How do you feel about Japanese games?

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alexhayter86

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Feb 13, 2007
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I just wrote a blog article about this topic and the dichotomy between narratives in Eastern and Western games:
http://www.cordweekly.com/cordweekly/myweb.php?hls=10038&topic_id=4

Note: totally my own subjective opinion, disagree with it as you desire.

Full article posted below:

"In the world of video games, there apparently exists a dichotomy of style between games made in the West (namely North America and Europe) and games made in the East (mostly ? just Japan).

Games from the East have long been entitled to the myth that they?re simply more focused on fun than their Western equivalents. This is generally due to their heritage, which is really the heritage of modern gaming itself: classic franchises such as Mario, Zelda, and Final Fantasy.

Series such as these have largely retained their quality over the years, at least in terms of pure gameplay. They?re fun, accessible and offer us pretty much exactly what we hope for in each iteration.

With the Wii?s popularity at a feverous peak, gamers in forums and the media are keenly debating the argument that Eastern games are about the three glorious ?F?s (?fun?, ?fantasy? and ?freedom?) while Western games are stuck in a rut of ?rockets?, ?realism? and ?rights? (i.e. movie/sports licenses).

Wii Sports just ran away with a record six BAFTAs (British Academy of Television and Arts), acknowledged for its simplicity, accessibility and pure entertainment value.

Super Mario Galaxy, coming to the Wii this month, has already garnered enough critical praise to laud it as the current highest-rated game of the next-gen consoles. Like his Italian cousin, Zelda is going strong, with The Phantom Hourglass pleasing fans on the DS and Twilight Princess wowing launch-buyers on the Wii.

Other new Japanese franchises are making their mark too, but what gamers get most excited about always seems to be the evolved versions of heritage classics. But in my opinion, it does seem a little like beating a dead horse when Japanese developers constantly try to revitalize the same game.

It?s the fans to blame, in a way. After Metal Gear Solid 2, creator Hideo Kojima said he would never make a sequel. But after an endless stream of fan complaints, he was forced to cave, and now we?re getting Metal Gear Solid 4.

Like any brand name, the recognized monikers are usually the best-selling games because fans are simply greedy for more. Once the wheel starts turning, it?s never going to stop.

Bioshock could be an example of this problem in its infancy. An original intellectual property developed by the critically lauded Western creators of System Shock 2 (a game which sold terribly), Bioshock has been hailed by current critics as the finest FPS of its generation, cutting off Half-life 2?s three-year reign. It sold well too, and as a result of the amount of units shipped, we?ve now been promised Bioshock 2 in the not-to-distant future. And then Bioshock 3.

Now Bioshock was an amazing game, and introduced an amazing environment and a gripping storyline. But are there really any more stories to tell in the world of Rapture, the underground city built by Andrew Ryan, the Promethean over-reacher whose desire to create a thriving society was overcome by his desire for power?

I?d argue that one game was enough; it gave us a sublime display of beautiful fantasy that has rarely been matched in video games, or any medium, period. Why not just leave it at that?

My point, which I?m clearly starting to lose, is that these Eastern game franchises are guilty of offering us too much of the same, if only for the sake of comforting familiarity and nostalgic whimsy which both contribute to a reassured sales base.

Fifteen years later, we?ve still got Link doing somersaults over Hyrulean hills, saving Princess Zelda and collecting enough Rupees to buy a boomerang. Mario is still rescuing Princess Peach from Bowser?s lava fortress. Nintendo knows there aren?t really any more vital stories to weave within these imaginary universes, but they really don?t seem to care, because people are going to buy the game.

Some Western games are guilty of the same repetition, but not nearly to the same degree, mostly because they simply don?t hold as strong a heritage as their Japanese peers.

Narrative is the future of video games, and represents the most profound degree of progress to be found in the medium. Narrative isn?t just story, of course, but a combination of things which make the video game medium unique in its potential as an art form.

Narrative is location: the steam-punk under-city of Rapture in Bioshock; the neon-glowing streets of Vice City. It is characters: the personable, sympathetic Alyx Vance of Half-life 2, or your own unique avatar in Mass Effect.

More than anything, it is feeling: the emotions going through your head as a bullet whizzes past your head and lodges itself in the neck of a fellow trooper in Call of Duty 4. In many ways, narrative is the cohesive package of the game, which makes it feel less like a ?game?, and more like a ?text?.

Evidently, I?m a Western guy, in terms of modern gaming. Why? Because the dichotomous relationship between Western and Eastern games ? namely that Eastern games are focused on the three ?F?s, while Western games are primarily concerned with ?rockets?, ?realism? and ?rights? ? is a totally short-sighted misrepresentation. I argue that the real dichotomy is one of narrative quality.

