How do people see bad people as having worth?

[Doclector]

I have little mercy for people I view as "bad". Particularly people in positions of power or authority, and people who discriminate harshly. It frustrates me to a level where I vividly dream up horrific things to do to them, because goddammit, if these people don't listen to morality, don't listen to reason, then the only thing left is fear.

This is not a positive. This becomes evident when I calm down and realise that I was perfectly morally prepared to put someone through torment, to listen to their every scream and not only keep harming them, but enjoy it.

Still though, I wonder how most people seem to manage to hold that back. How people manage to see bad people, say, the WBC, as people, not like some sort of vermin that could, and even should, be exterminated on site.

So I ask you, how do you manage it?

EDIT: This is, I should clarify, a genuine question. I'm not saying this in a sarcastic way or in a way that suggests my approach is better than the normal one, I actually do wonder how most people do it.

 

[Lilani]

I don't think not wanting to physically torture somebody who does bad things has anything to do with believing they have worth. It's just not believing that hurting people solves anything. I think the WBC has no worth and I think they have psychologically damaged their children, but I don't think torture is an appropriate punishment for anything.

If you have such vivid imaginations about hurting people, I think you should see a therapist. I don't believe that is in any way normal.

 

[PsychicTaco115]

I think everyone says that they would love to torture someone and hear their screams, yadda yadda yadda

It's a hell of a lot different when you actually do it and not just imagining it

 

[Doclector]

I think everyone says that they would love to torture someone and hear their screams, yadda yadda yadda

It's a hell of a lot different when you actually do it and not just imagining it

I'd hope so. But even thinking about it isn't normal or healthy.

 

[PsychicTaco115]

I'd hope so. But even thinking about it isn't normal or healthy.

I mean, whenever a really young kid is being an asshole I always think of slapping them upside the head...

Then I remember imma pacifist and just cool down with something else

So unless you actually go and torture someone, I'd say you're aight

 

[Zhukov]

So I ask you, how do you manage it?

Because we are sufficiently well balanced and adjusted to distinguish between thinking a person or persons is of no worth and wanting to inflict physical harm on that person?

Incidentally, trying to convince the internet of your supposed psychopathic tendencies tends to come off as affected and unconvincing. Or as a cry for help. One of the two.

 

[Korolev]

It's more common than you'd think.

For the record I sort of agree - I think there are people who are so bad, so horrible, so evil that they don't deserve any mercy. Beria, Himmler, Pol Pot - no one who knows what those people did could have any delusions about who they were. If I could somehow travel back in time and put a bullet in Beria's head, I would do so without hesitation.

I'm not against the Death Penalty for any moral reason. If a person rapes and tortures and kills someone, well, I don't give a single damn what happens to that murderer. I don't think premeditated murder of an innocent person is forgivable. I don't think anyone can be forgiven for such a crime, and I don't think people who would murder an innocent person in cold blood deserves life. I am still against the death penalty simply because I don't trust any Justice system to get it right - innocents have ended up on death row before. But if you could devise a method to 100%, never-a-doubt prove who was or wasn't guilty of premeditated murder (of an innocent person), I would be all for the death penalty.

People say "if we kill a murderer, we're just as bad as the murderer!". Nonsense. Absolute Nonsense. Killing a murderer is not the same thing as killing, say, a 15 year old girl on their way home from school. It's not an equivalent act by any means, and my mind reels at those who pretend it is. Killing someone like, say, Ted Bundy, does not, on any level, make us as bad as Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy wasn't innocent. Ted Bundy wasn't a good man. Killing Ted Bundy is not the same thing as killing someone who hasn't done anything to deserve it.

Really bad human beings, like Beria, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin - they don't deserve mercy nor do they deserve forgiveness. People like Ted Bundy or that monster who kidnapped and enslaved those three girls in america for 10 years (you know, the one who later hung himself in jail? I forget his name) don't deserve mercy. They had none for their victims, why should we have any for them? You should be treated the way you treat others. If you show mercy, if you show compassion, you deserve it in kind. If you do not, you do not deserve it in kind.

Again, I wouldn't execute anyone or kill anyone or torture anyone - not because I think monsters like Ted Bundy don't deserve it (they absolutely do), but because the risk of an innocent being executed and/or tortured is simply too great. We can't afford to make that mistake, EVER. So I am happy that my nation, Australia, doesn't have a death penalty and I would advise the Americans to get rid of their death penalty.

 

[Atrocious Joystick]

Good or bad is not decided by what you think or you what ideals you adhere to. Whether you are a good or a bad person is decided by what actions you take and how you live. You can never claim to be the good guy by virtue of just believing in all the right things and hating all the right things. An evil act is always evil, no matter who is the victim.

Still though, I wonder how most people seem to manage to hold that back. How people manage to see bad people, say, the WBC, as people, not like some sort of vermin that could, and even should, be exterminated on site.

