How can you make the player feel underpowered but not weak?

[G-Force]

Just recently I 100% Tomb Raider and gave Far Cry 3 a spin and while I loved playing both games I did noticed a big disconnect with the narrative with the gameplay with the protagonists.

Both of these game feature main characters who face life threatening situations and lose their innocence as their will to survive forces them to change in order to adapt to the harsh conditions around them. Both in Tomb Raider and in Far Cry 3 the protagonists doubt their own abilities and have never been in a life or death situation where they are initially overcome with nerves due to their inexperience. We are shown that they've never taken a life before and are incredibly green when it comes to combat and the game shows their evolution.

The only problem is the minute I take control of these characters I am a killing machine. My first few kills in Tomb Raider were headshots which were possible with how fluid the controls were meanwhile in Far Cry 3 I was able to raid a guard post on my own before the third upgrade. I was not taking a rooking and turning them into a killer, instead I was playing as killers and leveling them up to be death machines. I don't mind playing as someone who is not a super badass but it takes me out of the story when a character is going "oh god I can't do this I'm so nervous" right after I just finished a firefight against a small army where all the enemy soldiers are sporting gunshot wounds to the face. I contemplated what the games would need to do in order to make the progression more gradual but my only solutions (weak starting HP, increased gun sway, reduced accuracy) all stem from just wreaking the controls which just would lead more to frustration than empathy.

To contrast my experience I'm currently playing Last of Us which has nailed the vibe I want. Joel is one of the more under powered protagonists I've played as which is ironic since he's the most experienced killer out of the three that I mentioned. In Last of Us I know full well how weak I am in combat and where charging into a gang of enemies or even two enemies is just suicide. The game encourages me to run away, to fight like a coward, to be super careful with my shots and how often I fight. In all intensive purposes I am a weakling but I never felt like I'm playing a nerfed character or had an horrible experience.

How do you draw the balance?

 

[OneCatch]

How do you draw the balance?

I know the feeling. When I was playing Far Cry 3 I waited a bit before doing the story missions, so ended up with the player character giving me a nervous pep talk while I trivially stormed a ship using a veritable arsenal of hi-tech weaponry, after murdering my way through a legion of enemies on my way there. It's a bit of an immersion breaker!

As for how to balance it, there are a few things I'd suggest:

No one-hit melee kills

No hit detection on the HUD or as audible cues. That 'squelch' sound effect when you headshot is something that's rampant in games at the moment - it's one of those things you just can't unhear.

Make damage a little varied. Instead of bullets doing a fixed amount of damage, give them a reasonable range to add a bit of unpredictability. Preferably extend this to damage inflicted on the player (within reason).

Another thing that might help is restricting field of view. Metro 2033 is certainly effective because of it (though admittedly that's a horror game, so might not be applicable to FPS in general).

None or restricted radar

Decent AI, decent AI, decent AI. (that was the major weakness in Far Cry 3 imo)


It's about making things a little more unpredictable for the player. If you can pull off headshots or quick kills with certainty then you don't feel vulnerable. Even if you've got restricted health and movement, or are weaker than the enemies, if things are predictable, then you'll feel overpowered.

Conversely, if things remain unpredictable and fluid, forcing you to replan, lose momentum, then you're more likely to feel vulnerable as a character.

 

[Bad Jim]

I think the words underpowered and weak actually mean the same thing really.

But I think the idea is to give the player a way to win other than just charging in, then making the enemies hard enough so that 99% of players cannot beat them just by charging in. Maybe you have to sneak like in Metal Gear. Maybe you have to isolate them and pick them off. Maybe you have to maneouvre carefully among cover to screen yourself from most of the enemies at any given time. Maybe you have to work out appropriate tactics for different situations.

It's all down to level design really. Excessively linear levels are rather bad for this, you need some room for maneouvre so you can attempt it in many different ways, even if there is only one way that really works.

 

[G-Force]

I think the words underpowered and weak actually mean the same thing really.

But I think the idea is to give the player a way to win other than just charging in, then making the enemies hard enough so that 99% of players cannot beat them just by charging in. Maybe you have to sneak like in Metal Gear. Maybe you have to isolate them and pick them off. Maybe you have to maneouvre carefully among cover to screen yourself from most of the enemies at any given time. Maybe you have to work out appropriate tactics for different situations.

