How do you reconcile "playing for fun" and "following rules to the letter"?

[Reiper]

So my friends and I play board games fairly often, but there seems to be a real divide between the attitudes of the players when it comes to games, and it really seems to be damaging the experience.

I like to play the game for fun, and I am not super strict when it comes to rules. If someone makes a mistake, so long as it is still their turn I will gladly let them take it back so long as it is fairly easy to do (ie moving one piece), especially if we are new at the game or the person just did not understand the rules before they made the move. Another example is games where you are supposed to receive a random faction (ie twilight imperium), I think it is perfectly acceptable for people to choose their factions so people are happy with who they end up with.

On the other hand there seem to be some people who are super anal retentive about rules, and any kind of deviation or take backs makes them get uspset and throw a fit, even in co-op games. For example, we were playing eldritch horror for the first time, and I didn't know that you could not rest on a space with a monster, so I said "I will move and then rest", they reminded me that I cannot do that so I said "oh, ok, well instead I will rest and then move". Of course predictably this caused a tantrum since apparently I was "taking back" even though I had not even touched my piece yet. For the rest of the night the guy who got upset was sulking and wouldn't even talk to me, so it seems that these boardgames are causing much more trouble than they are worth.

There seems to conflict fairly often about this and it seems to be damaging the gaming experience, so what is the best solution / common ground to this issue?

 

[farscythe]

i play for fun..but am a stickler for rules (as in if the game has rules thats how it should be played and they will be followed grrr)
but yea for me that does translate to i'll point out what they did wrong and then let them re do it.. hell its a game.. if you get pissed off about it you're doing it wrong.

though in all fairness... i have a daughter... playing games with kids teaches you a lot abbout tolerance (had i still been childfree i may well have been one of those anal twats heh)


i dont think there's a best solution though least not a one person sollution..you can be as easy going as you like but unless the others are too, there will be conflict.

so yes your solution is valium

 

[RJ 17]

For example, we were playing eldritch horror for the first time, and I didn't know that you could not rest on a space with a monster, so I said "I will move and then rest", they reminded me that I cannot do that so I said "oh, ok, well instead I will rest and then move". Of course predictably this caused a tantrum since apparently I was "taking back"

What's really funny about this scenario is that the iron-clad rules guy refused to allow you to execute an illegal action on your turn (moving to a monster square then resting)...which by default means that you have to come up with a different action to perform on your turn. So he was upset about declaring something that went against the rules, but then didn't want to let you do something that wasn't against the rules. Seems like he can't really make up his mind.

In general, though, it boils down to personality types. There's always going to be people out there who absolutely flip out about rules. Personally I believe that games should be played by the rules, but that doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it. Someone makes a mistake? Just say "you can't do that", they do something else within the confines of the rules, and everyone moves on with their lives.

The common ground - if there's any to be found - is to play by "House Rules". For instance, in Monopoly, Free Parking is - according to the official rules - supposed to be nothing but a free square. However a lot of people like to play with the "House Rules" that there's a jackpot of money in the middle of the board and if you land on Free Parking you get it. Some people even play that if you land directly on "Go" you get $400 rather than $200.

Of course even House Rules ruffle people's feathers sometimes, which goes back to what I originally said about it all boiling down to personality types. Some people are just dicks.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well ideally you find a group that agrees to come down on one side, and if you know someone will be pissy establish modified house rules that you then do stick to.

Because it's neither fun for someone to cheat you out of a victory by bending the rules at their leisure nor is it fun when someone bashes you over the head with a rule book you just didn't know about, so make sure everyone understand beforehand how the game will be played and if someone isn't happy they can sit it out.

 

[Maximum Bert]

I used to be a stickler for the rules when I played warhammer I knew them pretty well to which caused some upsets especially against people who were supposed to know the rules better than me because it was kinda their job but it was worse against friends particularly one who always tried to bend the rules to his advantage which of course I wouldnt allow but in the end after a few years I just found I didnt care enough ahymore and let him get away with stuff that he technically couldnt do against me not hugely game breaking stuff but he would say things like he hit my model because a tiny fraction of the template covered the base even though over half would have to cover it for it to be hit and if it was around half it was 50/50 a 16th covered does not count as a hit in the rules but whatever.