Many people throughout history have thought just like you and attempted to (or even succeded at) exterminate people they believed to be bad. We just don´t tend to think of them as the good guys.

 

[krazykidd]

Good and bad is reletive to the person and society they live in. I think you need to see a therapist and get some help before you hurt someone.

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

I personally do believe that people have intrinsic value. Even cruel people can feel, and you can't just say that pain inflicted on them doesn't count because you don't like them.

To think otherwise would mean to believe that unnecessary suffering was morally neutral, with rightness or wrongness determined by who the victim was.

Furthermore, it's incredibly iffy to think of 'good' people and 'bad' people. Most people are neither, being instead interested in themselves and the groups they identify with. In fact the only people who act with malice, rather than just self interest, tend to be those who think they are 'good' and must punish the 'bad'.

Frankly I don't believe in good or bad people, just good or bad actions/intentions and I believe most people will seek to avoid harm if they are taught how. So to view someone as worthless and hurt them out of hate would be bad (although i would seek to remove people with a history of wrongdoing/harm from the capacity to do so, I'm not a total hippy)

 

[Barbas]

Well, it helps to think of human beings as having inherent worth to begin with. You never know what someone's capable of or what they're going to make out of themselves. Like Taco said, it's also a big step from talking about torturing and/or murdering someone to actually doing it. Dehumanizing people is a big mistake and it can be the first step toward something much worse, but at least you can recognize that it's a potential problem.

 

[Peaceful Winter]

It's more common than you'd think.

For the record I sort of agree - I think there are people who are so bad, so horrible, so evil that they don't deserve any mercy. Beria, Himmler, Pol Pot - no one who knows what those people did could have any delusions about who they were. If I could somehow travel back in time and put a bullet in Beria's head, I would do so without hesitation.

I'm not against the Death Penalty for any moral reason. If a person rapes and tortures and kills someone, well, I don't give a single damn what happens to that murderer. I don't think premeditated murder of an innocent person is forgivable. I don't think anyone can be forgiven for such a crime, and I don't think people who would murder an innocent person in cold blood deserves life. I am still against the death penalty simply because I don't trust any Justice system to get it right - innocents have ended up on death row before. But if you could devise a method to 100%, never-a-doubt prove who was or wasn't guilty of premeditated murder (of an innocent person), I would be all for the death penalty.

People say "if we kill a murderer, we're just as bad as the murderer!". Nonsense. Absolute Nonsense. Killing a murderer is not the same thing as killing, say, a 15 year old girl on their way home from school. It's not an equivalent act by any means, and my mind reels at those who pretend it is. Killing someone like, say, Ted Bundy, does not, on any level, make us as bad as Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy wasn't innocent. Ted Bundy wasn't a good man. Killing Ted Bundy is not the same thing as killing someone who hasn't done anything to deserve it.

Really bad human beings, like Beria, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin - they don't deserve mercy nor do they deserve forgiveness. People like Ted Bundy or that monster who kidnapped and enslaved those three girls in america for 10 years (you know, the one who later hung himself in jail? I forget his name) don't deserve mercy. They had none for their victims, why should we have any for them? You should be treated the way you treat others. If you show mercy, if you show compassion, you deserve it in kind. If you do not, you do not deserve it in kind.

Again, I wouldn't execute anyone or kill anyone or torture anyone - not because I think monsters like Ted Bundy don't deserve it (they absolutely do), but because the risk of an innocent being executed and/or tortured is simply too great. We can't afford to make that mistake, EVER. So I am happy that my nation, Australia, doesn't have a death penalty and I would advise the Americans to get rid of their death penalty.

It is because of people like you that I still have some hope for the human race. You truly understand justice .

 

[shootthebandit]

I personally am a huge fan of the WBC. They are just a bunch of loonies that noone should take seriously. The minute you say things like "I wish the wbc were culled" then you create a situation where what they are saying suddenly becomes relevant. The best solution is not to get angry and respond to them but instead laugh at them and show how stupid their ideas are

personally I find them to be a huge source of comedy because of their almost cartoonish nature. The funniest moment was when they said the helicopter that crashed into a pub in Glasgow was because scotland allowed gay marriage. They said (on twitter) they would come to Glasgow and picket the funerals. They basically had the whole city of Glasgow prepared to wait for them and beat the shit out of them

Just go to www.godhatesfags.com for a genuine source of hilarity

N.b I do not condone their believes I just find them hilarious

 

[Thaluikhain]

I'm not against the Death Penalty for any moral reason. If a person rapes and tortures and kills someone, well, I don't give a single damn what happens to that murderer. I don't think premeditated murder of an innocent person is forgivable. I don't think anyone can be forgiven for such a crime, and I don't think people who would murder an innocent person in cold blood deserves life. I am still against the death penalty simply because I don't trust any Justice system to get it right - innocents have ended up on death row before. But if you could devise a method to 100%, never-a-doubt prove who was or wasn't guilty of premeditated murder (of an innocent person), I would be all for the death penalty.

