How is 2011 can we have these toys for girls?

[Disgruntled_peasant]

There are countless studies about this and papers about it, we normalise the idea that girls are passive and do housework, and boys and active and do adventurous aspiring fun things from a very young age, and most people accept that so they pass it onto their children
"girls LIKE playing with cooking and dolls, what are you on about?" people will say, but at the end of the day, kids will play with anything so long as its encouraged and seen as 'normal' behaviour (or deviant behaviour, as they get older and that rebellious streak kicks in).

Plenty of people will say "i played with a doll/action man/whatever when i was a kid, and im not a stereotype" and thats can be perfectly true, playing with a doll does not mean you are destined to be obsessed with kids, but it helps the odds. just like living through a traumatic war-time experience doesnt mean you will definately have some kind of ptsd, but it helps the odds.


Girls dont enjoy playing with dolls and cooking toys because having female genetalia somehow magically makes them like that kinda thing, they do so because everything around them tells them they should, even if the parent themselves treats them gender neutral then you still have peers, school, tv, general media, religeon and much more to contend with. its a wider issue than just toys.

 

[zHellas]

I saw the typical fanfare(barbies,Baby doll and cooking toy etc.) When i saw a line of "Her first" toys. What i saw appalled me. "Her first Vacuum cleaner","Her first washer and dryer" and "her first refrigerator" all of them functional item from what i could see.

Well, my guess is that the toys are simple (i.e.: Open door, put shit in, close door), and the fact that the toys are actually functional at being washers & dryers, fridges, etc. are awesome in and of itself.

 

[rokkolpo]

Toys.
Made by men for girls for future men!

As long as they like it.
As a kid I played with lego's and Barbie's alike.

And I still feel like building stuff and undressing women.
So it all worked out!

 

[hotsauceman]

A question for people.

Did anyone else, when they were quite young, want a particularly toy aimed at the other gender but never had it because it wasn?t for them, maybe there was even a sense of embarrassment there? It happened with me; my parents even offered to buy me one because they knew I liked them, I said no even though if someone else owned it I was all too happy and not the least embarrassed to play with it.

Wow. Yeah. I remember back when i did that report i mentioned that a Women that i was is the same class as me Saw a mother deny her daughter a batman doll while buying her a doll house on a payment plan or something like that. And im going into really bad territory her but im going to say it. Its demeaning for Men in our society to act like women. Why do you thinkg "Gay" is a big insult. Because in our Media society women are often(not always) seen as submissive to men. Take for example "The damsel in distress" scenario. If the man is in trouble and he cant get himself out of it it is the ultimate insult.

 

[StBishop]

The only issue here (for me) the the "Her" part in Her First.

If you made it "Baby's First" or "My First" it wouldn't be an issue.

As a kid I'd have loved on of those stupid ovens because I always loved helping to bake shit, but I also loved Action Man (Like GI Joe but for Brits, Aussies, and Kiwi's) and cap guns.

If you make it gender neutral there's no problem with having vacuum cleaners, ovens, hair driers (I think it's fine to market hair driers exclusively to girls), and other domestic articles available to kids in toy form.

 

[lettucethesallad]

I'd say the "Her First" part is the issue; but then that's not something the kids pick up on.

But, y'know, kids like playing with that stuff. Little girls especially. So... they're gonna sell it. I don't think me playing with Action Men (and definitely not any Barbies when I was 3... ahem) or toy guns reinforced anything particularly.

Well yeah, kids play with the stuff, but they play with what they're given based on what they see. They imitate behavior, and hey, if mom's doing all the cooking, guess what kind of signals that sends to a small girl? Also, with such rigid gender roles and stereotypes, well-meaning friends and family will buy stereotypically 'gender appropriate' toys for a child probably 9 times out of 10 unless specifically told not to.

Kids are treated differently based on their gender all the time. A little boy falls and scrapes his knee: "Daddy's little He-man! Up you go, run along." A little girl falls and scrapes her knee: "Oh honey! Are you alright? You have to be careful and look where you're going!" There are also studies that show if a male infant is yelling, people are more likely to say he's angry, while if a female infant is yelling, the interpretation is that she's sad.

As a little girl, I can't remember ever playing with dolls or things similar to the "Her first" series. I'd go out and climb trees or play with cars. Why? Because my parents tried their best to not influence me or my siblings any which way based on our gender. We got to pick what we wanted to play with ourselves, which in the end I'm really grateful for.

 

[Arehexes]

Does it really matter if it's cleaning, you know whats scary? The baby dolls you pretend to breastfeed.

 

[Gigano]

Because there are parents willing to buy them.

Fix that, and such toys will go away (or be marketed to small boys too). Treating a symptom is pointless.

