Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?

[HobbyJim]

One's sexual orientation is always encoded in the genes. External factors just affect how much it is shown in the actions of the individual.

lovely explanation sir. or madam. your screen name isn't a clear giveaway. lol

 

[Filiecs]

I'd say that love is the biggest factor, although other factors can have an effect.

 

[Biosophilogical]

Nature mainly, but nurture plays a part- generally in how the person may 'accept' their sexuality.

Agreed. I think that sexuality is probably completely genetics, but nurture can play a role in how, or if, the person represses or expresses their feelings. Which does pose a ... I don't want to say problem, so I'll go with thingy-ma-what's-it. If someone is bisexual (reasonably so, not just a 2/6 on the Kinsey Scale), then is it possible that they would repress (unconsciously) their less preferred attraction, essentially convincing themselves that they are either straight or gay because that is their 'preferred preference'?

 

[fulano]

A mixture of both, most likely. But we'll have to wait for scientists in the field to fully explain what's up with the brain to be entirely sure of what's the full extent of the nature part.

 

[Dragonclaw]

Nature mainly, but nurture plays a part- generally in how the person may 'accept' their sexuality.

Agreed. I think that sexuality is probably completely genetics, but nurture can play a role in how, or if, the person represses or expresses their feelings. Which does pose a ... I don't want to say problem, so I'll go with thingy-ma-what's-it. If someone is bisexual (reasonably so, not just a 2/6 on the Kinsey Scale), then is it possible that they would repress (unconsciously) their less preferred attraction, essentially convincing themselves that they are either straight or gay because that is their 'preferred preference'?

Yeah, I see it as no different than a parent who tries to twist things on a child they "worry" is gay, making it harder for a child to be honest about who they are becoming one way or the other. Parents can really screw things up for their kids brains. My ex and I are still freinds and it's hard to watch her want a good relationship so badly, but those demons just make her sabbotage herself every time.

 

[smegmar]

Ok so everyone that's on the NATURE side must also agree that all human sexual attractions are genetic and absolutely no will, choice or environmental factors played a part in any of the following.....

Piquerism ---> Sexual gratification through penetration of another person, most commonly by stabbing or cutting the body with sharp objects.

Formicophilia ---> Being crawled on by insects

Apotemnophilia ---> Having an amputation

Telephone scatologia ---> Obscene phone calls, particularly to strangers; also known as telephonicophilia

Salirophilia ---> Soiling or dirtying others


and the list goes on and on......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paraphilias


Seriously all of these are caused by Genes?? the frock!! get all the genes out of me I don't want them then.

 

[Rex Fallout]

I know I know another sexuality thread, I dont know why But I find this "nature vs nurture" argument very interesting, not just in regard to gayness

So I guess the obvious question is: can your secual orientation be influenced by outside..um things, or are you just born that way?

personally I would lean towards the "nature" side of things, not saying that your upbringing cant have an effect but I mean you get people who come from traditional christain nuclear families who are gay, so how do you explain that?

First off I'm going to lean toward choice and nurture, (I know I'll be fire bombed) but I've always believed that we have a choice in just about everything we do, including sexuality. Maybe I just like to have that power? Anyways, I can easily explain the 'traditional christian nuclear families who are gay' with one simple word. Resentment. People don't like to be told what to do, they don't like to have their choices chosen for them and their lives decided for them. Its part of being an individual. You force Christianity on anyone and a lot of times they will reject it simply because you forced it on them. You can't force your will on anyone else, that's why Marxism fails.

Choice is the key word here. we choose everything whether we want to admit it or not we do. We choose who we are, whether it be that we conform to what our parents expect of us, or embrace the difference is our choice.

 

[Silvianoshei]

Why can't it be both? There isn't any known genetic basis for homosexuality, so I'd lean more towards nurture. The context of your bildungsroman seems to have a much statistically meaningful impact. Family structure, if you have a gay family member, if you come from a super religous family...these things increase or decrease your chances of being gay in a way that genetics has never been found to do.

If science proves me wrong, then I'll change my opinion. #NoPride

 

[intheweeds]

some more points I'd like to interject. From my point of view I've never seen the curvature of the earth, and nor has anyone I know. Does that mean that the world is flat...? sometimes perception can be misleading and we need more understanding of something we cannot experience in day to day life.


I want to quote Sleek giant but the quote button is acting up for me...

"Also if you hang around tall people, you will become tall yourself.

OT: Its nature, you don't make gay, its part of a persons mind when they are born."

Some people have tall genetics, they got it from their parents or immediate family which is clearly visible. Other then that a good diet and correct posture and other NURTURE factors have a huge role.

But height is a physical feature, which is completely different for an attraction with is purely mental. If a person can be attracted, Sexually or otherwise, to specific targets by genes where does it stop.

Do I like pasta because of my genes? What about the simpsons, Do I find that sort of humor funny because of genes?? and sexually do you say all pedophiles, zoophiles and acrotomophilies are caused by genetics??

it's just ridiculous.

Your physical height is no different from your 'mental'thought processes. Every thought you ever have ever is nothing more than brain chemistry. Chemistry is the science of matter. Matter is physical. Everything in your physical body is decided by your genes in one way or another. So yes, to answer your question on a very basic level, you like pasta because of your genes.

 

[Dexiro]

Eep delete this ~

 

[FiveSpeedf150]

Both for sure, the metric I use is Cher's Son/Daughter/Thing. Genetics may have had something to do with it, but you can't deny that mommy and his/her/it's childhood had some kind of effect.

 

[ParkourMcGhee]

2-5% nature, rest nurture.

Have you seen in sweden how they're using a word between "he" and "she" for every child?