I'd generally agree with that.

Really bad human beings, like Beria, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin - they don't deserve mercy nor do they deserve forgiveness. People like Ted Bundy or that monster who kidnapped and enslaved those three girls in america for 10 years (you know, the one who later hung himself in jail? I forget his name) don't deserve mercy. They had none for their victims, why should we have any for them? You should be treated the way you treat others. If you show mercy, if you show compassion, you deserve it in kind. If you do not, you do not deserve it in kind.

This...not so much.

Ok, someone has done something we'd consider terrible, and they've been captured. What's the point of killing them then?

Now, kill them before they've committed the crime, sure, you've prevented it. Can o' worms there, admittedly.

But to kill people after they've stopped posing a threat, that's simply revenge. Now, I can definitely feel the urge to harm people like that, but I can't see a good logical reason for doing it.

People say "if we kill a murderer, we're just as bad as the murderer!". Nonsense. Absolute Nonsense. Killing a murderer is not the same thing as killing, say, a 15 year old girl on their way home from school. It's not an equivalent act by any means, and my mind reels at those who pretend it is. Killing someone like, say, Ted Bundy, does not, on any level, make us as bad as Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy wasn't innocent. Ted Bundy wasn't a good man. Killing Ted Bundy is not the same thing as killing someone who hasn't done anything to deserve it.

Problem with that is, that he (or people like him) probably thinks he doesn't deserve to die, and that his victims, in some sense, did.

The difference is that we are right, just like he thinks he is, and that we can, which he could up till he got caught.

 

[Happiness Assassin]

I have in my entire existence only come to see one person as worthless: an uncle of mine who has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. But do you know what thoughts consume me about his existence? Do you want to know how I rationalize such an awful human beings very life? Do you really want to know what I think about such a despicable man? Come closer and I will tell you...

I don't.

I waste neither the time nor energy on people who just aren't worth it. Giving someone like him any more than the barest shred of thought is more than he and his ilk are worth. I just can't bring myself to care about someone who is such a pathetic excuse for a man.

Beyond that, I am of the idealistic type that sees "some" kind of worth people, even at its worst. What is right and what is wrong change from time to time and from culture to culture.

Also, it is funny you should bring up the WBC as they are a positive example of this in my opinion. They are without question, some of the looniest, dumbest, most self-hating, gay-bashingest motherfuckers who have ever roamed the planet... and because of that they have inadvertently helped to shepherd along civil rights for the LGBT community more than most activists ever will in their lifetimes. That is because what the Westboro Baptist Church represents is a common enemy for every single human being who has ever lived, an enemy who not only doesn't want your support but actively tries to bring others into confrontation with them. They have put themselves into a situation where literally no one on the planet could end up seeing them as in the right. The fact that they made their message about gays only serves to put everyone on the same side for once about gay rights and allows us to see hate is at its very worst, yet its most impotent. They have hurt hundreds, if not thousands of grieving family members and for that they are scum, yet at the same time they are a symbol for the opposition to hold up in defiance and say, "Do you really want to be like these guys?" The only power the WBC has is as a constant magnet. They are trolls made flesh.

 

[Directionless]

Because everyone is human. They all have their biochemical predispositions, and are all slaves to human emotions

I've thought about smashing someone's head in with pleasure at points in my life, but that's my emotions turning me into a rabid animal. Without high levels of certain emotions, i can think about those people, and know that i could have chosen the same way they had. I feel empathy for some, and understand others.

For example, pedophiles have my utmost sympathies, while the majority of the population want to see their heads on pikes. I can imagine being in their shoes, and how much of a torment it would be to have to deal with those emotions.

We're all the same fucking thing, and we are at the whim of biochemical processes. That's why i see everyone as having the same worth.

 

[ForumSafari]

I have little mercy for people I view as "bad". Particularly people in positions of power or authority, and people who discriminate harshly. It frustrates me to a level where I vividly dream up horrific things to do to them, because goddammit, if these people don't listen to morality, don't listen to reason, then the only thing left is fear.

This is not a positive. This becomes evident when I calm down and realise that I was perfectly morally prepared to put someone through torment, to listen to their every scream and not only keep harming them, but enjoy it.

Still though, I wonder how most people seem to manage to hold that back. How people manage to see bad people, say, the WBC, as people, not like some sort of vermin that could, and even should, be exterminated on site.

So I ask you, how do you manage it?

Crawwwwling iiiiin my skiiiin...

The reason most people don't do that is, no offence, because they have a more nuanced and rounded view of their fellow human beings. People are not 'good' or 'bad', people are far more complex than that and people almost never think they're bad for doing something, everything you do you do for what you think is a good reason and everyone else is the same.