Forget fun, fantasy, freedom, rockets, realism, rights, headshots, crates, boss battles, exploding barrels and princesses. If games want a serious future as an art-form, it?s all about narrative as a whole.

I look forward to the day when we can stop calling them ?video games? and instead refer to them as ?interactive texts?, or something, but if the medium doesn?t continue to strive towards presenting intellectually engaging narratives, it?s never going to happen. Japan, I?m looking at you."

Feel free to sign up to www.cordweekly.com and post your own comments on the website, or simply post here.
 

k[haos]

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Nov 12, 2007
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It doesn't really matter to me.

If a game feels like something I've seen or played multiple times before (sequels being an exception), be it American, Japanese, British or whatever, I usually tend to avoid it. Yes, most games are just like that inherently, but I don't want it to feel that way when I'm playing it. Graphics do not, and never do (in my world) make up for a games lack of creativity or entertainment. Ever.

While controllers do limit what some games are capable of doing, it really isn't that much to make games similar in execution.
It seems that developers keep games similar in certain respects so that people wont have to learn anything new and already have a sense of familiarity with the game. They can jump into the game and pretty much get the hang of in in 30 min or less (which is why I'm looking forward to Assassins Creed. That will be interesting.) and its probably comforting.

I like shooters, and RPGs. But the variety within them seems to be waning.
 
Nov 12, 2007
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modris said:
That said, I have one big complaint about Japanese games. For every great one I've played, there is probably at least one utterly despicable game that should never have been created. I'm talking about rape and pedophilia games. That anyone would ever make such a thing is messed up and that enough people buy them to make them profitable frightens me.

So I think Japan makes some brilliant games and some games that scare the hell out of me.
ah, well, that is the seedier side of the Japanese gaming industry. Thankfully, such games are relegated to the 18+ crowd and more often than not slapped onto the PC only, where there's a lot of accessible adult media available (yay, internet!). Of course, for the younger Romance and Seinen (wide subject spectrum) Manga/Anime audiences, they have Visual Novels, Or as we like to call them, "Dating Sims", since much of the so-called Dating sims are stories with a few RPG Elements put inside to add more depth aside from multiple-choice "choose your path" breaks in the game. these are also available for the 18+ crowd, obviously with more explicit visuals, though there's a fair number of them that are not as vile as the aforementioned rape/pedophilia fantasies, because these other games choose more romantic, not to mention LEGAL and therefore culturally-accepted routes instead. I mainly know this because I am one of those otaku types who are well tied in with Japanese Anime/Manga/Video Game pop culture.

But enough of my pandering. Japan does have some great games, including Gran Turismo (though everyone gripes about lack of photo-real car damage) 1-4, Katamari Damacy, Super Puzzle Fighter, and so on. Other games, like the Japan-only Record of Agarest War, are cross genres. It is a 16+ game that combines an RPG with a Visual Novel/Dating Sim, in which the player continues the game by having the protagonist marry and breed with one of the female characters (which range from scantily-clad bombshells to barely-legal flat-chested Jailbait), though not explicitly (thank god.), to create the protagonist for the next generation, and therefore keeping the game alive.

In conclusion, I like Japanese games, but in order to appreciate the true majority of them, you must have some understanding of the culture.
 

[HD]Rob Inglis

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Jan 8, 2008
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I hold some strong prejudices against Japanese games and media. I mean the commercials are just flipping hilarious, but else is not good in my opinion. Basically (though it's not true, I don't care about specific examples) J-games are teens with pointy hair, ridiculous weapons, and a wholehearted quest to complete. I don't like Japanese media, because American producers are becoming to lazy to come up with anything new or original, but instead riding the wave of anime fandom, making show with American anime animation, which most of the time turns out really bad (except for Avatar, that's the only decent American anime that's come out ever). Basically I'm detracted from J-items, but there is probably some good out there somewhere.
 

Arbre

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Jan 13, 2007
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Without them the world would be sad.
Very few few examples: Gradius, Rez, Ico, Mojib Ribbon, Okami, Devil May Cry, etc.
I realize that on the consoles, most games were japanese games. And not necessarily those with the characters having fancy pointy hairdos.
 

BlueMage

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Jan 22, 2008
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When I think "Japanese game" I typically think "Final Fantasy" ... which is great for the first couple of iterations. But we're now up to, what ... 10? 11? And that's just the standard FF games, not counting the various spin-offs which are essentially the SAME FUCKING THING re-done in another 20+ hour stint of "stand in a line while the enemies do the same and select which one you'd like to slice, after which Girly Protagonist 1 will ***** and whine and infect everyone with the emo."

Let's of course not forget the utter RAPE of my native language that comes from directly translating Moonspeak into real words.

