How could the British school system improve?

[ToastiestZombie]

Oh, and the age thing comes into this, just because you are old, doesn't mean your not a bad teacher, but if you are a bad teacher you shouldn't just be kept on to fill the 'Equality' school thingy.

Whenever I say old in terms of a bad teacher. I mean the type of person who is clearly unhappy and takes there anger out on kids because they "arent as good as the old days". To be honest, you sound a bit like you could be a member of the BNP.

 

[Sleepingzombie]

Ok well I've just started 6th form in a pretty high standard grammar school so luckily I've managed to escape all the crappiness but I do see a lot of problems.

I think that the way subjects are taught is wrong. People aren't taught a subject, they're taught to pass an exam. The way it's set up means no-one really learns anything long time. I think the way teachers handle students is poor too. The old school style of punishment breeds bitterness in students but the more modern age liberal style doesn't work either. I think teachers should be taught to connect with students better, and in turn that will make them more willing to succeed. I think there's also a fundamental problem in society where young people often feel worthless or have no self respect and so have no incentive to work.

Your experiense matches mine, however it seems to be the case all around. Even in university you study for the exam, not the subject.

I know some teachers, some of them are my friends, and they agree. hough their gripes are classes that are too large for them to properly get to know, and connect, to all students. This "lack of connection" ties into the students, young persons, self esteem. A good teacher can work wonders for your life, give you faith in yourself, your future and a subject to boot.

 

[Sleepingzombie]

Ok well I've just started 6th form in a pretty high standard grammar school so luckily I've managed to escape all the crappiness but I do see a lot of problems.

I think that the way subjects are taught is wrong. People aren't taught a subject, they're taught to pass an exam. The way it's set up means no-one really learns anything long time. I think the way teachers handle students is poor too. The old school style of punishment breeds bitterness in students but the more modern age liberal style doesn't work either. I think teachers should be taught to connect with students better, and in turn that will make them more willing to succeed. I think there's also a fundamental problem in society where young people often feel worthless or have no self respect and so have no incentive to work.

Your experiense matches mine, however it seems to be the case all around. Even in university you study for the exam, not the subject.

I know some teachers, some of them are my friends, and they agree. hough their gripes are classes that are too large for them to properly get to know, and connect, to all students. This "lack of connection" ties into the students, young persons, self esteem. A good teacher can work wonders for your life, give you faith in yourself, your future and a subject to boot.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

It's certainly a dilemma. You made a comparison to the German school system, but I really don't think that works too well either, or at least wouldn't in Britain (although this an Irish perspective, so I may be wrong). German and French school systems are certainly efficient, but almost to a detriment. My school is pretty lax, but I know that I go a bit mental when I have more than three worth hours worth of homework. I'm fairly sure I'd just give up if I were in a European system, and there's probably plenty who're in a similar mindset. The actual solution is probably somewhere between the two, but I have absolutely no suggestions as to how to improve the British system.

Edit: Actually, as some people may have already pointed out, the exam system's terrible. Too much emphasis on waffling about certain topics, not enough on actually learning about things you're genuinely interested in. Also, less teachers on power-trips, please. They only ruin the chances of the unmotivated ever trying to learn.

I meant when I made that comparison was not to compare the school system, its just the fact that they know fluent English and we can barely hold a simple conversation. I have not enough knowledge of the French and German school systems to really make a comparison (even though my old german teacher spent most of the lesson ranting about how their schools are better).

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

Whenever I say old in terms of a bad teacher. I mean the type of person who is clearly unhappy and takes there anger out on kids because they "arent as good as the old days". To be honest, you sound a bit like you could be a member of the BNP.

I speak as a student who has just come out of secondary school, having his maths grades screwed up by a teacher who was only there for the one reason, the fact that if the school kept her on board they would get a special 'Age equality award'.
She dragged down everybodies GCSE grades.

So yeah, strong BNP member here *rolls eyes*

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Ok well I've just started 6th form in a pretty high standard grammar school so luckily I've managed to escape all the crappiness but I do see a lot of problems.

I think that the way subjects are taught is wrong. People aren't taught a subject, they're taught to pass an exam. The way it's set up means no-one really learns anything long time. I think the way teachers handle students is poor too. The old school style of punishment breeds bitterness in students but the more modern age liberal style doesn't work either. I think teachers should be taught to connect with students better, and in turn that will make them more willing to succeed. I think there's also a fundamental problem in society where young people often feel worthless or have no self respect and so have no incentive to work.

Your experiense matches mine, however it seems to be the case all around. Even in university you study for the exam, not the subject.

I know some teachers, some of them are my friends, and they agree. hough their gripes are classes that are too large for them to properly get to know, and connect, to all students. This "lack of connection" ties into the students, young persons, self esteem. A good teacher can work wonders for your life, give you faith in yourself, your future and a subject to boot.

