Hotline Miami 2: What are your thoughts?

[EmperorZinyak]

I'm incredibly disappointed, to say the least. Although the music, graphics, and story are great, the level design is fucking awful. The room-clearing goodness of HLM 1 has been replaced with gigantic open spaces where you get sniped from across the map through 3 different glass panes. Some levels are packed to the brim with so many enemies that you have to peek around corners very carefully and pick off as many people as you can with a silenced pistol. The cargo ship level was a gigantic clusterfuck of dozens of enemies in one single space. Melee strategies force you to lure enemies to you rather than run in and cave skulls like you could do in HLM 1. Plus, the levels are so big now that it's better to play cautiously rather than on instinct, like you could in HLM 1. Guns are absolutely mandatory for most of the levels, when they almost never were in HLM 1. Until the level editor comes out, HLM 2 is shaping up to be a big disappointment for me. What are your guys' thoughts?

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

I completely agree, the level design is so horribly unfair. In HLM 1 I never used the Shift-vision to look what was ahead, there was no need because the sightlines weren't that long. Now I've been killed by gunmen that I can't see so much that I have to use it extensively. Tons of guys crammed in small spaces, so freaking many enemies with guns, stupid-long sightlines that cater to the gunmen with pixel-perfect accuracy, glass walls everywhere that only serve as a way to get blindsided by the gunmen, and all of that for each and every level. It's more challenging, which is what lovers of HLM 1 may have wanted, but it's not a fun challenge. It's less about clearing the rooms fast and getting spectacular combos, but more about meticulously picking off each enemy because you've been at this for ten minutes and hate getting sniped by Mr. Shotgun through two glass walls offscreen after killing his fifteen friends. It's frustrating to lose now. I didn't mind losing in the first game, since normally it was my fault and clearing a floor took roughly twenty seconds if done right. Now restarting means I lose about a minute of planning and getting lucky, because once again Mr. Shotgun killed me in one shot when I had no idea where he was. That is so not what HLM was about.

It absolutely boggles my mind why Dennaton thought that to change the level idea they had in HLM 1. The gameplay really isn't that radically different from the first.

Otherwise I have no regrets. Love the character and mask and diversity compared to the first game, you actually have to change how you play with a character. In the first game, whichever mask you choose came down to gaining lethality (lethal throws) in turn for losing lethality (not having lethal doors, lethal fists, or starting with a gun). Now you have to really play different depending on the character. I play Corey different from how I play Alex & Ash, and I play them different from how I play Tony. It's really all I could ask for.

Oh, and the story's pretty dang scrambled as far as chronology and sticking with the same characters. I like every character you play as, like each of their playstyles, but I always want to return to The Fans. I think the first had a way better execution (heh) with the story than HLM 2 ever could hope for.

Yeah I'd suggest getting it. It's a must-buy if you liked HLM 1. I'd just suggest getting the first one more than this.

 

[Erttheking]

To be honest I always found that playing cautiously and luring enemies in was how I had to play the game since the first game, so it's not too much of a problem for me.

 

[AT God]

I found it frustrating but still fun. I really dislike the ending, through the game I was intrigued because I was wondering how it was all going to tie together and it didn't. That said, I still kinda like it because it didn't give me what I wanted, it defied what I hoped and expected which is kinda the game's whole thing, its unsettling throughout and there was no closure.

I agree that a lot of the levels were completely unfair, The Soldier's last 2 levels were just insanely large and the final level for the Fans was also really frustrating. Plus, in Hotline 1, you could beat every floor in a single combo, and while it might technically be possible in HM2, I doubt it because levels are just so spread out. I am really struggling with A+ rankings in HM2 when I can get all A+'s in HM1 without even actively going for them.

I think, though, the sort of clearing a room style gameplay will be significantly better when the level editor comes out. None of the levels really took advantage of some of the new abilities, specifically I think the dual MP5's ability will be really fun to design maps around. I just hope that they give options about load-outs and stuff, I want to make a map with infinite dual MP5 ammo and just an insane amount of melee enemies.

Some maps designed around Alex and Ash's gameplay style would be cool but I don't know how that would be done. Littering a map with the heavy guys and melee guys might work because I really like how you can execute an enemy with Alex and continue spraying down more people with Ash. Only problem is the glitchy pathfinding for Ash.

Also really hope you get the option to play as Jacket for custom levels too, with all the masks and stuff, maybe Biker as well.

Still sort of holding out hope there is a super secret ending people will discover because I really dislike the ending, but then again I seem to hate most game endings nowadays.

