How comes gamers are "entitled" when they don't get what they expect from a product?

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endtherapture

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Nov 14, 2011
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Title says it all, why do people complain about gamers being so entitled?

If I buy a dishwasher, and it doesn't wash dishes correctly, or I have to buy $10 add on so that I can wash forks with it, and I said "NO THESE THINGS SHOULD BE STANDARD!", would that make me entitled? I don't think so, so why is it the case with games?

Why are gamers specifically targeted as being entitled?
 

distortedreality

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May 2, 2011
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I don't think anyone has said that someone is entitled just because they're unhappy that the product they paid for didn't come out quite as expected....

Edit - and yes, that analogy was fairly terrible.
 

hazabaza1

Want Skyrim. Want. Do want.
Nov 26, 2008
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OH MY CHRIST YES WE KNOW MASS EFFECT 3'S ENDING SUCKS JESUS LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE PLEASE
Sorry, I just got a bit worked up.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Gee, it's not like we've seen this discussion a dozen times in the last week.

Oh wait.

Ah well, lets get the party rererestarted shall we? Someone page Zeel.

My take on the DLC entitlement thing is that there is simply the products being offered and the price being asked. We do not somehow "deserve" the "full product", nor are we owed anything by those who produce it. It is either worth the money or it is not. If so, we buy it. If not, we don't.

If you're referring to the ending debacle (are you? I can't tell), then that's another matter. I haven't really seen many people rolling out the e-word in relation to that. I'm sure someone has done so, but it isn't a notable trend, at least from where I'm standing.

PS. The manner is which some fans express themselves doesn't help. People would be a little less likely to label us as entitled whining children if we weren't constantly characterizing ourselves as such.
 

Farseer Lolotea

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Mar 11, 2010
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endtherapture said:
Why are gamers specifically targeted as being entitled?
Because some fans take criticism of their game as a personal attack. I couldn't tell you why this is the case, but...yeah.

And what's more: that specific sort of fan seems to respond in an especially negative manner to constructive criticism. It comes off almost as "if you like something, you're not allowed to admit that it's less than perfect."
 

romxxii

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Feb 18, 2010
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bahumat42 said:
endtherapture said:
Title says it all, why do people complain about gamers being so entitled?

If I buy a dishwasher, and it doesn't wash dishes correctly, or I have to buy $10 add on so that I can wash forks with it, and I said "NO THESE THINGS SHOULD BE STANDARD!", would that make me entitled? I don't think so, so why is it the case with games?

Why are gamers specifically targeted as being entitled?

because your analogy blows.

Dlc never takes a core part out of the game.

A better example would be having to pay to unlock extra space in your dishwasher.

It does everything it needs to, but you can have more of it if you pay for more.

As much as people like to ***** and moan most dlc isn't that bad.
Even your analogy is incorrect. The DLC squadmate was already in the distribution disc. A lot of people have proven this by editing config files.

So the more appropriate analogy would be: paying to unlock extra space that's definitely already in the dishwasher, and that you can probably unlock yourself if you knew what you were doing.

But TBH, I'd pay for the DLC anyway (and I did). The config files only unlock the DLC squadmate, not his mission. That part comes with the actual downloaded content.

The real ripoff would be the Digital Deluxe edition, which gives you crappy weapons, crappy armor, a dog that just wanders the shuttle bay, and in-game clothes. The cross-game unlockables (for playing the Kingdoms of Amalur demo) are far better. And doesn't cost extra.

It's more cost effective IMHO to buy the regular game, then pay the 10 dollars US for DLC.
 

Vegosiux

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May 18, 2011
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Farseer Lolotea said:
endtherapture said:
Why are gamers specifically targeted as being entitled?
Because some fans take criticism of their game as a personal attack. I couldn't tell you why this is the case, but...yeah.

And what's more: that specific sort of fan seems to respond in an especially negative manner to constructive criticism. It comes off almost as "if you like something, you're not allowed to admit that it's less than perfect."
Yeah, pretty much this...

Imagine if EA/BioWare made Baldur's Gate 2 today...$10 for being able to use Viconia and have her character-specific events happen, $10 for the Sahuagin City (that can easily be skipped and isn't exactly plot relevant so it can be taken out, right?), $10 for Lilarcor, $10 for a side quest pack in Athkatla (you don't need them all to raise enough gold to continue anyway, right?)...