 

[MassiveGeek]

Bah, don't worry, in a little while the My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic merchandise will come out and take over the fucking world.

 

[spartan231490]

Kinda proving my point. Women aren't the only one who face discrimination and difficulties because of their gender. There is a double standard, and it doesn't always work in favor of men. Men don't "have it made," we have difficulties because of our gender too.

And what diffculty may that me? Men being Men so to speak get alot farther in this world and alot more admiration then Women who are Women. When men are aggressive(something valued in men and sports) in the work place(in terms of sales not physically aggresive) It get them ahead. Our business model in today's world is models for the Male to succeed. Not women. Atleast that my view.

What do you think about a male nurse, or a male receptionist? I imagine it's not something very flattering, not your first thought.

Men are expected to be these big manly-men who will tear off your head if you look at them funny, but they are also expected to be the kind compassionate type who listens and sympathizes with everyone's problems, and a few others.

Men have problems being accepted by others when they choose certain professions. What is the first thing someone thinks of when they hear a woman wants to become an elementary school teacher? What is the first thing people think when they hear that a man wants to become an elementary school teacher? They're a bit different, and not flattering to the male. What do people think when a woman chooses to be a stay at home mom? What do people think when a man chooses to be a stay at home dad? Once again, very different things, and it's not very flattering to the man. There are many more examples.

What's your very first thought when you hear that a married couple are getting a divorce? What's your very first thought when you hear that any couple is breaking up, or even just having problems? For most people, they think it's the man's fault. What's the first thing you think of when you hear about the "friend zone?" I bet you don't expect that it's a girl who has feelings for a male friend.

Yes, men have an advantage in business. but an advantage in business doesn't mean an absolute advantage in everything.

EDIT: Go check out the thread: It's only sexist when men do it? Watch the video. It raises more points about this topic.

 

[Scarim Coral]

May I ask how old your nephew and niece are going to be just to get the better idea if it's appropriate?
Last time I've check children like to play "family" or make believe that they are a functioning family so products like that help with their imagination. (Although that was many years ago)
Also yes I can get what you're saying but don't forget that children do "grow" up. My cousin (a girl) did used to have stuff like that and a make up cabinet etc for her looks. As of right now (an adult) she is a business woman in a degree in finances and she is sure alot more successful than I am (unemployed). So overall I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[hotsauceman]

Snip

I dot agree in certain social and jobs men do have some problems. But why is it demeaning for men to be a nurse? I ask you that question and dwell on it for a bit.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

The toy industry is run by a lot of very conservative old people and they've invested billions of dollars in maintaining socially-constructed gender segregation from a very young age. Most of our ideas about what little boys and little girls inherently "just like" are actually the product of how ubiquitous and long-lasting their influence has been in our society, reinforcing as it does the now-outdated gender roles that we remain just a little too comfortable with. The main reason little girls like those things and little boys don't is that our society teaches them to act that way from the moment they're born. I thought everyone already knew this stuff.

To give a personal anecdote in support of my statement: I'm medically unable to notice or interpret most social cues, and as a result I had no idea that there were toys I "shouldn't" be playing with as a child. I played with a lot of toys aimed at girls and was socially ostracized as a result. Eventually, this pressure forced me to play only with toys intended for boys. Neuro-typical children go through the same process, it just happens much sooner and faster because they can read cues telling them what they're "supposed" to be playing with before they actually start doing so.

 

[JaredXE]

I'm ok with this. I think the feminist backlash against "gender stereotypes" have caused many of the current generation of young women to be complete idiots who can't cook or clean. Seriously, try finding a woman under 25 who can cook. And I don't mean heat up in microwave. They are a rarity, same with ones who have little experience with laundry or cleaning. I'm not saying only girls should be learning this stuff, but I think excluding girls because "it reinforces gender roles" if retarded.

Yay for girly toys. Girls like playing with them!

 

[4173]

Ok. So i was killing time looking at the toy section at K-mart trying to think of what to get my nieces and nephews for there upcoming birthdays. I was in the girls section. I saw the typical fanfare(barbies,Baby doll and cooking toy etc.) When i saw a line of "Her first" toys. What i saw appalled me. "Her first Vacuum cleaner","Her first washer and dryer" and "her first refrigerator" all of them functional item from what i could see. I was just there speechless trying to process who came up with these idea and who would buy them for there daughters. I wrote in a paper awhile back about how toys are used to prepare kid for what is expected of them. And this just seems to prepare little girls for housework.

Your outrage is overblown. Housework WILL be a part of what girls do. Don't you do housework?

I'm glad you wrote a paper, but do you HAVE a daughter?

