Horizon Zero Dawn and accusations of SJW pandering: What is true, and what isn't.

[Charli]

It's not. End thread. Tune out all the whining manbabies the same way you tune out all the trigger happy ninnies who want to conflate everything into a controversial conspiracy to uphold white supremacy. (or whatever the fuck)

And enjoy your goddamn Electric Dinosaur slaying.

 

[Worgen]

Holy shit, people are still bitching about "sjw"s?

To be fair, there are undoubtedly individuals in the world that I think do fit the title.

That said, the term "SJW" has been thrown around so much that not only has it lost its meaning, but "WJS's" (...okay, what IS the opposite of an SJW?) are seeing boogeymen all over the place.

I don't think I've ever seen an sjw but I've certainly seen people bitching about them and people worried about sounding like one. I think sjw is more of an idea rather than any actual person and that idea is a liberal. People ***** about sjw the same way rush limbaugh bitched about liberals long ago when my dad used to listen to his fat ass.

 

[PurplePonyArcade]

I'll check this out when someone tl:dr's a video made by an at least somewhat sane person from neither side.

 

[James Theesfeld]

I haven't played the game. Or know much about the game. I'm an xbone luddite. But I've skimmed the thread and I think it makes a statement about the games industry that we've all kinda missed. "So and so is a pandering black character." "I think Villain Guy is white because they weren't confidant they could make a non-racist minority BBEG." "Muslim Science Woman could have been super weird and scary." "SJWs got SJ all over my vidya game."

We're not really talking about the characters. "So and so is a shite character." "I think Villain Guy is awesome." "Muslim Science Woman sure had some believable science." When the big standout quality of the character ensemble that differentiates it from other games is the amount of vagina they have or melanin-style skin textures in their texture pack... what does that say about other games?

Maybe games as an narrative format really do suck at representation then if we're freaking out over the number of plot-relevant vagina owners it has. I mean if plot-relevant female characters were "normalized" to borrow from the PC police, nobody would give a fuck. We'd be talking about how boring/interesting PC Character is.

 

[Vigormortis]

Here's a thought: So what if it is?

We have an industry filled to the brim with games that pander to the male-power-fantasy. What the fuck does it matter if we have one triple-A game that does the opposite?

And the thing is, the game doesn't even do that! This 'controversy' is nothing more than internet keyboard warriors yelling at the shadows in their echo chambers and thinking it's boogeymen, all because a triple-A game dared to have a female protagonist living a world with female-lead societies.

Hahaha.

Y'know what's truly hilarious about this?

The people complaining about SJW pandering use the exact same arguments and language as the most annoying brand of SJW, just with the skin colours and genders and whatnot swapped around.

If I respected these people enough to credit them with a scrap of intelligence or self-awareness I'd think they were doing it on purpose. Instead they're just two sides of the same profoundly pathetic coin.

Also this. ^

I haven't played the game. Or know much about the game. I'm an xbone luddite. But I've skimmed the thread and I think it makes a statement about the games industry that we've all kinda missed. "So and so is a pandering black character." "I think Villain Guy is white because they weren't confidant they could make a non-racist minority BBEG." "Muslim Science Woman could have been super weird and scary." "SJWs got SJ all over my vidya game."

We're not really talking about the characters. "So and so is a shite character." "I think Villain Guy is awesome." "Muslim Science Woman sure had some believable science." When the big standout quality of the character ensemble that differentiates it from other games is the amount of vagina they have or melanin-style skin textures in their texture pack... what does that say about other games?

Maybe games as an narrative format really do suck at representation then if we're freaking out over the number of plot-relevant vagina owners it has. I mean if plot-relevant female characters were "normalized" to borrow from the PC police, nobody would give a fuck. We'd be talking about how boring/interesting PC Character is.

And this. ^

snip

For someone who started his post with "whatever" you sure seemed to take it personally.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Tomb Raider did exactly the same thing, worse even (all white guys died, not a single non-white-guy died, unless you count Samurai ghosts) and no one gave a toss about that.

Not to mention...

Spoiler

Two of the four dudes that die are Whitman (Lara's hero, secretly a coward and a traitor) and Weiss (white in German). A fifth character that was meant to die was also white but removed from the game for some reason.

 

[McMarbles]

Why is it always "pandering" when the protag is anything but a straight white male?

And why is it never "pandering" in the case of the 99% of AAA games with straight white male protags calculated to appeal to the majority straight white male audience?

And why are the guys who scream "How DARE you interfere with the developers' sacred vision!" whenever anime boobies (which are never a case of pandering, no no nooooooo) get edited always mysteriously silent when those sacred visionary developers are criticized for "pandering" by daring to use a non-SWM protag?

 

[shrekfan246]

And why are the guys who scream "How DARE you interfere with the developers' sacred vision!" whenever anime boobies (which are never a case of pandering, no no nooooooo) get edited always mysteriously silent when those sacred visionary developers are criticized for "pandering" by daring to use a non-SWM protag?

Oh, they're not mysteriously silent.

They're generally the same ones screaming about how non-SWM protagonists are "pandering".

You may have noticed, there's a curious overlap between people who have anime-character avatars on various websites and people who really, really hate allowing anyone to look at the socio-political themes of video games in any sort of depth.