It's all down to level design really. Excessively linear levels are rather bad for this, you need some room for maneouvre so you can attempt it in many different ways, even if there is only one way that really works.

The reason why I put the two together is that there is a difference.

In last of us Joel is not weak and is a very capable man and as the player I do not feel weak as when I engage in situations that Joel can handle himself him I know I can win and are confident in my abilities. See one runner or two I feel confident charging into battle with my fists but when I see three or four then I have to really plan ahead as those odds do not look good in my favor. Survival was not certain and only through using my wits would I comeup on top.

In Tomb Raider I never felt like the odds are against me and that no matter how many bad guys shooting at me I knew I was going to win. This sounds like a strange complaint but Lara was too fluid to control. Every motion and movement I wanted to make I did with ease so no matter how weak they wanted to make her as long as I the player was good at games then I can win

 

[josemlopes]

Make it so that with enough caution and skill you can beat the thing. All Far Cry 3 had to do was give a bigger RPG focus (to simulate the increasing skill of the character) to the point where you upgraded his speed, dexterity (affecting things like gun recoil, weapon sway, etc...) and some other things.

Basicly you need to start with a character that while not powerfull in combat does have the advantage of having a player for a brain so you would have to use your wits to find a way of taking them out one by one, aka, use stealth.

Another thing is reduce the killcount. In Lara if she had less targets (but each being more dangerous) it would make her more underpowered but still strong enough to overcome thougher enemies (not as many though or it could be too difficult for the player, but that even fits well with the theme of the game)

 

[Azure-Supernova]

Conversely, if things remain unpredictable and fluid, forcing you to replan, lose momentum, then you're more likely to feel vulnerable as a character.

I think the big hurdle is the competence of AI, I've yet to play a game that gets it right. Higher difficulty is almost always simply increasing enemy health/damage resistance and decreasing the players as it goes up. But when we achieve AI that change tactics based on the situations they face with the player. I'm not sure how that's going to work exactly, I'm hardly a programmer, but I think that's really what's needed to make difficulty feel more natural. Unpredictable enemies that work around and against us, rather than acting as cannon fodder between you and the next checkpoint.

 

[The_Lost_King]

What they need to do is to take the Darksouls approach. If you have a good enough understanding of the mechanics, you should be able to beat your foes, but it won't be easy. Atleast that is what I assume Dark Souls is like, I never really liked it, becuase I never got into it enough to learn the game mechanics.

I love Skyre. I die all the time, and there is only 1 cheap death(fucking kill cams with two-handers). However, when I die, I know it is my fault and I will eventually learn how to fix it. This style of play is the most rewarding. You also still get the sense of progression. Those bandits that killed me 1,000,000 times earlier will die easily, however these bandits will still pose a challenge.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Hhm... Well I was about to go to bed but I'll mention that the last game to trully give me a sense of thrill while fighting was Fate/Extra. I actually had to take a break a few times when I was fighting certain bosses because of how tense I was.

 

[LetalisK]

In all intensive purposes I am a weakling but I never felt like I'm playing a nerfed character or had an horrible experience.

Intents and purposes. Because I'm anal like that.

I know it's a completely different genre, but I always felt like XCOM: Enemy Unknown nailed it. You can upgrade your armor, weapons, and skills but you still get steamrolled if you make a mistake or get a little too eager and over extend yourself. Even when I played it on Easy and was having fun just killing aliens every once in awhile complacency would get the best of me and half my squad would end up dead.

 

[bug_of_war]

The problem is that the story doesn't fit the gameplay mechanics at all, at least that's what I found for Far Cry 3 (didn't play Tomb Raider). Basically, you're suppose to be a scared kid, but the gun play/knife wielding and general openness of the game itself are suited to people whom know how to aim, plan attacks and skillfully take out an area. The only real way to stop that is to make the game more linear, or make the gun wielding and all that REALLY poorly and force players to level up their handling skills before they can start doing stuff like running up behind guards, pulling a pin on their grenade and kicking them into their buddies. It doesn't help how easy it is to unlock new guns and weapon mods, or how easy it is to craft in the game.

So yeah, the gameplay is too good for the story.

