How Far are you willing to forgive?

[Mcupobob]

I often see people getting angry over high profile crimes. Ones that make it to the news at least. Its easy to get angry at someone causing harm and write them off as just scum. Do we know this people what lead to their life of crime? It could have been a psychological, chemical imbalance, or ect ect. Sure we can't simple forgive every one and let them run around consequence free, but at what point does justice for a crime crosses into territory of revenge? When do morals and values stop being used to uphold the most morally efficient system one where as few people suffer and where most people prosper, and starts becoming a tool to inflict harm for favor of one party over another? Would learning and reinforcing forgiveness and understanding, and treating people with empathy, human outreach, and rehabilitation be a better world, or is punishment and social detachment sometimes the only way?

I've been thinking about stuff like this a lot lately, and would like to see some of the escapist opinions? How far are you will to forgive someone? This goes for all crimes and for people with different moral views(Such as would a vegetarian forgive a meat eater, pro life or pro choice or the death penalty. Just examples of different moral views.)

EDIT: Or tolerate.
EDIT: Revised some of the examples.

 

[Eldarion]

and for people with different moral views(Such as would a vegetarian forgive a meat eater, or anti-gay vs gay rights or pro life or pro choice. Just examples of different moral views.)

Anti gay vs gay rights is NOT "Just an example of different moral views", one is gay people wanting to be treated like human beings and the other is a massive bigot.

Also, some context for your question would help. Like a hypothetical of some sort.

You probably just saw the latest Big picture episode didn't you?

 

[Mcupobob]

and for people with different moral views(Such as would a vegetarian forgive a meat eater, or anti-gay vs gay rights or pro life or pro choice. Just examples of different moral views.)

Anti gay vs gay rights is NOT "Just an example of different moral views", one is gay people wanting to be treated like human beings and the other is a massive bigot.

Also, some context for your question would help. Like a hypothetical of some sort.

You probably just saw the latest Big picture episode didn't you?

I've should have explain the anti-gay thing better. Mores along the side of someone who thinks they shouldn't get married but have no problem with partnership signing or something. The right of a religion tradition vs the right to use a word. That kind of jazz. People who try and harm someone due to sexually orientation/race/religion with whatever means are defiantly crossing line most people agree is not right. the threads not about which opinion is right though.

Yes I did see the new Big picture episode and it finally got me around to writing about my ideas. The best examples I can give or in the case of Vicks, murders, and child abusers. Can you forgive any of this kinds of people or try to understand why the did the things they did? How far should the law go as to dealing with these kinds of things? How far should people go as to viewing criminals and people

 

[Gennadios]

It really boils down to the social value of an individual.

In california there was a gangster that killed 3 people in a robbery in the 70's. He refuses to apologize for the act, but he dedicated his prison life to mentoring youth at risk of turning to gang culture. He's been denied parole for the past decade simply because he refuses to admit remorse, but I'd argue that he serves enough of a social value to be worth setting free.

On the hand people like the Washing DC sniper or that schizophrenic kid that shot 9 people in Arizona? There's no way in hell they'll ever be safe to let loose on society. I'd much rather they get put down so my taxes don't go to keeping them alive.

 

[Count Igor]

Pretty much anything.
Yup.

 

[Eldarion]

and for people with different moral views(Such as would a vegetarian forgive a meat eater, or anti-gay vs gay rights or pro life or pro choice. Just examples of different moral views.)

Anti gay vs gay rights is NOT "Just an example of different moral views", one is gay people wanting to be treated like human beings and the other is a massive bigot.

Also, some context for your question would help. Like a hypothetical of some sort.

You probably just saw the latest Big picture episode didn't you?

I've should have explain the anti-gay thing better. Mores along the side of someone who thinks they shouldn't get married but have no problem with partnership signing or something. The right of a religion tradition vs the right to use a word. That kind of jazz. People who try and harm someone due to sexually orientation/race/religion with whatever means are defiantly crossing line most people agree is not right. the threads not about which opinion is right though.

Yes I did see the new Big picture episode and it finally got me around to writing about my ideas. The best examples I can give or in the case of Vicks, murders, and child abusers. Can you forgive any of this kinds of people or try to understand why the did the things they did? How far should the law go as to dealing with these kinds of things? How far should people go as to viewing criminals and people

Marriage isn't a "religious tradition" there have been secular marriages since the concept was invented. The church has NO RIGHT deciding laws that restrict everybody's rights. If they don't want Christians marrying same sex partners then whoop-de-do, but they don't get to decide that for everyone. But then, the church has way to much power in our government to begin with.

The way I see it, same sex couples getting married would harm NOBODY so it should be allowed. Basically Christians want it to be illegal for people other than them to be happy.

 

[Mcupobob]

and for people with different moral views(Such as would a vegetarian forgive a meat eater, or anti-gay vs gay rights or pro life or pro choice. Just examples of different moral views.)