I must say we had better games after that mainly because we werent aggravating each other as much. Blatant disregard for the rules I cant stand though you may as well not be playing the game at all if you just ignore or bend them past a certain point to what you want unless it is agreed upon first i.e an established house rule.

What you described I would not have a problem with even when I was less prone to let it be hell I have even let people take back cards or slightly rewind their turn in Magic tourneys because they forgot an upkeep or played something in the wrong order it cost me the match on a couple of occasions and money but I dont care much tbh if it was the top 4 I must admit I probably wouldnt be as leniant. Some people are just massive dicks though I let one guy go back to his upkeep so he could pay for his creature and not lose it later on I forgot to do the same with a copy of the same critter in my deck he wouldnt let me go back and save it and then he boasted when he won damn that guy was a clown.

 

[Reiper]

What's really funny about this scenario is that the iron-clad rules guy refused to allow you to execute an illegal action on your turn (moving to a monster square then resting)...which by default means that you have to come up with a different action to perform on your turn. So he was upset about declaring something that went against the rules, but then didn't want to let you do something that wasn't against the rules. Seems like he can't really make up his mind.

I think he wanted me to move to the monster space, because I said my first action was to move, and then pick another action or do no action at all and be stuck on the monster space.

It was quite frustrating, because then for the rest of the night he was sulky and in a bad mood (ie we played the game of thrones board game and he didn't try to win and just made baratheon win to spite me.) So really, it feels like it makes playing these games no fun when people act like that.

The common ground - if there's any to be found - is to play by "House Rules". For instance, in Monopoly, Free Parking is - according to the official rules - supposed to be nothing but a free square. However a lot of people like to play with the "House Rules" that there's a jackpot of money in the middle of the board and if you land on Free Parking you get it. Some people even play that if you land directly on "Go" you get $400 rather than $200.

Of course even House Rules ruffle people's feathers sometimes, which goes back to what I originally said about it all boiling down to personality types. Some people are just dicks.

Thats the problem too, whenever I suggest house rules he always instantly "vetoes" it by saying he won't play if they are used. Like in king of tokyo most of us agreed the parasitic tentacle card was super imbalanced, but he refused to play without it.

 

[spartan231490]

So my friends and I play board games fairly often, but there seems to be a real divide between the attitudes of the players when it comes to games, and it really seems to be damaging the experience.

I like to play the game for fun, and I am not super strict when it comes to rules. If someone makes a mistake, so long as it is still their turn I will gladly let them take it back so long as it is fairly easy to do (ie moving one piece), especially if we are new at the game or the person just did not understand the rules before they made the move. Another example is games where you are supposed to receive a random faction (ie twilight imperium), I think it is perfectly acceptable for people to choose their factions so people are happy with who they end up with.

On the other hand there seem to be some people who are super anal retentive about rules, and any kind of deviation or take backs makes them get uspset and throw a fit, even in co-op games. For example, we were playing eldritch horror for the first time, and I didn't know that you could not rest on a space with a monster, so I said "I will move and then rest", they reminded me that I cannot do that so I said "oh, ok, well instead I will rest and then move". Of course predictably this caused a tantrum since apparently I was "taking back" even though I had not even touched my piece yet. For the rest of the night the guy who got upset was sulking and wouldn't even talk to me, so it seems that these boardgames are causing much more trouble than they are worth.

There seems to conflict fairly often about this and it seems to be damaging the gaming experience, so what is the best solution / common ground to this issue?

The rules are there to ensure fun for everyone playing. Even if it means you make a stupid move, it's better for the experience in the long run.

 

[zerragonoss]

What takes bakes have something to do with fallowing the rules, that logic never even occurred to me they seem like two totally different things. Heck look at magic their nothing in the official rule book about when an action becomes an offical action and what to do when an illegal action happens that's all in tournament rules and judging guides. Their is a major difference in my mind to the rules around that game, which is basically social etiquette, and rules within a game. That is a illegal action is enforcing a rule within a game how you respond after that is about the rules outside of it.

 

[Ratty]

It's similar to how some people don't like to cheat at video games and some do. "Rules Lawyers" like that guy who sulked all night, may be the equivalent to "hardcore gamers" who want the sense of satisfaction from beating a system. Usually though most people at a tabletop game will just be using the game as an excuse to hang out with their friends, eat pizza and drink beer. I've never seen a good way to deal with problem players, the best you can do is let them know that they're spoiling everyone else's fun.