It's not all terrible though - hentai games are good for a laugh, as are the folks who actually play them.
 

broadband

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Dec 15, 2007
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jeffers, youre right about the Tolkien and D&D setting, specialy in the mmos, i bet we have a stupid nurmer of those that dont even try some change with the artwork or something.

i havent played much japanese games, the RPGs withdraw my attention with those turn based, or mmo esque combat systems. buti think i have watched enough of their entretainment for say that they really have a active imagination.
 

Gyrfalconne

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Feb 6, 2008
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I'm a big fan of Japanese culture in general, but I'm not about to demean American games or quality because of it. JRPGS tend to be similar, but they generally feature amazing artwork, music, and different gameplay mechanics. Shin Megami Tensei games rock my socks, but so does the Halo series.

(and let's be honest here, has Microsoft Studios ever put out a really horrible game?)

I'm also a firm believer in the irrefutable fact that everyone should play the Shadow Hearts trilogy.

This thread seems to be getting more on the topic of American games VS Japanese games, though, so I'll get back to the point - Yes, I love Japanese games, but most assuredly not all of them.
 

wormguy

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Feb 6, 2008
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Is it really fair to lump a game in a box because it is Eastern or Western? There are vastly different games within both spheres.

Metal Gear Solid, Katamari Damacy and Fire Emblem all came out of Japan. Very different games. The Elder Scrolls, Halo, and Assassin's Creed all came out of the West. Very different games.

I can say this, though: Western studios pump out a lot more FPSs and Eastern studios pump out a lot more RPGs. Even within those specific genres, there's a lot of variety, though. So I think it's a bit ignorant to say "all Japanese games suck" or "all Japanese games rock". Because that's just not possible.
 

Arbre

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Lance Icarus said:
I love Rouge Galaxy, but that's mostly because I feel the developer Level 5 can do no wrong, especially after Dark Cloud 2. I'll admit there's plenty of cliches, but Rouge Galaxy does cliche right.
The story, which should be very good for a japanese RPG where there's not much role playing in fact, is very poor and extremely nonsensical in that game. That Mio chick, geez, it really killed me. I can't bother continue playing that game. It's polished on the action, but it's particularily exceptional, in fact it's extremely basic and repetitive.
There's lots of good japanese stuff, but the so called RPGs are really getting on my nerves.
Last time, I spent hours in Dragon Quest VIII... geez. Probably one of the less innovative and most time wasting J-RPG.

FFVII was a success, not only because of the market context, its freshness on 3D effects and Sony pushing it, but also because it had real characters, a strong story and a very pleasing combat system with many possibilities.
Even FFXII's gambits loose their interest rather quickly, but at least the story and places are enjoyable. They have their very own identity.

Rogue Galaxy is just a massive rip-off fo pretty much everything that has been done, and it barely tries to alter things to make them look new.
 

Booze Zombie

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Dec 8, 2007
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I don't really think porting games from one culture to another would go very smoothly, due to the fact that the game was made for the populace of it's country of origin.

And on the note of H-games:
What we might consider "pedophile rape games" are completely justifiable smut in Japan, due to the legal sex age being 13 in Japan.
Which I think is also quite significant, I mean that's like saying "You're old enough at 13 make your own choices, you're a person".
It's a very strong message if you think about it.

That age of consent seems to permeate the games, too. In many a Japanese RPG, a wild and western main character who's just barely over or under the legal age of consent must head out on a great journey that will decide the course of their life.
They seem like a celebration of having found the freedom to explore other cultures creatively, changing their olds ways to suit their current needs and expressing that knowledge artistically whilst earning a living, intertwined with that "freedom at 13" consenting age.
If you think about it, that's the goal of quite a few games, too.

Goals:
Stylishly defeat monsters for money.
Buy better stuff with money.
Face demon/antagonist, freedom metaphor.
Revelation for character, along with freedom from whatever restraint was used in the game's context.

Maybe it's just me guessing, though... who knows? But it does seem like they're using western culture in a creative celebration of Japan and it's culture, odd as that sounds.
 

The Madman

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Dec 7, 2007
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This only applies to some of em, but my only real problem with most 'Japanese' games is the convoluted plots and linearity. A note to japanes plot writters out there: confusing, overly complex and convoluted does not mean good! Instead of adding dozens of pointless flat characters for players to remember, flesh out the ones you've already got and give them some personality. Also, quit with the massive Monologues. I'm looking at you Metal Gear Solid series, you're especially guilty of these crimes!

That said I do enjoy em. I was actually playing Final Fantasy 6 Advance on my DS over the holidays and it's excellent (even if it does suffer from the above) and I'm playing Advance Wars: Days of ruin now. Mario Galaxy is bloody awesome stuff too, I'm at 64 stars now and have enjoyed getting every one of em so far, despite the god aweful parody of a 'story' they tacked onto the game which makes me retch. What ever happened to just rescuing the princess?