I've had a lot of very bad and basically unmemorable teachers in the past. But i've only had about 2 teachers I could really say inspired me to do something im doing today, and sadly one of them was fired from my school last year thus preventing a lot of kids a really inspirational teacher.

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

To my knowledge, only Scottish students get free university education, and even then only at Scottish universities. Students from the EU have to pay the same rates as English students, and anyone from outside the EU has to pay more.

I'm pretty sure that some Eus tudents get free university, even if it's not many.
They may of got a special grant though...

However i am still annoyed about the whole scotland free university thing...

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Whenever I say old in terms of a bad teacher. I mean the type of person who is clearly unhappy and takes there anger out on kids because they "arent as good as the old days". To be honest, you sound a bit like you could be a member of the BNP.

I speak as a student who has just come out of secondary school, having his maths grades screwed up by a teacher who was only there for the one reason, the fact that if the school kept her on board they would get a special 'Age equality award'.
She dragged down everybodies GCSE grades.

So yeah, strong BNP member here *rolls eyes*

Well now that you've put into context I do agree with what you said. My brother was the favorite for my schools head boy, he had helped with a lot of things and been a very very outstanding member of the school. But the role got given to and ethnic minoritie who nobody knows mainly because he was an ethnic and his parents were both surgeons. Lets just say that he has done nothing good with his power as head boy and has basically only been there to make the school look good in open days.

 

[OriginalLadders]

I speak as a student who has just come out of secondary school, having his maths grades screwed up by a teacher who was only there for the one reason, the fact that if the school kept her on board they would get a special 'Age equality award'.
She dragged down everybodies GCSE grades.

So yeah, strong BNP member here *rolls eyes*

During my A-levels I talked to some of my teachers quite a bit and I think a bigger problem is the lack of qualified physics and chemistry teachers. Whenever my school advertised for a science teacher position they get tonnes of people with degrees in biology, a couple with chemistry and rarely ever a physics degree. My A-level physics teacher was unstable, he was going through a rough divorce, losing custody of his kids entirely and was an alcoholic. To put it simply, the guy barely taught and would blow up at people for no reason. No one in my class got above a C in the modules he taught.

I'm pretty sure that some Eus tudents get free university, even if it's not many.
They may of got a special grant though...

However i am still annoyed about the whole scotland free university thing...

Absolutely none of the EU students I know get anything like that, they pay exactly the same as me, and I know people from France to Sweden to Latvia.

EDIT: I have a Scottish flatmate so I hear alot about them, the universities in Scotland are free for a very good reason.

 

[Sleepingzombie]

Ok well I've just started 6th form in a pretty high standard grammar school so luckily I've managed to escape all the crappiness but I do see a lot of problems.

I think that the way subjects are taught is wrong. People aren't taught a subject, they're taught to pass an exam. The way it's set up means no-one really learns anything long time. I think the way teachers handle students is poor too. The old school style of punishment breeds bitterness in students but the more modern age liberal style doesn't work either. I think teachers should be taught to connect with students better, and in turn that will make them more willing to succeed. I think there's also a fundamental problem in society where young people often feel worthless or have no self respect and so have no incentive to work.

Your experiense matches mine, however it seems to be the case all around. Even in university you study for the exam, not the subject.

I know some teachers, some of them are my friends, and they agree. hough their gripes are classes that are too large for them to properly get to know, and connect, to all students. This "lack of connection" ties into the students, young persons, self esteem. A good teacher can work wonders for your life, give you faith in yourself, your future and a subject to boot.

I've had a lot of very bad and basically unmemorable teachers in the past. But i've only had about 2 teachers I could really say inspired me to do something im doing today, and sadly one of them was fired from my school last year thus preventing a lot of kids a really inspirational teacher.

Also something I can relate to -the thing about the good teachers getting fired i mean-.

Now a bad teacher, pedagogically or socialy, can ruin a life, future and subject, for a long, long time.

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

It's certainly a dilemma. You made a comparison to the German school system, but I really don't think that works too well either, or at least wouldn't in Britain (although this an Irish perspective, so I may be wrong). German and French school systems are certainly efficient, but almost to a detriment. My school is pretty lax, but I know that I go a bit mental when I have more than three worth hours worth of homework. I'm fairly sure I'd just give up if I were in a European system, and there's probably plenty who're in a similar mindset. The actual solution is probably somewhere between the two, but I have absolutely no suggestions as to how to improve the British system.

Edit: Actually, as some people may have already pointed out, the exam system's terrible. Too much emphasis on waffling about certain topics, not enough on actually learning about things you're genuinely interested in. Also, less teachers on power-trips, please. They only ruin the chances of the unmotivated ever trying to learn.