Spoiler

Even spoony doesn't know what to do with problem players D:

 

[Callate]

It's a game. Games are supposed to be fun.

It's one thing to have someone breaking the rules to assure their advantage or victory, i.e. cheating. It's quite another to refuse to let someone change their move when they made an illegal choice in ignorance. God forbid someone make an improper move and no one notices it for five turns; it sounds like your friend would have a conniption.

I would be tempted to point out to the person in question that even tournament chess doesn't consider a move made until the player's hand is off the piece. If they consider a game of Eldritch Horror among friends to require a standard higher than that of international championships with hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line, that might signify that they have a problem.

(And Eldritch Horror is a cooperative game, no less, n'est-ce pas?... Jumping jimminy.)

Bottom line to me is that if there's a question about the rules, a majority ruling should count unless and until there's a more official clarification. Allowing a player to take back an illegal move would probably fall under such a thing... But I would personally be inclined to exclude someone from my gaming who was prone to being that obnoxious about a simple misunderstanding.

 

[DEAD34345]

I'd say they're actually two different categories, because I hate breaking game rules under pretty much any circumstances, but I'm always playing only for fun. If rules are broken (even in an extremely minor way) I'll probably say something about it, but I don't think I've ever gotten genuinely angry over a boardgame or multiplayer video game in my life.

 

[Radeonx]

I don't really care, unless myself and my friends are playing for money or something. Otherwise, it is just for fun, so tweaking the rules to accommodate everyone doesn't really mean anything to me.

 

[mezorin]

Not sure how to answer this, but I'll give some reasonable examples of what's NOT fun:

Guy 1- The Hypocrite. This is a guy I used to LARP with and he was a horrible human being in all regards. Being trained in other martial arts weapons (namely traditional Jujitsu), my instinct was to always pull punches on hits in weapons practice. The Hipocrite did not want to count hits he deemed 'too light', but were otherwise solid. Well, when he got hit "the way its supposed to be done" and later accidently tapped in the head once (not even a full on hit) he went pure rage mode. Moral of the story: always pull your hits, always count light but clean hits against you in good sport, and don't play with this guy. Note that this guy was also a jackass in general, and I could write a book on this topic along with a case psychology study in nerd douchebaggery, but needless to say I don't hang around with this friend of a friend anymore than I want to lick the moss at Cherenobyl.

Guy 2- The Clownboat. This guy is trollface personified, and takes nothing even remotely seriously. This is the guy who will button mash Soul Calibur, broke Wii tennis by making his little Mii swing 10 times a second, and generally smart ass breaks any system/game he gets in. If World War 3 breaks out and we get drafted, I *do not* want to be standing next to this guy in Army boot camp, as he WILL say something smart when the Corporal asks "WHAT IS SO FUNNY?!". Or he'll prank people on the firing range. Or show up to PT dressed in a ballerina uniform. It is physically impossible for this guy not to be a smart ass, as he is a straight up real world Bugs Bunny. While gaming is supposed to be fun and all, its annoying when you got a guy spinning his arms around like an idiot instead of covering your firing lane or trying to get things done. Suspension of disbelief also dies a lulzy death with this dude around, and I thank God I have never had the misfortune of having to DM a Pathfinder game for this guy.

Guy 3- The Rules ACTIVIST Lawyer. "No, you're out of order! The whole system is out of order!" is *not* what you want to hear every five turns playing Pathfinder. This guy is always disputing the DM, always bitching and moaning about the D&D rules or that the DM does not know what she's doing, and always dragging games out for hours. The plot sucks, the rules suck, and he's here to change the world by kvetching about it and holding up the game! This guy somehow drags Pathfinder into never ending bullet time rather than just going with it, and the reason I'm glad I own a DS. We all know this guy or have known this guy, and this is the one who does not get invited back, for good reasons. Added bonus: this guy is the text book definition of a scrub, and will not use any tactic which is 'cheap' and just simply ***** about it in computer games. Avoid at all costs if playing League of Legends.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

In our group, we allow take backs for the first few rounds of a game, because it may have been a while an people forget some rules. Not later in game though, because if you make a mistake, and get to take it back, it could annoy another player that it ends up benefiting.

If it's our first time playing, we allow take backs the whole way through because we're learning.