Still glad I got the game though, and I really liked the final boss fight, way better than the one in HM1

 

[verdant monkai]

You make some valid points mr emperor. It does feel like you have to plan more than HLM1. I think it makes more sense for the game though, in my opinion Jacket was mentally ill he went out on bizarre fullscale rampages because a voice from a phone told him to. Its a miracle that he survived what he went through. The guys in HLM2 have to try and be smart they've got to calculate when they go out being vigilantes every night.
It makes more sense but I prefer the going in screaming and swinging approach of HLM1 as well.

Also the door system is still completely fucked. The way bastards shoot you from off screen is frustrating as well.

I love the characters as well. The bloody tiger is my favourite, he's an unhinged unemployed killing machine. The Duck twins are cool, the bear feels a bit OP for a bit then you run out of ammo. The Zebra's dodge is unbelievably shit, but I guess you play as him if you don't want any gimmicks a'la Jacket from the first game.

The story is... interesting I'll need to finish/understand it before I pass judgement.

Overall I'd say its a good sequel.

 

[Zhukov]

It's just a map pack for the first game with more characters and shittier controls.

The controls in the first game were already barely adequate, that fact that they had to add a lock-on in a M+K controlled game says it all. I don't know what they did to it this time, but aiming is kind of a chore and the lock-on is as clumsy and unreliable as always.

Getting one-shot from off screen is just as annoying as it's always been. They really needed to design the maps so you can always see the whole of whatever room you're in on the screen at once. They did not do that.

Haven't played enough to comment on the story, but what I've seen was of little interest.

Music and atmosphere is the same as the first game.

 

[Just Ebola]

I haven't finished it yet, but I would say it's been a positive experience so far. Sure it's more of the same, but that's what I wanted. The level design is pretty clunky though, in the first HLM if one route didn't work for you, chances were you could take a different path. It's a bit paradoxical but the levels now are somehow more open and more linear at the same time. But by 'more open' I just mean that the rooms are bigger, not that you have more options on where to go.

Can't weigh in on the story because I haven't finished it, but there's more jumping around than I was expecting. My biggest complaint is the reliance on guns, it's pretty much the only way to combat the whole open-floor design. Dying in this one is a lot more frustrating because it takes way longer to plan and progress.

Most of the characters so far are unlikeable, but fun to play as. Especially Alex and Ash. Takes a bit of getting used to but they're an interesting pair. They malfunction half the time, but I would much rather the developers try something daring and not get it perfect than just not innovate at all.

All in all, I like it. HLM2 seems way more ambitious than the first one.

 

[Somekindofgold]

HLM2 came close to real greatness, and then it just smashed into a brick wall.

The complaints I have are few, but in my opinion break the game. The switch from almost claustrophic level design to wide open spaces, as well as the sheer amount of enemies with guns stationed at windows, actively discourages from the best part of the first game, speed. The greatest moments in HLM1 were when you cleared an entire level without stopping in one fluid, almost graceful scene of gore, and you replayed the game to try and get faster and get longer combos. You cant do that in HLM2, instead you have to be extremely cautious and play as a sniper, or abuse the AI and bait them.

These wide open spaces also lead to a new importance on guns, the least interesting part of Hotline Miami's combat. Melee was the bread and butter, and guns were relatively rare because they attracted too much attention. Now you NEED to use guns and its just not as visceral as it was.

My third complaint, the masks are gone, and in their place we have a dozen characters, most of whom have few game changing gimmicks and tricks. The Fans (and a couple of others I wont say in case its spoilers) deliver the most variety, but the other characters are just dull. Ironically, HLM1 had far more variety in its gameplay and it's a fraction of the length of its sequel.

I'm going to not spoil the story, but theres a moment around halfway through the game where it just all comes tumbling down (you'll know it when you see it), and it was after that the game became more of a hassle than an enjoyment.

I loved HLM1, I played through it a week ago to get those last few As I needed, and HLM2 is just a pale shadow in comparison. I'm sure a lot of people will like it, but its just disappointing to me and a lot of people I know who were looking forward to the game.

Soundtrack isnt bad though.

EDIT: Okay the soundtrack was actually great, and Rust is the best god damn song on it.

The best thing about HLM2, my favorite thing, was the atmosphere, that feeling of death, madness and impending doom that saturated the game. You could hear it in the music, see it in the growing destruction and decay of the city in the loading screens, and it was disturbing, in a good way.

 

[Genocidicles]

I thought it was fucking sweet, the only gripes being storyline related ones (so not that important).

Namely

Spoiler: ending spoilers yo

How we didn't get to assassinate the presidents. Seriously, a level where you play as the crazy general who founded 50 blessings, being just as badass as his underlings and killing secret servicemen wearing his puma mask would have been way better than the goddamn detective levels which just seemed irrelevant to the plot.