I meant when I made that comparison was not to compare the school system, its just the fact that they know fluent English and we can barely hold a simple conversation. I have not enough knowledge of the French and German school systems to really make a comparison (even though my old german teacher spent most of the lesson ranting about how their schools are better).

Sorry, I just really didn't have much to add to the discussion other than that point :/. I'm not really sure about the language thing though. I know pretty much everyone in Western Europe speaks at least the basics of English, but I don't think it's really fair to judge the British system because of that. English the mostly widely spoken language in the world; there are very few places where it's not spoken. In contrast, how often do you see a group of people speaking French or German on your average street (although, I'm really just assuming what things are like in Britain).

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Sorry, I just really didn't have much to add to the discussion other than that point :/. I'm not really sure about the language thing though. I know pretty much everyone in Western Europe speaks at least the basics of English, but I don't think it's really fair to judge the British system because of that. English the mostly widely spoken language in the world; there are very few places where it's not spoken. In contrast, how often do you see a group of people speaking French or German on your average street (although, I'm really just assuming what things are like in Britain).

The fact is that here German and French are a very big focus. In the mandatory curriculum we have 4 lessons a week (the only others in which we have 4 being Maths, Science and English), yet most people leaving mandatory education (who haven't chosen it for GCSEs) can speak the slightest bit of useful French or German. The way languages are taught here is one of the worst ways you can teach a subject like languages.

 

[krytorii]

I'm currently at one of the best state 6th forms in the UK (luckily it's only a relatively short bus journey away). Being there has been a major contrast to my secondary school (which has been sliding downhill since just before I started there).

My English teacher during my GCSEs got suspended for a few months after I left. Her pass rates/grades were well below the MEGs (minimum expected grades) apparently, especially when compared to other teachers with pretty much the same classes. She had no respect from the students (for good reason) and from what I saw, not many of the staff. Also, blatant favouritism.

But hey, she's back there after a couple of months off. Screwing up another year of students.

But being at a 6th form not attached to a secondary school is brilliant. The teachers there know their stuff, the students all want to learn. The college isn't pressurised to take any old idiot and has kicked people out who haven't tried hard enough.

What I think the main difference is between the 2 is the attitude of the teachers. At my secondary school, most of my teachers obviously didn't enjoy their day too much. They had to deal with all the kids bussed in from the council estates at the other end of town, and all the stereotypical bullshit that goes along with that. There was disorder in the classrooms, and you could see the teachers who cared die inside when they were spending half their lesson getting the 2 or 3 disruptive kids in line whilst the other 30 sat there, waiting to learn. Contrast this to my 6th form, where the teachers joke around with students and enjoy their lessons.

Also, control freak teachers. Retrain the majority of them. My aforementioned English teacher was one, as was one of my earlier maths teachers, to name a couple. They both tried to have ABSOLUTE CONTROL, and it failed hard. Compare this to other teachers, who actually had more control because the one disruptive person didnt get a kick out of pissing them off.

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

snip

The fact is that here German and French are a very big focus. In the mandatory curriculum we have 4 lessons a week (the only others in which we have 4 being Maths, Science and English), yet most people leaving mandatory education (who haven't chosen it for GCSEs) can speak the slightest bit of useful French or German. The way languages are taught here is one of the worst ways you can teach a subject like languages.

I doubt that. Seriously, look up anything about the Irish education system and you'll see how terribly the Irish language is taught i.e; at least 13 years (excluding transition year) of mandatory education in the language and the best you can hope for from the average student is that they can add please to the end of "can I go to the toilet". But ignoring that, I sort of see what you mean. I'm guessing there's a lack of investment in the languages (again, similar to the Irish language here) that will probably very difficult to solve. Maybe if a European language was taught in primary school (national school), and was taught well there, it might encourage some interest. This would present the issue of what language would be taught (I'm guessing French, but German would seem like the more sensible choice), but again, I have very little to add here really it seems.

 

[Magic Murder Bag]

Stop giving non-UK people free education.
Seriously, for fucks sake, why is it now that other people from EU countries can go to uni in England FOR FREE and yet i will be lumped with a nice £9000 fee?

But enough about the fact that England is being completely screwed over, back to the matter in hand.

Equality is good and everything, but when it gets to the point that teachers aren't hired on how good they are, but some shitty 'ethnic balancing act', meaning that good teachers get ignored because the school hasn't filled in their quota of people from ethnic backgrounds.


Espeically when the person they hired could barely speak English.
Seriously, pissed me off.


Also more discipline, Kids need to learn discipline.
Seriously, kids these days are a bunch of little tossers.

Oh, and the age thing comes into this, just because you are old, doesn't mean your not a bad teacher, but if you are a bad teacher you shouldn't just be kept on to fill the 'Equality' school thingy.