But the rules exist to make a game fair and balanced, so we do our best to stick to them.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I don't have board game or table-top RPG friends and envy all of you who do...Though I did have some Cards Against Humanity friends but the thing about that game is, playing by the rules is still HELLA fun. The variation between our rules and another set of rules I've seen however is that we used a sort of 'winner reads the black card' rule instead of having people read black cards in a clock or anti-clockwise sort of manner...

...Also as a kid, nobody negotiated or used auction house rules. Like...ever...I didn't even know that kind of rule was a thing until I played the Game Boy version of Monopoly.

 

[balladbird]

For me, I reconcile the two because the rules are what makes it fun for me. Even as a child I'd always get bothered when we'd play a game like "monopoly" or "risk" and the other characters would just start goofing off and having fun. It ruined the game for me, because I enjoyed the structure.

As an adult, I've come to lean the other way, a little bit. I play a lot of tabletop games, and when I DM, I tend to prioritize keeping the players invested in the story and having fun over following the rules precisely. Min-maxing and lawyering are fine when you play solo or online, but with a group sitting around a table, it's important to enjoy the social aspects of the game.

 

[RJ 17]

What's really funny about this scenario is that the iron-clad rules guy refused to allow you to execute an illegal action on your turn (moving to a monster square then resting)...which by default means that you have to come up with a different action to perform on your turn. So he was upset about declaring something that went against the rules, but then didn't want to let you do something that wasn't against the rules. Seems like he can't really make up his mind.

I think he wanted me to move to the monster space, because I said my first action was to move, and then pick another action or do no action at all and be stuck on the monster space.

It was quite frustrating, because then for the rest of the night he was sulky and in a bad mood (ie we played the game of thrones board game and he didn't try to win and just made baratheon win to spite me.) So really, it feels like it makes playing these games no fun when people act like that.

The common ground - if there's any to be found - is to play by "House Rules". For instance, in Monopoly, Free Parking is - according to the official rules - supposed to be nothing but a free square. However a lot of people like to play with the "House Rules" that there's a jackpot of money in the middle of the board and if you land on Free Parking you get it. Some people even play that if you land directly on "Go" you get $400 rather than $200.

Of course even House Rules ruffle people's feathers sometimes, which goes back to what I originally said about it all boiling down to personality types. Some people are just dicks.

Thats the problem too, whenever I suggest house rules he always instantly "vetoes" it by saying he won't play if they are used. Like in king of tokyo most of us agreed the parasitic tentacle card was super imbalanced, but he refused to play without it.

Sounds like the solution to the problem is "Guess you're not playing this one, then." If everyone else can agree on something and he's the single stick-in-the-mud, then I do have to ask why you play with him in the first place. If he doesn't want to play by the rules that everyone else can agree with, then he should be more than welcome to not play in the first place.

 

[Johnny Impact]

I can handle playing for fun, following rules to the letter, or middle ground. What I don't care for is people who lie or bend/ignore rules.

I had a friend who liked to win at Magic. When I say he liked to win, what I mean is if he lost or thought he was going to lose he would tell you some ability on your side of the board didn't work like you thought, or had been errata'd out of existence, or whatever he thought he had to say to make you lose. Instead of calling him on it, I printed the full "lawyer version" of the rules, plus full current errata for every card I used. Every time he made a claim during one of our games, I'd say, "Really? I don't recall it working that way. Just a moment...." and pull out the resulting sheaf. When he realized his cockmunchery was over, he stopped playing me. The part I don't understand is he was a good player. He won more games against me than he lost. A good record wasn't enough; he didn't want to play unless he could win every time.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Establish rules at the beginning, whether they're official or modified, and stick to them. If everyone agrees, deviate if you want on a case by case basis. If it affects the course of the game, fair enough people want the rules to apply all the time instead of be suspended in one case and not in another, but if it's a comfortability/inconsequential thing like choosing preferred factions then maybe best not to be a twat about it.

I don't play a lot of board/card games and when I do it's mostly with my smaller cousins or my family, so some bullshit is naturally going to be included, and tolerated. But I do remember watching a game of Yugioh my friend played when I was little, he was up against someone who had put some bullshit dragon-summoning combo at the top of the deck so he could beat everyone within 3 turns or so, so I realised and made them restart having shuffled each other's decks. That guy was an asshole in all other aspects as well in case you were wondering.