 

[Eliam_Dar]

What I find interesting of the game Nora society, is that as a matriarchy, they are as flawed as any government we have had. I also found very telling that the main form of punishment that they have is casting someone out, hence the outcasts, which is very fitting with the matriarchy.
I am still 15-20 hours deep into the game, while doing side quests, so let's see how it goes.

 

[Phasmal]

I find it really cringey that when a game comes out that isn't about straight white dudes there needs to be a conversation about whether it's "too SJW" or not.
Like....

Do these people go outside? Is that a thing that happens?

In summary, who the hell cares if it's pandering or not. All games are pandering- just to different people a lot of the time. But that's apparently fine.

 

[the December King]

Here's a thought: So what if it is?

We have an industry filled to the brim with games that pander to the male-power-fantasy. What the fuck does it matter if we have one triple-A game that does the opposite?

And the thing is, the game doesn't even do that! This 'controversy' is nothing more than internet keyboard warriors yelling at the shadows in their echo chambers and thinking it's boogeymen, all because a triple-A game dared to have a female protagonist living a world with female-lead societies.

Hahaha.

Y'know what's truly hilarious about this?

The people complaining about SJW pandering use the exact same arguments and language as the most annoying brand of SJW, just with the skin colours and genders and whatnot swapped around.

If I respected these people enough to credit them with a scrap of intelligence or self-awareness I'd think they were doing it on purpose. Instead they're just two sides of the same profoundly pathetic coin.

Also this. ^

I haven't played the game. Or know much about the game. I'm an xbone luddite. But I've skimmed the thread and I think it makes a statement about the games industry that we've all kinda missed. "So and so is a pandering black character." "I think Villain Guy is white because they weren't confidant they could make a non-racist minority BBEG." "Muslim Science Woman could have been super weird and scary." "SJWs got SJ all over my vidya game."

We're not really talking about the characters. "So and so is a shite character." "I think Villain Guy is awesome." "Muslim Science Woman sure had some believable science." When the big standout quality of the character ensemble that differentiates it from other games is the amount of vagina they have or melanin-style skin textures in their texture pack... what does that say about other games?

Maybe games as an narrative format really do suck at representation then if we're freaking out over the number of plot-relevant vagina owners it has. I mean if plot-relevant female characters were "normalized" to borrow from the PC police, nobody would give a fuck. We'd be talking about how boring/interesting PC Character is.

And this. ^

snip

For someone who started his post with "whatever" you sure seemed to take it personally.

Sure. I mean, it's not really worth getting upset over. If you don't like what is being said to you, or that the protagonist is a female, or if you don't want to play a game with that kind of story, then... don't buy it. I guess. Pleeenty of other games out there.

Or, there's that character skinswap/modelswap they did for that LOTR game a while back. Why not make that a thing... or am I remembering that wrong, was that done by the creators? I thought it was an indie effort, or something.

As for me, the visuals look stunning, and I'm glad that there's another great looking game featuring a female protagonist for people who were wanting that, but I'm not interested in the game enough to buy a PS4, and I'm not really interested in female protagonists.

 

[Wintermute_v1legacy]

I don't see the issue here. I try to avoid the whole feminists/sjw/pc/neckbeards/mra/whatever debate, but let's be honest, most games feature a dude doing cool shit. Having a game that features a female protagonist/female society or whatever isn't going hurt anyone.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Wait wait, so because ladies are in charge of the giant robot dinosaur hunting tribes its somehow an SJW message? 'cause I'm as anti-SJW as the next reasoning adult, but I didn't make any connection.
Now if the main chick was transgender, lesbian, gender fluid, healthy at any weight and was trying to stop the robodino-tyrant The Mansplainor with a bow called the 'Antia is Goddess' then maybe.

But chicks can be nomadic tribe elders just as much as men.

 

[CombatWombat999]

There's some agenda-pushing, but usually it didn't amount to much more than an eyeroll.

What disappointed me was how bland and boring Aloy was, and I think it was due to a misguided effort to make her a "strong female character". I wish she had a character flaw or something to show character growth, like a bad habit of trying to prove herself to others, or a disconnect between her role as a Seeker and how the village treated her previously. Either of these would be something a normal person would experience in her situation. Instead, Aloy was always good-hearted, responsible, and competent. It's not something that ruined the game, but it feels like a key missed opportunity.

 

[RaikuFA]

Have these people not heard of Amazon women? The Gerudo Race?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Oh God, the Gerurdo: the perfectly functioning tribe of all women where a dude is only born every century or so, and that dude is invariably a massive dick.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Oh God, the Gerurdo: the perfectly functioning tribe of all women where a dude is only born every century or so, and that dude is invariably a massive dick.

This begs a question. How do the Gerudo reproduce? Do they kidnap and rape men, then murder them? It's the only explanation. Damn, I didn't realize Zelda is so dark.

Either that or some of them having dicks but still being women. Which means, of course, that Nintendo won't go with either idea.

 

[Ryallen]

Oh God, the Gerurdo: the perfectly functioning tribe of all women where a dude is only born every century or so, and that dude is invariably a massive dick.

This begs a question. How do the Gerudo reproduce? Do they kidnap and rape men, then murder them? It's the only explanation. Damn, I didn't realize Zelda is so dark.

They are allowed to have boyfriends and lovers outside the Gerudo tribe.

Sauce: http://zelda.gamepedia.com/Gerudo