Anti gay vs gay rights is NOT "Just an example of different moral views", one is gay people wanting to be treated like human beings and the other is a massive bigot.

Also, some context for your question would help. Like a hypothetical of some sort.

You probably just saw the latest Big picture episode didn't you?

I've should have explain the anti-gay thing better. Mores along the side of someone who thinks they shouldn't get married but have no problem with partnership signing or something. The right of a religion tradition vs the right to use a word. That kind of jazz. People who try and harm someone due to sexually orientation/race/religion with whatever means are defiantly crossing line most people agree is not right. the threads not about which opinion is right though.

Yes I did see the new Big picture episode and it finally got me around to writing about my ideas. The best examples I can give or in the case of Vicks, murders, and child abusers. Can you forgive any of this kinds of people or try to understand why the did the things they did? How far should the law go as to dealing with these kinds of things? How far should people go as to viewing criminals and people

Marriage isn't a "religious tradition" there have been secular marriages since the concept was invented. The church has NO RIGHT deciding laws that restrict everybody's rights. If they don't want Christians marrying same sex partners then whoop-de-do, but they don't get to decide that for everyone. But then, the church has way to much power in our government to begin with.

The way I see it, same sex couples getting married would harm NOBODY so it should be allowed. Basically Christians want it to be illegal for people other than them to be happy.

Look I believe the exact same thing consenting adults should marry whoever. Threads not about that though. Could you forgive someone who thinks that gay marriage is wrong? Understand where they come from even if you don't believe in it yourself?

EDIT: We can just drop the whole anti-gay vs gay right example than.

 

[Eldarion]

and for people with different moral views(Such as would a vegetarian forgive a meat eater, or anti-gay vs gay rights or pro life or pro choice. Just examples of different moral views.)

Anti gay vs gay rights is NOT "Just an example of different moral views", one is gay people wanting to be treated like human beings and the other is a massive bigot.

Also, some context for your question would help. Like a hypothetical of some sort.

You probably just saw the latest Big picture episode didn't you?

I've should have explain the anti-gay thing better. Mores along the side of someone who thinks they shouldn't get married but have no problem with partnership signing or something. The right of a religion tradition vs the right to use a word. That kind of jazz. People who try and harm someone due to sexually orientation/race/religion with whatever means are defiantly crossing line most people agree is not right. the threads not about which opinion is right though.

Yes I did see the new Big picture episode and it finally got me around to writing about my ideas. The best examples I can give or in the case of Vicks, murders, and child abusers. Can you forgive any of this kinds of people or try to understand why the did the things they did? How far should the law go as to dealing with these kinds of things? How far should people go as to viewing criminals and people

Marriage isn't a "religious tradition" there have been secular marriages since the concept was invented. The church has NO RIGHT deciding laws that restrict everybody's rights. If they don't want Christians marrying same sex partners then whoop-de-do, but they don't get to decide that for everyone. But then, the church has way to much power in our government to begin with.

The way I see it, same sex couples getting married would harm NOBODY so it should be allowed. Basically Christians want it to be illegal for people other than them to be happy.

Look I believe the exact same thing consenting adults should marry whoever. Threads not about that though. Could you forgive someone who thinks that gay marriage is wrong? Understand where they come from even if you don't believe in it yourself?

Ok fine, I'm not turning the thread into a debate.

As for your question. Could I forgive these people who vote to keep us from being happy for no other reason than the fact that our way of life disagrees with theirs? Can I forgive the fact that same sex relationships are only at odds with their religion if you take one line in the bible out of context? Meaning that they are just using their religion as a flimsy pretext to spread their ignorant hate filled message?

To be honest, no I don't think I can.

 

[ultrachicken]

I've never had my will to forgive tested very thoroughly, though I'd like to think I can forgive anything. However, that doesn't mean I'm against life sentences, as some people are just too dangerous to keep around, regardless of whether or not I hate them.

 

[ultrachicken]

and for people with different moral views(Such as would a vegetarian forgive a meat eater, or anti-gay vs gay rights or pro life or pro choice. Just examples of different moral views.)

Anti gay vs gay rights is NOT "Just an example of different moral views", one is gay people wanting to be treated like human beings and the other is a massive bigot.

Also, some context for your question would help. Like a hypothetical of some sort.

You probably just saw the latest Big picture episode didn't you?

I've should have explain the anti-gay thing better. Mores along the side of someone who thinks they shouldn't get married but have no problem with partnership signing or something. The right of a religion tradition vs the right to use a word. That kind of jazz. People who try and harm someone due to sexually orientation/race/religion with whatever means are defiantly crossing line most people agree is not right. the threads not about which opinion is right though.

Yes I did see the new Big picture episode and it finally got me around to writing about my ideas. The best examples I can give or in the case of Vicks, murders, and child abusers. Can you forgive any of this kinds of people or try to understand why the did the things they did? How far should the law go as to dealing with these kinds of things? How far should people go as to viewing criminals and people

Marriage isn't a "religious tradition" there have been secular marriages since the concept was invented. The church has NO RIGHT deciding laws that restrict everybody's rights. If they don't want Christians marrying same sex partners then whoop-de-do, but they don't get to decide that for everyone. But then, the church has way to much power in our government to begin with.