Yeah, don't let's discriminate, and sexually confuse everyone in the process >.>

 

[Dexiro]

...

Aha I think I've deciphered your viewpoint. Just to make sure, sexuality is governed by who an individual is attracted to. I've said it already but a gay guy can have sex with a female and he'll still be gay, and a straight guy can have sex with guys and still be straight. You can choose who you engage with but you can't choose who you're attracted too.

I just have to double check that you know that. Now you haven't told me your sexuality yet but I do know some bisexuals have trouble understanding that concept, by no fault of their own.

Now what you seem to be arguing is that everyone is bisexual and chooses who they sleep with based on social conditioning. The problem I have with this is that it doesn't seem consistent with what I know. Now being a homosexual I know quite a bit about them ~ you're explanation for homosexuality was something along the lines of homosexuals having some negative disposition towards sexual acts with females, and likewise for the reverse. And while I seem like I'm just going in circles here I'm still struggling to see how this fits in with the whole denial thing.

Their are gays out there that go to "conversion camps" to turn straight and these have never seen success no matter what the determination. This leads me to believe that a persons sexuality is cemented pretty firmly into their psychology and such, unless I'm misunderstanding you make it seem like any gay person could just wake up one day and be attracted to vaginas.

Sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself at all but I'm just having trouble pulling bits together.

 

[funguy2121]

I know I know another sexuality thread, I dont know why But I find this "nature vs nurture" argument very interesting, not just in regard to gayness

So I guess the obvious question is: can your secual orientation be influenced by outside..um things, or are you just born that way?

personally I would lean towards the "nature" side of things, not saying that your upbringing cant have an effect but I mean you get people who come from traditional christain nuclear families who are gay, so how do you explain that?

They believe they have found the "gay gene," though I do believe that certain experiences can persuade a person to open up to parts of their sexual personality that are already there. Either way, I don't care. It's immaterial from both a civil rights standpoint and a parenting one. There is nothing you can do to affect the outcome of your child's sexual orientation (actual).

 

[BlueMage]

Your upbringing means precisely zip. Sexuality (ie, who you want to fuck) is determined pretty much pre-birth. Characterisation and mannerisms (ie, telling them you want to fuck) is what's influenced by upbringing.

Also, can those of you saying "well, we can't tell for sure." please stop. Do some research, practice your google-fu and educate yourself. There's no shame in saying "I don't know" but there's a shit-tonne in saying "and I don't want to either"

 

[CODE-D]

I think the whole "born this way" thing is bull.

 

[cobra_ky]

Both for sure, the metric I use is Cher's Son/Daughter/Thing. Genetics may have had something to do with it, but you can't deny that mommy and his/her/it's childhood had some kind of effect.

Please explain the supposedly undeniable effect being raised by Cher had on Chaz Bono's gender identity.

 

[JMeganSnow]

So I guess the obvious question is: can your secual orientation be influenced by outside..um things, or are you just born that way?

Yes.

This is a classic example of the wrong sort of question to be asking, because it makes an invalid assumption: that ANYTHING humans do is the direct, traceable result of either nature or nurture.

The truth is WAY more complex than this. If you have two identical twins and one develops schizophrenia, it's 50/50 whether the other twin will also develop schizophrenia. But isn't schizophrenia a physical disorder? They have the same nature and as close to the same nurture as is possible. So what gives?

Better questions to ask would be along the lines of:

Do people *consciously* choose to be gay? Or straight? From what I understand, the answer to this is an unmodified negative. The only part of your mind you have direct immediate control over is your conscious mind, and it is *incredibly* limited in scope and application. You can use your conscious mind to (eventually) exert control over the other parts of your mind in various ways, and even make changes over time (such as shedding habits or taking up new ones). In theory it might be possible for a very strong-willed person who was superb at introspection to gradually shift their desires one way or the other, but that's an incredible amount of work to go through to fix a *personality quirk* that, as far as I can tell, has no significance whatsoever.

Is it possible to "make" someone gay? Or straight? On purpose or by accident? Also an unqualified negative. If it was possible to make over someone else's personality in this way, I think people would be DOING it, and for far more purposes than getting someone to like penises instead of vaginas. Thus far all of my housemate's efforts to make me remember to take out the trash have been in vain, and trust me, that pisses him off far more than anyone's particular anatomy-rubbing practices.

Frankly, the only thing about the issue I find concerns me the least bit is why some people place such huge moral significance on other people's anatomy-rubbing practices. HONESTLY. It's like making a huge moral issue out of whether or not people trim their fingernails.

 

[smegmar]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blue mage said:
Your upbringing means precisely zip. Sexuality (ie, who you want to fuck) is determined pretty much pre-birth. Characterisation and mannerisms (ie, telling them you want to fuck) is what's influenced by upbringing.

Also, can those of you saying "well, we can't tell for sure." please stop. Do some research, practice your google-fu and educate yourself. There's no shame in saying "I don't know" but there's a shit-tonne in saying "and I don't want to either"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And I still have a dodgey quote button


you couldn't be more wrong. How can genetics select a target for sexual attraction? genes don't know what a man looks like. How can they program you to like something they don't know. Also read my previous posts. Are you are saying that I have no free thoughts of my own and everything I will think is programmed from birth? If you believe sexual attraction is solely controlled by genetics then you agree that pedophiles, rapist, bestialists and scatists are just acting by genetics and have no power over it. You're one sick puppy.

As for research and google-fu
http://www.mygenes.co.nz/download.htm
http://www2.nau.edu/~bio372-c/class/behavior/apbg.htm

you'll find that real science supports the Nurture side of the argument.