Oh, and quit it with the anime stuff. I'm sorry, I just don't get it, and while it's not normally a problem sometimes these games just go so overboard with the entire anime look that I can't take it and I ditch the game for something else.

But that's all just me being a grognard. If you want to sound less biased I'd be more than happy to point out American games problems as well as Euro games (Please, please, please hire better voice actors!).
 

EzraPound

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Jan 26, 2008
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It seems that there was a time in the video game industry - perhaps beginning with the NES and ending with the PlayStation - that Japanese developers held most of the cards. Since then, I'd say Western developers ('Western' is the most appropriate term; GoldenEye was British and KOTOR was Canadian) have largely caught up. Case in point were the RPGs on the PS2: yeah, a handful of them were brilliant, but after playing through FFVII and Dragon Warrior VII, among other PS1-era RPGs, I'd rather be playing something more revelatory like Morrowind or Jade Empire than retreading the same anime-inspired shtick.

In other genres post-PS1 Japanese releases have been repetitive, too: for better, in some cases (Zelda: The Twilight Princess), or for worse in others (Sonic Heroes). Admittedly, in the late '90s the N64 possessed some remarkably innovative titles - Super Mario 64 and Zelda: Ocarina of Time among them - but for every Japanese flagship such as these there were five rehashes of Mega Man or Street Fighter waiting to be clawed up by the nearest game retailer.

I suspect this has in large part to do with the fact that Western developers tend to embody Ezra Pound's audodidactic ambition to "make it new" more than Japanese ones (this can be related partly to American dynamicism), who appear to prize insularity and franchise continuity over change. Western developers flourish when designing games that are expansive in nature, or challenge genre limitations, while Japanese ones generally alter their franchises little by little, focusing on small details instead of complete overhauls. Even the SNES-era Japanese games that went a long way to defining the industry were largely improvements upon earlier models: Final Fantasy IV was a refined FFIII, and Street Fighter II was a realization of the ambitions set with Street Fighter I (but unattainable due to a lack of technology). Perhaps the difference was that they had little competition from American companies since the latter were still getting off their feet after the crash of the U.S. industry in '83 (the reasons, of course, are more complicated than this, and it might also be reasonable to surmise that western developers were fueled by the innovative PC titles in the '90s such as Doom, Half-Life, etc).

In saying this, I don't mean to suggest that Western developers are better, but that they represent a more dynamic school of design that is riddled with higher ups, and lower downs. Who is more prolific at any point time will ebb and flow, assuming the two regions possess a similar number of design houses. In the PS2/PS3 generation? Japanese titles are beginning to get on my nerves. FFX? FF7 with better graphics and too many cut scenes. Dead or Alive 3? A touch-up of its forerunner. Super Mario Sunshine? Unspeakably lame.

Breakdown of Innovative Western/Japanese Major Releases, 1996- (not all-encompassing)

WESTERN - INNOVATIVE

Civilization II
GoldenEye 007
StarCraft
Grim Fandango
Half-Life
System Shock II
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Deus Ex
GTA III
KOTOR
Half-Life 2
ETC.

JAPANESE - INNOVATIVE

Super Mario 64
NiGHTS into Dreams...
Final Fantasy VII
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Shenmue
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Metroid Prime
ETC.
 

Necrohydra

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Jan 18, 2008
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Personally..I mostly find myself playing Japanese games. I also mostly play RPG's. Many RPG's coming out are from the east *which is changing of late*, so that has some effect on it. Now, I also try to keep an open mind - I'll play anything you set in front of me. So maybe that view will change if people do enough convincing *i'm already thinking of playing through all those adventure games I missed in the 90's*

As for the claim japanese are guilty of recycling ideas and stories and genres over and over again, I'd like to bring up another example - HOW many WW2 games have there been? Let's not be too agressive against the east, here; all video gaming genres have their faults.
 

Terramax

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Jan 11, 2008
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Yerocha said:
I've played my fair share of them, and I've slowly gotten used to the fact that most of them are vibrant and very strange. I'm not just talking about twisted games like Disgaea and Katamari Damacy.
I'm a proper Sega fanboy and my reason for loving their games so much is 50% because of the lovely colours. Phantasy Star Online, Sonic CD, NiGHTS into Dreams, Jet Set Radio, etc, you just can't beat it.

There's just this beautiful, inviting feeling about them. Western game companies (and presumably gamers) are completely OBSESSED with dark environments. I mean, come now, how many shades of black, grey and brown can people stand.

Sorry if that sounds patronising, but I'd prefer games that send me off with a smile than demonically gritting my teeth when I play 'em.