homosexuality is a common occurrence in nature. I can't leave a source, but I'm pretty certain I've read they have proven that homosexuality is in fact genetic.
Of course, being homosexual doesn't allow for you genes to survive evolution, but there is quite a possibility that the same gene that can cause you to become homosexual is beneficial in another way. So having the gene is beneficial, however only a few will actually become homosexual, when the gene is dominant. Not saying I know what that benefit is, just that there is a possibility.

acctually incorrect, homosexuality in nature is never by design of biology. It only happens due to influncing outside factors which force it to happen. some species of female Frogs, for instance, only adopt homosexual tendencies when a lack of males exist in the population. Penguins, probably the most famous Homosexual coupling in nature, Again only occur when there is lack of one sex over the other.

in almost every single case of homosexuality in nature that you can find you'll see that it Only occurs because of outside influence. i have yet to see one case where an animal of any type actively searches out a same sex relationship when these outside influences don't exist.

This is a very old view concerning homosexuality in the animal kingdom -- it has since been refuted by several observations of homosexuality occurring in hundreds of species across the globe without any particular outside influence.

acctually it is not.
I only know of 1 species which homosexuality occurs due to lack of outside influence.

Sheep.

Oh, yeah, because if you don't know about something, it certainly doesn't exist. There are certainly no pair-bonding species like albatrosses or swans mating with the opposite sex and returning to their same-sex partner to have some more sex and raise their chicks. There are certainly no animals such as male orangutans or fruit bats giving each other fellatio in the wild. There are certainly no wild gay dolphins having wild gay orgies.

Also, I do believe that you edited this into your post:

also... Homosexuality being genetic?
Genetics identify Protein chains and Nothing else...
it is impossible for a purely psychological thing like Sexuality to be influenced by Genetics.

You need to learn yourself some behavioural biology and human sexuality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOY3QH_jOtE&feature=BFa&list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D&index=15

This is a good place to start.

 

[Polarity27]

I think it's complicated. Definitely nature for the extremes on the Kinsey scale, the absolutely straight would not ever touch someone of the same sex no way no how people and the absolutely "gold star" gay would not ever touch someone on the opposite sex no way no how people.

It's those of us in the middle for whom it's a bit more complicated. I identified as straight for most of my life until I got into a supportive environment that let me explore my sexual attractions without fear and let me come out to myself and others as bisexual. I'd always had feelings about women, I'd just hidden them under either the "everybody's occasionally curious" or "I don't think she's like *hot* hot, I just wish I looked like that" veneer. I didn't have a crush on my boss, I just "admired" her a lot-- no matter that her paying attention to me made my heart race just like a crush on a male would, and no matter that I sought gossip on her very ambiguous social life in the hopes that I'd find out she was a lesbian. I think nature made me bisexual, nurture gave me the ability to express it.

That, and for a lot of women, sexual attraction is fluid. I think I was pretty far to the straight end of the scale as a teenager, now I'm almost exclusively interested in other women and if I had the opportunity to have another relationship, I would only seek a woman.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Not saying outside influence doesn't affect it, but the fact that different species has different approaches to homosexuality still means that there is a genetic disposition towards homosexuality. Homosexuality might be triggered by circumstances, but that doesn't mean it's not genetics

acctually it says quiet the opposit.
because homosexuality does not naturally occur in nature in normal circimstances, it means there is no genetic disposition towards it. All doccumented cases of homosexuality in animals that i have seen are purely because of outside influncing factors.

Case in point...
why don't you see homosexual female penguins?
if it was a genetic disposition, then you should see homosexual female penguins too...
but you don't.

If it was purely environmental, all different cases of homosexuality would be unique. If penguins during certain conditions become homosexual, those conditions are determined by genes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
This article states that there are some cases of animals being born homosexuals, sheeps are the most notable examples.
Also elephants often form homosexual relationships, even though they do not form heterosexual relationships

i think you greatly misunderstand exactly how genetics work.

Homosexuality in rams have been linked to a lack of agressiveness. Genetic mutations have occured in certain rams which have caused a segement of their brain to convert Testosterone into Estradiol. These rams are not homosexual in that they try to mate with males, but rather that the Rams are passive and do not refuse being mounted.

They are not homosexual, they are passive and do not deny advances. Leading ideas provided by Merck Manual of Veterinary Medicine and other farming and veternary studies link this behavior to poor husbandry and breeding more then anything else.

Elephants are acctually one of the few animals in the animal kingdom which have psychological bonds. homosexuality seen with in elephants is much like homosexuality in humans as prefrence plays a much larger part in it then predisposition. However, it should be noted that in almost all of the examples of homosexuality seen in elephants is acctually examples of Bi-sexuality as the elephants, when allowed, will mount and mate with females.



suffice it to say... you're wrong.
you can not have a genetic dispoition to a psychological stand point. (outside of certain extremes)

 

[invitationofchaos]

It could be both. I mean, the environment you live in can sometimes have a more drastic effect on a person than natural cause-and-effect. It does feel a bit difficult to pin it as one or the other, something as a persons' sexuality is not always a binary choice......