I've bought my daughter more "boy" toys (blocks, cars, play tools, etc) than "girlie" stuff, but I've been surprised at how much more she immediately locks on to the "girlie" stuff. I kind of chuckled when someone bought my daughter a tea set for her 2nd birthday, but somehow she knew what to do with it and it became one of her favorite toys. I'm contantly being asked to play tea. She also loved the play kitchen set she got. She doesn't have a toy vacuum, but she does frequently grab our mop or broom, declare "mess!" and start pushing the broom/mop around. *shrugs* I suspect she is just emulating what she sees her Mom does throughout the day.

We also deliberately avoided the "pink girly stuff" in decorating her room, buying her clothing, buying her toys (picking for example a CARS version of something over a Disney Princess version), etc. You know what? For a reason I don't understand she goes to the pink coloured toys first in the toystore.

And in any event, your claim that these things "prepare the kids" is like the people who say "if you give boys girlie toys they will turn gay".

Not exactly. Girlie toys turning a child gay would actually change their state of being. The claim isn't that these toys will make girls do housework, but think that they're SUPPOSED to do housework.

But I agree with your larger point. Giving kids all sorts of toys seems to make the most intuitive sense.

 

[aba1]

I think that it has to do with the fact that learning has a lot to do with imitation and little girls, not always girls, want to be like their parents and that means cleaning and cooking.

thats how I always saw it when I was a kid it had less to do with what it was more to do with just pretending and having fun.

 

[0p3rati0n]

Ok. So i was killing time looking at the toy section at K-mart trying to think of what to get my nieces and nephews for there upcoming birthdays. I was in the girls section. I saw the typical fanfare(barbies,Baby doll and cooking toy etc.) When i saw a line of "Her first" toys. What i saw appalled me. "Her first Vacuum cleaner","Her first washer and dryer" and "her first refrigerator" all of them functional item from what i could see. I was just there speechless trying to process who came up with these idea and who would buy them for there daughters. I wrote in a paper awhile back about how toys are used to prepare kid for what is expected of them. And this just seems to prepare little girls for housework.

Just yesterday I was at Walmart. I too was looking for a birthday gift, but for my cousin who turns 5 this weekend. So my mom and I walked through the boys section and I saw a police set that had a helmet, goggles, and a pretty good life-size MP5k. Now typically when I see toy guns they are based off real guns, but they are kind of distorted to look fake. But no! this was a was quite life size. The only way you'd know that it is fake is the fake that it's white. Then there was a M9 Beretta with a silencer and it did a little blowback action when you squeezed the trigger. This pissed me off for two reasons. One is that there are people who complain that violent video games and say that they are making our kids violent. Yet here we are selling quite realistic looking toy guns in stores. If you do a little spray paint job on them they could be taken as a real gun. The second reason this pissed me off is that I'm shocked that toy companies think it's ok to make this stuff. Now I know toy companies have been making toy guns that realistic ever since the 50's, but this is just ridiculous.

 

[Erana]

...So? The name is stupid I guess, but little girls LIKE that stuff.What you play with as a little kid doesn't necessarily reflect who you'll be twenty years from then.

Girls like to play with toy vacuum cleaners? Heck, just let them use the real thing, that way they can be a little more productive.

But seriously, do you believe little girls truly like to play with toy household appliances? or is there perhaps a certain amount of social conditioning to make girls want to do these kinds of things?

Just a thought.

I'll admit that nowadays, I do really wish I had a nice, five-eye gas stove, a new cuisinart, and other nice kitchen appliances...
But housework? Meh. I despise it and if I wind up with a man who doesn't feel like he should have to help around the house, I'm kicking his lazy ass out. Because I'm totally getting the house in my name to protect my kids. Though hopefully between us we'd have enough money for a maid...
Sorry, ranting.

But when I was a child, I didn't like Barbies or baby dolls. Lions, dinosaurs, and giant robots were where its at!
And then I very easily became a gamer.

Perhaps we would have more girl gamers if their pre-gaming-age toys were more like what you'd find in games?

I'm ok with this. I think the feminist backlash against "gender stereotypes" have caused many of the current generation of young women to be complete idiots who can't cook or clean. Seriously, try finding a woman under 25 who can cook. And I don't mean heat up in microwave. They are a rarity, same with ones who have little experience with laundry or cleaning. I'm not saying only girls should be learning this stuff, but I think excluding girls because "it reinforces gender roles" if retarded.

Yay for girly toys. Girls like playing with them!

I was making souffle at 10.
And I know plenty of other perfectly competent young women who can cook, clean, and have all sorts of skills. And I'll take the fact that I went to a women's college and was in with the resident life staff, who knew what the kids were doing as a pretty good sample.

We're not a damn rarity, and for God's sake Your personal experience does not define the state of all women.

I'm so tired of hearing this around here.