 

[saintdane05]

Star them off overpowered as fuck. Case Study: Symphony of the Night. You start with Alucard causing giant wolves to burst into flames by staring at them funny, and get reduced to a whimp whacking skeletons with a stick. Incites them to get back to Goku mode.

 

[Callate]

I'll just state right here that I'm not sure aiming for that is always going to be a good idea. It's great to have a variety of games, but games run in packs (as I'm sure everyone has noticed), and a trend of "depowering" games seems likely to deal us ten games you'll want to throw against the wall for every game approaching "Last of Us". If "Tomb Raider" or "Far Cry 3" pull a little too much to the "badass" direction, well, they're still good games.

Okay, disclaimer out of the way, back to approaching the question itself, at least as a mental experiment.

Way back in the day, there was an arcade game called "Bezerk". Very, very simple: your human character is in a simple maze full of robots. Touching the walls kills you. You have a laser that destroys robots with one shot; they have a similar weapon that can kill you. They aren't very bright; if you're careful, you have a pretty good chance of evading fire and destroying all the robots, or at least making your escape from one of the doors in each level.

The catch: "Evil Otto". If you linger too long in any room, trying to play it safe, a giant bouncing head that goes through walls will appear and come after you. It ignores your laser fire; it starts slow, then gets faster. Eventually, if you hang around too long without escaping, it will kill you.

It seems like there could easily be a parallel it modern games. Okay, so the grunts aren't so hard once you get used to them, but the more of 'em you take down and the more of your own sweet time you take doing so, the better the chance the "big bad" is going to come for you. And maybe you can even beat the big bad, or at least drive him away- but it will always cost more of your life, bullets, and precious resources than you would prefer. You don't feel good for surviving the big bad- you just feel that you've caught the edge of the cliff after nearly taking a fatal spill.

Far more difficult to pull off: bad guys that learn. So you just took out that base; don't you feel good. You've also just given the bad guys a great opportunity to study your tactics. Next time you think it's as simple as thumping a guard and disabling the alarm, you discover that the "alarm" was a decoy and "disarming" it sets off the real alarm. Or gives you a big ol' electrical jolt, because cutting the red wire doesn't work any more. And maybe you learn from that for next time- but so does the enemy.

Simple and mean: dying doesn't mean you get new info. When you get back to your checkpoint, the positions of guards and treasure in that place you just took on have been scrambled. Dying just means another chance, not a better one.

 

[thatonedude11]

As for how to balance it, there are a few things I'd suggest:

No one-hit melee kills

No hit detection on the HUD or as audible cues. That 'squelch' sound effect when you headshot is something that's rampant in games at the moment - it's one of those things you just can't unhear.

Make damage a little varied. Instead of bullets doing a fixed amount of damage, give them a reasonable range to add a bit of unpredictability. Preferably extend this to damage inflicted on the player (within reason).

Another thing that might help is restricting field of view. Metro 2033 is certainly effective because of it (though admittedly that's a horror game, so might not be applicable to FPS in general).

None or restricted radar

Decent AI, decent AI, decent AI. (that was the major weakness in Far Cry 3 imo)


It's about making things a little more unpredictable for the player. If you can pull off headshots or quick kills with certainty then you don't feel vulnerable. Even if you've got restricted health and movement, or are weaker than the enemies, if things are predictable, then you'll feel overpowered.

Conversely, if things remain unpredictable and fluid, forcing you to replan, lose momentum, then you're more likely to feel vulnerable as a character.

I agree with most of this post, except for the limiting FOV. Some people get nauseous if the field of view is too low, and that is never a good thing.

In addition, making the controls a bit clunky can help (Last of Us did this to great affect in my opinion), in addition to making the game control somewhat differently than standards of the genre, forcing experienced gamers to learn the controls and make them fight against muscle memory.

Another thing is restricting resources. This has to be done carefully, as it can cause the player to never use some tools because they are hard to get a hold of. Severely restricting the amount of resources carried is a pretty good compromise, as the player can find ammo or grenades easily, but can't just spam them (again, I think Last of Us did this pretty well).

 

[SadisticFire]

Spoiler: Yay Spoiler Snips

Conversely, if things remain unpredictable and fluid, forcing you to replan, lose momentum, then you're more likely to feel vulnerable as a character.