 

[elvor0]

Nature, because animals can be gay too.

Although I imagine I skipped over some morons saying it's all unnatural and that we should burn them alive while feeding them their own hearts for the sexual deviancy.

 

[Slick Samurai]

Nurture, estrogen and testosterone levels govern some instincts, but homosexuality is a personality quirk, right or wrong. You're more likely to be homosexual in a homosexual family because of the upbringing, not because of the genes. You don't get your personality from your genes, you get it from your brain processing your surroundings and calculating what it thinks is the best reaction to your environment.

 

[Gustavo S. Buschle]

Well, my science teacher once told us a story about a boy who became gay out of spite for his father. In my opinion he is still heterosexual, the fact that he kisses and/or has sex with other man doesn't make him a homosexual, so I would say you are born with it.

 

[Esotera]

Why does it have to be just one? A gene can predispose an individual to something like homosexuality, making it more likely that they will be gay, but doesn't make it absolute.

 

[DanielDeFig]

I actually saw a documentary relatively recently, with John Barrowman (Jack Harkness of the new Doctor Who series), where he explored the science of homosexuality.

While I didn't agree with all of it (I've had it sort of beaten into me to question and criticise everything I see/read/hear), I did find it enlightening to see actual factual evidence that homosexuality is a purely physical thing, that starts at conception.

One of the most interesting ideas was that Homosexuality was tied to testosterone levels during a child's development in the womb (less testosterone, more likelihood a a male child being homosexual), and that it was possible for a woman to have less testosterone "available" as she gave birth to successive sons. Basically: They found a trend where there was a higher likelihood of male homosexuality for men with more older brothers (doesn't help to explain homosexuality as a whole for both men and women, but it's an intriguing and quite plausible theory nonetheless.

 

[Pyro Paul]

I think people are getting a little confused on the Nature Vrs. Nurture argument.

Nature: It is encoded into your genome. You have no choice, it just Happens.
Nurture: Through influncing outside factors it occurs.

now for a complex argument.

it is impossible to BE homosexual in normal conditions with 'nature'. you are not born homosexual and there are no gene's, genetics, hereditary traits, or influcing factors biologically to make a person homosexual. Your body is Designed from the ground up for the sole purpouse of reproduction, to find some one of the opposit sex and procreate.

the idea of 'Homosexuality' is purely a psychological one, or 'nurture' in this case. It is some ones choice to be homosexual or not. However, it is not as simple as 'i choose to be gay' or 'i choose to be straight'... Several psychological things and trama alter your prefrences, choices, and desires so that your choice and options shift.

Instead of asking ones self 'am i gay/straight?' they may ask themselves 'Should i be happy?' in which happiness is relations with some one of the same sex. Their feelings on the matter may be so very strong that, although the choice exists, they do not see it. Instead they identify with the choice that best suits them 'i am gay/straight'.


my stand point on the thing...
It is impossible to be Homosexual.
your body is designed to procreate and the body influences the mind.

It is impossible to be Hetrosexual.
Your mind finds sexual attraction in any features regardless of sex.

we are all varying degrees of Bi-sexual.

This doesn't hold up I'm afraid, since homosexuality is a common occurrence in nature. I can't leave a source, but I'm pretty certain I've read they have proven that homosexuality is in fact genetic.
Of course, being homosexual doesn't allow for you genes to survive evolution, but there is quite a possibility that the same gene that can cause you to become homosexual is beneficial in another way. So having the gene is beneficial, however only a few will actually become homosexual, when the gene is dominant. Not saying I know what that benefit is, just that there is a possibility.

acctually incorrect, homosexuality in nature is never by design of biology. It only happens due to influncing outside factors which force it to happen. some species of female Frogs, for instance, only adopt homosexual tendencies when a lack of males exist in the population. Penguins, probably the most famous Homosexual coupling in nature, Again only occur when there is lack of one sex over the other.

in almost every single case of homosexuality in nature that you can find you'll see that it Only occurs because of outside influence. i have yet to see one case where an animal of any type actively searches out a same sex relationship when these outside influences don't exist.

This is a very old view concerning homosexuality in the animal kingdom -- it has since been refuted by several observations of homosexuality occurring in hundreds of species across the globe without any particular outside influence.

acctually it is not.
I only know of 1 species which homosexuality occurs due to lack of outside influence.

Sheep.

Oh, yeah, because if you don't know about something, it certainly doesn't exist. There are certainly no pair-bonding species like albatrosses or swans mating with the opposite sex and returning to their same-sex partner to have some more sex and raise their chicks. There are certainly no animals such as male orangutans or fruit bats giving each other fellatio in the wild. There are certainly no wild gay dolphins having wild gay orgies.

Also, I do believe that you edited this into your post:

also... Homosexuality being genetic?
Genetics identify Protein chains and Nothing else...
it is impossible for a purely psychological thing like Sexuality to be influenced by Genetics.

You need to learn yourself some behavioural biology and human sexuality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOY3QH_jOtE&feature=BFa&list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D&index=15

This is a good place to start.