...that's basically the problem. We used to get a full game that was a lot bigger and offered a lot more playtime. Now, some studios seem to be hell bent on stripping it down to the skeleton, offer that skeleton as the "game", while everything that fleshes it out is just a "bonus" that they don't "owe" to us, and anyone who still thinks some meat should come on those bones if only so we don't break our teeth when we bite in is "entitled".
 

Dandark

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Because fans can't stand the fact that some people don't think their full game is worth the price that is asked for it. A full game costs £40, it's always been that way. Day 1 DLC is extra content released at the same time, it's essentially part of the "full" game. Developers have just stopped including everything in the full game and are instead selling it as DLC. It would be fine but they keep charging full price for the game when it's not the full thing.

The DLC may only be a small part of it, completely uneeded but when you pay full price, most people expect to get the full game. When they realize that there are all kinds of extra things they still need to pay extra for, then they are going to get annoyed.
Big time fans of a game are not going to care, it's worth it for them. People who are not big fans but still want to be able to buy the full game get annoyed at all the extra stuff they are missing out on, despite paying full price.

That is why people get annoyed. They feel entitled, of course they do, why wouldn't they? They paid full price and expected to get the full product, it feels like they didn't. It would have been fine if the For ashes DLC was free with new copies of the game like they did with Zaeed but he isn't. People have a right to be annoyed, fans just dismiss it as entitled whining though because ME fans can't seem to stand critisism. (not bashing ME fans, but some of you can't seem to stand anything negative being said about Bioware or ME.)

Vegosiux said:
Also what this guy above me said.
 

Vegosiux

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May 18, 2011
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Capitano Segnaposto said:
You don't have the money for this hobby? Get a new one.

Rude, crude, but it gets the point across.
*groan* It's not about having money for it, it's about not getting your money's worth because there are some services that use sleazy underhanded practices to milk more money out of you. And the worst bit is, people are defending that, I dunno, I as a consumer am pretty rational about what I throw my money at, I don't spend my money under emotion.

And gaming isn't THAT expensive if you know how to look for good deals and if you aren't a complete recluse (okay, that one I need to work on), either. So, all you accomplished with your post is make yourself look like an ass. But hey, don't let a peasant like me tell your highness to not act like a prick.

A more realistic thing to say would be "Don't want to spend money on this game? Go buy a different one and enjoy that instead." Why yes, good sir, that's exactly what I'm doing ^^
 

42

Australian Justice
Jan 30, 2010
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hazabaza1 said:
OH MY CHRIST YES WE KNOW MASS EFFECT 3'S ENDING SUCKS JESUS LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE PLEASE
Sorry, I just got a bit worked up.
I tried making a thread about Twisted Metal, which i thought was a decent game, and a great entry into the series. but *i know this jokes old but its relevant thus far* It took a Mass Effect 3 to the knee.
 

WoW Killer

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If someone released a washing machine that couldn't wash forks, and charged extra to include that option then nobody would buy it. The difference with gamers is they'll kick up a massive fuss about day one DLC, go and buy it anyway, and then kick up another fuss when it turns out to be just as bad as they knew it was going to be.
 

A-D.

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Jan 23, 2008
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Actually i have to weigh in on this, and im actually ignoring the other Zeel Thread because..well thats a flamewar waiting to happen. Im actually counting the Minutes it will take, but lets move to the point here.

DLC has no bearing on being entitled to anything. However what DLC should be is Additions to the Game, more Quests, more Content, stuff that is not entirely related to the Storyline of the Game. I shall take recent Bioware Games as example, not just ME3.

Long ago, before the Internet was as big as it is today, before Piracy was as widespread, there existed Developers, and Publishers. And they both had one big Goal and one Job they had to do. The Developer creates a Game, a world, narrative, ending, characters, everything. They polish it to such a degree that its going to stay on the minds of the consumers for as long as possible, so that they will fondly remember all those Hours of time spent in these fictional Worlds, replay them at their leisure even. Publishers of course kept check of the bottom-line, they have to market the product, sell it, move the PR along, make People aware it exists and why they should buy it.