The way I see it, same sex couples getting married would harm NOBODY so it should be allowed. Basically Christians want it to be illegal for people other than them to be happy.

Look I believe the exact same thing consenting adults should marry whoever. Threads not about that though. Could you forgive someone who thinks that gay marriage is wrong? Understand where they come from even if you don't believe in it yourself?

Ok fine, I'm not turning the thread into a debate.

As for your question. Could I forgive these people who vote to keep us from being happy for no other reason than the fact that our way of life disagrees with theirs? Can I forgive the fact that same sex relationships are only at odds with their religion if you take one line in the bible out of context? Meaning that they are just using their religion as a flimsy pretext to spread their ignorant hate filled message?

To be honest, no I don't think I can.

... Why not turn the thread into a debate? Threads are for discussion.

 

[Biosophilogical]

Pretty much anything.
Yup.

This. Though when I am not affected by something, I don't feel it is my place to either hold a grudge or forgive (because there is nothing that I have the right to forgive). However, I'll try and stop you hurting others in future, but that isn't a matter of forgiveness, it's a case of me weighing my values and you coming out on the bottom.

 

[Eldarion]

... Why not turn the thread into a debate? Threads are for discussion.

I agree, but I try to keep to the topic.

 

[Nouw]

If you killed someone and later regret it, in my mindset you don't deserve such a harsh punishment if you hadn't regretted doing it. Failing that, being forgiven in some manner. With my Buddhist beliefs, the killing karma isn't completed with regret.

Just my 2-cents on killing, not too sure on anything else.

 

[Sarge034]

Would learning and reinforcing forgiveness and understanding, and treating people with empathy, human outreach, and rehabilitation be a better world,

Sometimes

or is punishment and social detachment sometimes the only way?

Sometimes

I've been thinking about stuff like this a lot lately, and would like to see some of the escapist opinions? How far are you will to forgive someone? This goes for all crimes and for people with different moral views(Such as would a vegetarian forgive a meat eater, pro life or pro choice or the death penalty. Just examples of different moral views.)

I will forgive if it is something small like shoplifting a candy bar and getting caught so you say sorry. Anything larger then that must have the proper amount of reparations before I forgive them. Also I NEVER forgive rapists, pedophiles, or murders. I am also for the death penalty, just FYI.

 

[Sacman]

I forgive nothing... but I'm too apathetic to do anything about it...<.<

 

[kurupt87]

Forgiveness isn't always good you know. Being forgiven for something is essentially the same as being told that it was no big deal. Not cool for some things, seriously not cool.

 

[Voration]

I can't forgive people who have tortured before murdering people or animals. In some ways I'd be more likely to forgive a murderer who killed his/her victims quickly and painlessly over a rapist who let their victim live. Yes I know that lives can't be brought back so thats worse than a rapist who doen't kill the victim, but who is the kinder criminal?

I can't forgive people who torture their victims, whether they kill them or not its the worst thing to do :/ (I'm thinking of multiple videos I've seen online, usually of animals, where they are set on fire or killed in other horrific ways)

 

[Triskadancer]

You can understand and empathize with someone without forgiving their actions.

Let's take a fictional example. I have a character in a story I am working on called Dodge. She is a completely unapologetic criminal. She has committed countless acts of theft and murder. In some cases she has tortured her victims before killing them. She has a Stockholm Syndrome 'sidekick' and lover whom she regularly physically abuses. She does all of this with a maniacal grin- she takes quite a bit of joy in her 'work.' Basically, she's a horrible person. However, Dodge's mother was extremely abusive, and caused extreme psychological damage. All of Dodge's terrible compulsions stem from her childhood traumas. She lived an absolutely horrible life- right up until the moment she snapped.

As an author my goal was to cause the reader to empathize with this killer, but that doesn't mean Dodge is any less monstrous. She's done horrible things with absolutely no remorse. True, she's quite insane, but she can still recognize right from wrong. She made the choice to react and lash out with violence.

TL;DR: You choose how you react to things in your life (except in extreme cases, such as being mentally unable to recognize what you're doing, etc). Some atrocities are committed for absolutely understandable reasons; that doesn't make them any less horrible. People are responsible for their actions no matter what the 'true cause' of those actions are.

Obviously this is only for the "big stuff," like murder, rape, torture... petty crimes like shoplifting are much easier to forgive, as the only damage is financial. It's still wrong, but money can be returned. A life or a mind is impossible to replace.

 

[Gurk]

I could never forgive a murderer or rapist.
The amount of torture they put the families of victims through is horrendous and they should never be forgiven for what they did.

If they were charged with manslaughter, I could probably forgive them given the circumstances i.e drink driving.

Petty crimes, yeah I can forgive that.