Well considering that a cheif majority of the General Science Community doesn't see Same Sex relationships occuring outside of conditional psychological responces except with in sheep, which has raised its own discussion and debate (primarly about husbandry and selective breeding), i will echo the sentiments of science... There is no genetic predisposition to homosexuality found anywhere in the animal kingdom.

the bisexuality of dolphins, birds, primates, and even elephants have all seen a sort of psychological reason involved, although debate has also spawned from this as it involves the discussion of 'emotions' in non-human species.

i will ask...
what does that video try to even prove?

his classes speaks upon the ties between biology and psychology.
depression, neuropathology, joy, etc.

now while you can argue a that a certain duality exists, and i understand that there are extreme conditionals which can prove this wrong... but from a casual and normal stand point i will stand by the statement that genetics don't truely influence psycholgical behavior.

 

[Varya]

Not saying outside influence doesn't affect it, but the fact that different species has different approaches to homosexuality still means that there is a genetic disposition towards homosexuality. Homosexuality might be triggered by circumstances, but that doesn't mean it's not genetics

acctually it says quiet the opposit.
because homosexuality does not naturally occur in nature in normal circimstances, it means there is no genetic disposition towards it. All doccumented cases of homosexuality in animals that i have seen are purely because of outside influncing factors.

Case in point...
why don't you see homosexual female penguins?
if it was a genetic disposition, then you should see homosexual female penguins too...
but you don't.

If it was purely environmental, all different cases of homosexuality would be unique. If penguins during certain conditions become homosexual, those conditions are determined by genes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
This article states that there are some cases of animals being born homosexuals, sheeps are the most notable examples.
Also elephants often form homosexual relationships, even though they do not form heterosexual relationships

i think you greatly misunderstand exactly how genetics work.

Homosexuality in rams have been linked to a lack of agressiveness. Genetic mutations have occured in certain rams which have caused a segement of their brain to convert Testosterone into Estradiol. These rams are not homosexual in that they try to mate with males, but rather that the Rams are passive and do not refuse being mounted.

They are not homosexual, they are passive and do not deny advances. Leading ideas provided by Merck Manual of Veterinary Medicine and other farming and veternary studies link this behavior to poor husbandry and breeding more then anything else.

Elephants are acctually one of the few animals in the animal kingdom which have psychological bonds. homosexuality seen with in elephants is much like homosexuality in humans as prefrence plays a much larger part in it then predisposition. However, it should be noted that in almost all of the examples of homosexuality seen in elephants is acctually examples of Bi-sexuality as the elephants, when allowed, will mount and mate with females.



suffice it to say... you're wrong.
you can not have a genetic dispoition to a psychological stand point. (outside of certain extremes)

As far as I can understand it, the sheep preferred to mate with other males, so while their acceptance is a domestication issue, the sexual orientation is not. However, you speak as if you are more read up on this than me, and as the trusting person I am, I choose to believe you know more in this than me. (I also must admit that any genetics displayed in domesticated animals might be a bad example, since we control breeding so hard)
But I still thing you arrive at the wrong conclusions.
Also, your last statement is wrong. As someone with ADD, coming from a family with a history of ADD, ADHD, Aspegers and similar handicaps, I know this for a fact. This is also kid of my point. ADHD has some great evolutionary benefits, but they can also become a great hindrance, especially if they are extreme cases. How is it impossible for this to apply to homosexuality as well? Having, let's call it "the Gay Gene" might be a great thing. Let's just make shit up and say it makes you more likely to engage in male bonding. This is essential for survival, as the pack is more likely to defend you, hunt with you and support you. However, sometimes, the gene is dominant and that makes one gay. No matter, the gene is still beneficial, as most people with it won't be gay, just better at keeping the group whole

You state your views as fact, and that kind of nags at me. Yes, you MIGHT be right, but there is no conclusive evidence for this. Saying that homosexuality definitively is a "nurture" thing is wrong, it's not definitive at all. I do not know if you are a geneticist or not, but even if you are, the facts aren't in yet, so please at least acknowledge that you are stating your views.

 

[SeanSeanston]

The first one is kind of obvious, height is purely based on genetics, no argument

Uh... I think scientists would disagree with that.

Malnutrition, disease etc. effect height, as well as other factors that may or may not.

 

[DanielDeFig]

Nurture, estrogen and testosterone levels govern some instincts, but homosexuality is a personality quirk, right or wrong. You're more likely to be homosexual in a homosexual family because of the upbringing, not because of the genes. You don't get your personality from your genes, you get it from your brain processing your surroundings and calculating what it thinks is the best reaction to your environment.

Not really. Homosexuality is a biological factor (not a genetic one, as some ppl have siad on this thread), and being brought up in a homosexual/heterosexual home has no impact on your won sexuality.

Please watch a video of a straight man, who was raised by two homosexual women,and grew up to be a straight guy

 

[Arafiro]

Anyone that can be influenced by environmental factors to "change" orientation is actually a bisexual, just one that originally leant very far to one side and identified as either heterosexual or homosexual.