Oh yeah, also there wasn't enough Jake levels. Crazy ************ deserved way more levels than the detective.

 

[MustardTiger]

I'm going to not spoil the story, but theres a moment around halfway through the game where it just all comes tumbling down (you'll know it when you see it), and it was after that the game became more of a hassle than an enjoyment.

I'm going to go ahead and guess at the moment you mean. So, spoilers, people

Spoiler

Do you mean the part where where The Fans all get killed? Because honestly, for me, when that happened and I realized it wasn't some hallucination it actually genuinely upset me and I didn't really have as much interest in playing the game anymore.

They were the best characters. Real fun to play as. Call me crazy but I figured with all the hype they had, all the features in promo material, and just how popular they were with players they would last more than just 5 levels before getting killed off screen :

 

[Somekindofgold]

I'm going to not spoil the story, but theres a moment around halfway through the game where it just all comes tumbling down (you'll know it when you see it), and it was after that the game became more of a hassle than an enjoyment.

I'm going to go ahead and guess at the moment you mean. So, spoilers, people

Spoiler

Do you mean the part where where The Fans all get killed? Because honestly, for me, when that happened and I realized it wasn't some hallucination it actually genuinely upset me and I didn't really have as much interest in playing the game anymore.

They were the best characters. Real fun to play as. Call me crazy but I figured with all the hype they had, all the features in promo material, and just how popular they were with players they would last more than just 5 levels before getting killed off screen :

Spoiler

Yep thats the one. The Fans were the best part of the game, both in characterization and gameplay, and they were killed off and instead we got to play with Detective Pardo, the most boring guy in the game. Of course Dennation did it on purpose, the Fans were a representation of the fans of HLM1 so their death was meant to be symbolic or something. So its hilarious that their death is when HLM2 took a turn for the terrible.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

I'm only up to about Act 3 (I don't even know how many there are) and I'm seeing a bit of what people are complaining about. Much more guns, more chances of getting shot blind-sided, and more cautious gameplay. I remember in HM1 there was only ONE place where you couldn't see long enough where you could get shot off screen. But even then you could flank that one guy by going out on a balcony.

I've encountered it in HM2, but managed to side step it somehow, more strategy and tactics rather than instinct. There was one freakin' impossible guy to get the drop on due to the long distance, but I could see him from a totally different section, put the lock on, and then run all the way around shooting blind and somehow get him because the lock didn't disengage. Kinda broken.

Overall, still loving it though. The tone of the story, the violence, the music, the art design....pure brilliance.

 

[the_dramatica]

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Soundtrack is good again, visuals are okay, story is great, but map design and optimization thrown through a window. It really is a waiting simulator compared to the first game.

Crosshair sensitivity was balanced with consoles in mind and I sometimes can't even see the crosshair over the terrain. It really plays bad on m/k, which means i'm not concerned with rerunning it for highscore.

The buggy doors, the windows, the screen view, the crosshair, the aiming, the mask choosing, all went down. The first game straight up has better gameplay.

 

[EmperorZinyak]

I guess the general consensus is that the level design is the most glaring issue with the game. I'm sure the upcoming level editor will let us create much better environments, since the developers were apparently creating levels for a different game.

 

[Kanova]

Level design sucks. Too big, not as fast paced. Too jumbled of a story, leaping between a bunch of different characters. Music isn't as intense as the first one. First one, 10/10, second one 6/10. Disappointment.

 

[deeman010]

I disagree with a lot of the reviews and its probably because I love a good challenge, so the increased difficulty with this one was a pleasant surprise to me. It seems like the second game relies more on planning and perfect execution rather on the sheer thrill and adrenaline based killing of the first which is probably why a lot of people dislike the second. Personally, I like the new mask system as I would only pick the Frog mask in the previous game and this new system allows for multiple unique ways to clear a level.

 

[Somekindofgold]

I disagree with a lot of the reviews and its probably because I love a good challenge, so the increased difficulty with this one was a pleasant surprise to me. It seems like the second game relies more on planning and perfect execution rather on the sheer thrill and adrenaline based killing of the first which is probably why a lot of people dislike the second. Personally, I like the new mask system as I would only pick the Frog mask in the previous game and this new system allows for multiple unique ways to clear a level.

There is challenging, and then there is bullshit. Being sniped because you cant see the enemies even when shift looking is blatant bullshit. It was bad enough in the first game when it happened once, now its nearly every level. Difficulty is good, but not this kind.

The level design is just..I dont get how bad they could screw it up.