England - don't forget Wales and Scotland by the way, this is still Britain - is not being screwed over, uni students from the EU pay more for university education. Although the fees aren't paid to the uni itself, this is what foreign students have to pay now to local education authorities:

http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/international/overseas-exchange/incoming/study-abroad/tuition-fees

£4200 for EU students. That's just Leicester University, not even Oxford or Cambridge. Not all universities are charging the £9000 a year tuition fee just yet either.

As for the hiring criteria for teachers, bear in mind that teachers are HINDERED by the current teaching system, which merely asks that students pass exams and nothing more so that government targets are hit. Teachers can't actually teach what they want in an interesting and engaging way for fear that it won't tick the right boxes in the Ofsted report - as for the 'ticking ethnic quotas box' argument, I've only ever seen this argument in The Sun or Daily Mail, never in practice.

Totally agree on school discipline though, without bringing the cane back, (that's a massive step backwards) teachers still need to have a bit more discipline powers than 'please stop doing that or I will....well...please stop doing that...'

EDIT - Between composing this reply and posting it I have noticed several replies that say Scotland is exempt from what I wrote, in which case, sorry I wasn't aware of this when I replied to you

 

[dickywebster]

Having just graduated from uni, id say take it away from the government who seem intent on ignoring anyone who knows what to do atm...
And more generally, stop changing it with each new government, i think its why we have a real mess of a system as its been changed every few years with new ideas and aims been swopped out almost at random.

So i would probably say give the system over to the experts the current gov ignores and tell the gov to go and screw something up that isnt as important, like their own jobs.

 

[dryan21]

I know what people mean about old teachers that just don't care, one english teacher at my school taught an A level class of students the wrong book for the whole year, eventually ending with every single person in the class failing. Somehow she still works there?

 

[Musiclly enhanced]

By scrapping the whole fast-tracking thing. If you haven't heard of it, it's basically doing most of your GCSEs a year early, and it's become really prevalent in my area. Which means a couple of things:

-Weaker students lose the will to live
-Stronger students get average grades
-Your APS is unchanged, because it doesn't take into account more than around 8 or so GCSEs.

Exactly i had to do this and the 1st gcse we did was Maths and by going this a year early we all got D&Cs in a top group of year 9s its affected my grades and most of my friends grades.

also my year at school is suppost to be one of the smartest years that the school has had and so far they have messed it up completely by doing this as we are acheiveing about 20% less than our target is

 

[omega 616]

Get rid of PE, it is basically extended play time for people who like sports and hell for people who don't.

Teach them correct shit, in school I was taught there are 3 states of matter ... I have later found out there are 19. I know they are not all entirely useful but how is knowing about the particle arrangements of solid, liquid and gas going to help us? Either teach us all of it or none of it!

 

[catalyst8]

Stop giving non-UK people free education.
[etc]
Also more discipline, Kids need to learn discipline.
[etc] you shouldn't just be kept on to fill the 'Equality' school thingy.

[...] uni students from the EU pay more for university education. Although the fees aren't paid to the uni itself, this is what foreign students have to pay now to local education authorities:

http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/international/overseas-exchange/incoming/study-abroad/tuition-fees

£4200 for EU students. That's just Leicester University, not even Oxford or Cambridge. Not all universities are charging the £9000 a year tuition fee just yet either.

As for the hiring criteria for teachers, bear in mind that teachers are HINDERED by the current teaching system, which merely asks that students pass exams and nothing more so that government targets are hit. Teachers can't actually teach what they want in an interesting and engaging way for fear that it won't tick the right boxes in the Ofsted report - as for the 'ticking ethnic quotas box' argument, I've only ever seen this argument in The Sun or Daily Mail, never in practice.

You're absolutely right, it's just the same old tabloid nonsense. Make people blame their own shortcomings on foreigners, it's the same as 'Coming over here stealing our jobs.' Pitiful.

Foreign students do indeed tend to pay more, both at undergraduate & postgraduate levels, & substantially so for the latter. To give an example, the Swedish government will sponsor an archaeology PhD at an English university to 100% more than an English PhD student is required to pay.

It makes me angry when students, typically undergrads, whine about student debts. The way it's set up the graduate doesn't even have to pay anything back until they're earning a substantial wage, & then a tiny amount a month. It's a laughable example of the self-entitlement children are currently being brought up with, which brings us to the crux of the OP's question. The problem with education is the way children are spoilt & showered with gifts as a matter of course:

If children gain through no effort of their own they become expectant that that's how life is, & have no appreciation for what they have. Of course when they begin to approach adulthood the world chews them up & spits them out. But I suppose that's fine, we need underachievers just as much as overachievers - those shelves won't stack themselves, & somebody's got to man the tills.