I think the big hurdle is the competence of AI, I've yet to play a game that gets it right. Higher difficulty is almost always simply increasing enemy health/damage resistance and decreasing the players as it goes up. But when we achieve AI that change tactics based on the situations they face with the player. I'm not sure how that's going to work exactly, I'm hardly a programmer, but I think that's really what's needed to make difficulty feel more natural. Unpredictable enemies that work around and against us, rather than acting as cannon fodder between you and the next checkpoint.

Payday 2 has a little bit of that. As you increase in difficult AI would start to use more cover, and use more smoke screens more as well. They also seem to stack on doorways(Get on the sides of the door way than rush at once.) as it gets more difficult.
But to make the player feel underpowered also might need a trick. Maybe the first shot of an enemy needs to do multiple damage modifier. To make them feel like they don't exactly have that much health, but regenerate it back. And yeah, smarter AI in general.
Oh and this

I agree with most of this post, except for the limiting FOV. Some people get nauseous if the field of view is too low, and that is never a good thing.

I can't stand a even small change in FoV. It either makes me nauseous or makes me so uncomfortable that I just can't play for more than ten minute intervals. It's one of the reasons why I think I have such a big issue trying to switch monitors to a higher res. (1080x1024 to anything else really)

 

[Evonisia]

Underpowered but not weak? Give the character shitty controls but they're still bearable. Silent Hill can be defined by this because good luck taking on a few monsters at once but if you swing a stick at a monster enough it'll go down for long enough for you to run away.

 

[THEMILKMAN]

Underpowered but not weak? Give the character shitty controls but they're still bearable. Silent Hill can be defined by this because good luck taking on a few monsters at once but if you swing a stick at a monster enough it'll go down for long enough for you to run away.

Haha yeah, the horror genre is unique in that it's maybe the only genre in which bad mechanics can actually benefit it, or at least the horror mood. Like Silent Hill's crappy combat mechanics, the fog that was meant to hide unrendered far-off objects but had the added benefits of being creepy and letting baddies sneak up on you, and Resident Evil's old tank controls.

 

[Evonisia]

Underpowered but not weak? Give the character shitty controls but they're still bearable. Silent Hill can be defined by this because good luck taking on a few monsters at once but if you swing a stick at a monster enough it'll go down for long enough for you to run away.

Haha yeah, the horror genre is unique in that it's maybe the only genre in which bad mechanics can actually benefit it, or at least the horror mood. Like Silent Hill's crappy combat mechanics, the fog that was meant to hide unrendered far-off objects but had the added benefits of being creepy and letting baddies sneak up on you, and Resident Evil's old tank controls.

Yeah, now I should start thinking about a game with crap controls but still relatively enjoyable in another genre, because Horror's too obvious.

 

[Joccaren]

1. No excess of ammo. In Farcry 3 the knowledge that I had basically infinite ammo meant I'd take out all my powerful weapons and blast things to hell and back. In Metro, the fact that I'm always low on ammo causes me not to buy new guns, and to be careful as to which weapon I use, and where I shoot, to make sure I don't run out in a fight, or be out when I need it later.
2. Smarter enemies. Really this should be enough said, but enemies that are intelligent enough to pose a risk to the player. Who will outmaneuver an unprepared player who doesn't know the area. Who will use flanking tactics, attacking from multiple sides, and staying in cover when they are a target. Hard to do without making the AI seem cheap, but it can be done.
3. Shake things up every now and then. One thing Farcry 3 did well in that aspect for me was the heavily armoured enemies. Before you can melee them to death, they are juggernauts. They will take 3 whole assault rifle clips without going down. Of course they had to ruin that by having heavy weapons like RPGs lying around, but if you throw enemies like that at players, or like the Abnormal Titans from attack on Titan who are unpredictable and don't act like the other Titans, it makes the player feel vulnerable, though not weak, because they are not sure what to expect.

 

[PatrickXD]

Playing on a harder difficulty usually helps. Having played the previous far cry games on hard I decided to jump into 3 on the hardest difficulty and had a blast. At the beginning of the game you absolutely have to be stealthy because you die very easily and pretty much can't shoot accurately enough to guarantee heat of the moment head/upper body shots.