Now that we have that out of the Way, lets look at how we are today. The Publisher dictates how long Games can stay in development, they can even entirely abandon Games if they wish, they have far more power than they need and far too much influence on the creative process at work. Of course you cant take forever to polish that nifty Game you're making, but it should be released in its best State possible, not just "when its about ready". If i order a Steak medium-done, i expect to get a Steak medium-done, not well-done and have to complain to the Owner of the Establishment to get my medium Steak, or pay some more Money to get it. But thats a analogy and probably isnt sufficient to get the Point across here.

Mass Effect had DLC, the Game was done, finished, it was all there, the DLC you got? It wasnt mandatory to have, you could buy it, extend the Time spent on the Game. They werent essential to the Plot of the Game or anything similar. Dragon Age Origins had DLC as well, even a full-blown Expansion. Again the whole Game was there, nothing was missing from beginning to end, it was all pretty much self-contained and all but one DLC just explored Questions left after the Maingame ended, or even offered a Way to continue afterwards with the Expansion as the big example. Only one DLC was tied directly to the Plot, but was not essential, it wasnt required, you werent left hanging with countless Questions for not having it. Now lets move a couple years into the future.

ME2 had DLC, a load of them, far more than its predecessor did. Some were good, others great, but also a couple lackluster ones. Zaeed for example, you wouldnt exactly miss him in the overall Plot of the Game, he doesnt exactly bring much to the Story. Same goes for Kasumi, of course both have impact on the Sequel but thats a different Point. Project Overlord? Great DLC, it gives us some exploration, some stuff to do outside the Mainstory, it doesnt exactly factor into it as strongly. Lair of the Shadow Broker however does. The moment you meet Liara, its obvious that the DLC is planned, granted maybe at release it wasnt that the DLC was later, so they moved it back, understandable really. So im not going to fault that, but Arrival? The actual proper Ending of the Game is a DLC, a bad one at that, its short and offers relatively little in comparison to its cost and place in the Storyline.

DA2, released in a pretty good State, as much as Fans might hate the Game, well maybe its not Fans anymore, but thats not important, it was done pretty much. The Cliffhanger ending? Well it sucks a bit, but you can see why, its a set-up, the world has gone down the drain, cant explore all that in the same Game. Yet we have DLC as well, one was fairly small at Release, the other not so much, it contained, as with ME2, a Party Member, in fact a fairly important one that actually had impact on the story and made a late-game Decision all the more important. I cant speak for the others as i dont have them but lets just say, according to what i could get from what i've heard of it, its a bit similar to what Lair of the Shadow Broker did, it gives us Answers, explains a few Points, and potentially even explains the Ending better, but i cant say for sure. So anyone that has played it can probably judge it better than i could.

Now ME3 follows that same Logic. Good Game, but the Ending was terrible. So People are hoping it can be fixed with DLC. Thats a Problem, may i point out its Arrival all over again, it doesnt need to exist, not because the Endings were good by any means in ME3, but that we should have to pay to get the complete Game that we should be having already. DLC is added Bonus, Content beyond the mainstory, in-between, before, after, either is fine, but if it has a big Impact on the storyline of the mainstory, it should be in the Game already from the start, and not held hostage behind a pricetag.

Does that line of thinking mean someone is entitled? Yup. But when you pay 60 Bucks for a Game, then you are entitled to get the full Game, as is, DLC and Expansions are OPTIONAL, and lately thats changing where Developers and Publishers alike are moving to a point where Content is withheld from us that should be there already, they are making it mandatory and ask for even more Money up-front for Stuff that should already be there. Of course it would be entirely different if they came out and said it directly, that some Content will only be available after paying a small extra cost, you cant complain then, but it should be obvious on the Box of the game, not be a afterthought of the publisher or developer.

If the Game costs 60 Bucks, is advertised basicly as a full Game, with all its content in place, then im entitled to all that Content. Its really that simple. Though Bioware is better at hiding the missing Pieces a little, they arent glaringly obvious, like for example Fable 3 was in comparison, but the Point is still the same.
 

Ranorak

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Feb 17, 2010
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If I buy a car, am I entitled to demand all the extra's for no additional cost?
Of course.

I am not entitled to a radio if I buy a car, I'm not entitled to air conditioning.
I can get those as optionals.

Even IF other cars give those extra's away for free.

Now, of course this analogy doesn't fly for on-the-disk-DLC.
Nor for the (less frequent) occasions that DLC actually IS just a part of the main game, instead of a extra.