How is 9/11 viewed internationally?

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

the reason i have known that we do it that way, is because of the number formatting

(smallest amount of numbers)/(second smallest amount)/(largest-infinite amount)
month/day/year
(1-12)/(1-31)/(1-99999999999999999999999999999999999999999)
also for computer purposes, dating them that way is much much handier when you are going through documents by date.

now i'm not saying that is the CORRECT way, as so many people besides americans seem to dictate, i'm just showing the reason why, at least i was taught, as to why we do that.

I suppose. In filing we just flip it to year/month/day.

I understand that reason, but it still seems less logical than most to least specific time format.

To be honest a better explanation would be if your format was yyyy/mm/dd and you simply used the "if it's this year you don't need to say the year" thing. Much better excuse in my mind.

yeah, which i agree i wish it was y/m/d

honestly though about 99% of the stuff i write/do, the year doesn't matter absolutely at all, so usually i don't include it which would make sense with your last reason (which i do subconsciously, not to make sense really)

 

[JamesStone]

NZ. Not cared about in the slightest. In fact[footnote]Though to be fair this is just from people I have spoken to about it.[/footnote] people find it distasteful that americans still go on and on about it like it was such a big thing. And the whole "They attacked us!" is disgusting.

Simple fact is this, unless you actually lost a family member in the attack then you really need to stfu about it and stop acting as if it had anything to do with you.

Oh and internationally its viewed 11/9. <.<

So because people don't know any of the 3000+ people killed, they shouldn't care and feel bad for those that lost their lives? I find it pretty distasteful that you don't think it wasn't a big deal considering it was a LOT of civilian deaths. Not trying to give you "This is 'Merica!" speech but seriously dude.

A lot of people were affected by it in a lot of emotional ways regardless of knowing any of the victims just like how Pearl Harbor affected the people that were alive when that happened. I'm sure other people feel the same for tragic attacks in their country as well.

On the topic of civilian deaths, this is how it's remembered by plenty of people i know:

Sad for the innocent lives lost... but there's also a lot of fucked up controversy that it comes with.

Many statistics that come up with these numbers, however, do not take into account two things: One, they do not seperate civilian casualities caused by coalition forces and insurgents.

Two: They do not compare or contrast the number of deaths under previous regimes (think millions), the estimated deaths had these regimes stayed in power (think, about the same as if not more than that bar), and the economic boom that has followed since the US invasion (hint: Iraq is quickly becoming a center for economic power in the middle east, already about twice as rich as it was under Saddam, and the same goes for Afghanistan).)

So to me, these statistics are a moot point.

Yeah of course, the situation for everyone all round could have been worse, but you're side-stepping the issue here, which is one about attitudes and viewpoints.

The point is, USA go on and on and on about being victims. Which they were, of course, but disproportionate to the suffering they've inflicted while using the 'victim' thing as an excuse.

What suffering?

I am not side stepping the issue. What I am saying is that the suffering does not outweigh the good that has been created.

Should the US have stayed out of World War II because it would have caused millions more to die? or was the sacrifice of those millions what saved entire races of people and most of the world being dominated by an evil, oppressive force?

It´s completely different. America joined the Allies at World War II because they were attacked, if not, I´m pretty sure they would be happy to be isolated from the whole scenario, profiting from the weapons sales, and waiting for either sides to be weak enough so they could stomp in and look like big heros. What? They did that? Who could have knowned?

The Twin Towers were an excuse to invade a wealthy country (in terms of natural resources that is) and destabilize the entire reason, so that prices could go sky high and they (not America in general, but the big bosses) could profit a big deal from that.
Again, the separation doesn´t really matter, because none of them, coallition or insurgents, would actually kill civilians if the war didn´t started.
And to the economic boom: It was a big one of course, but not to the people in general. Instead, that "economic boom" was a extreme increase of rich men fortunes (especially oil barons) and possibly a decrease of life quality to middle to low class people.
So how can that be better to what they had before? Before, they had a political dictatorship. Bow, they have a economic one, and foreign companies are mining their resources, depleding the land and giving few to their country.

I do not have to time to find the resources to prove to you how wrong they are (not the least of which is that my family actually belongs to these so called "oil barons" you're referring to, and I can tell you that they are [read: I am] definitely NOT profiting from Iraq being opened as a source [hint: they already were a source before the war]).

But never mind that I'm apart of the very people you are slandering, the Iraq War is old news. People act like it is still an active cause when Obama has already stated that by the end of the year, we will have just 20,000 troops there, and for the last year only special operations have taken place with our military personnel. I hate to break to Liberals who are blinded by their disdain for American dominance in the world, but guess what? The wars over, and we won, and I have not heard of a legitiment Iraqi political party or major group proclaim that their lives are NOT better off since we've been there.

So stop complaining about Iraq. History will and already has begun to view it in a positive light.

Now, back to the actual point of all of this: you cannot equate the number of civilian casualities with the amount of "suffering" caused by the war without looking at how these countries are fairing economically since the war when compared to where they were before. Iraq is witnessing an economic boom, with new businesses and corporations supply jobs to people who had none, with women being given equal oppertunities, and genocidal acts being stopped. It's a better place now than it has been for some 50 years.

Well, thank you, after long years one man isn´t profiting from a war that resulted in a massive profit to some guys. You restored my faith in mankind good sir! \sarcasm

Now, to the actual point. The Iraq war is old news, but it´s a good example of my point. They suffered big civilian casualties by a war started to profit, and now even those "new bussines and corporations" you´re refering are giving them hard times as well. Or are you telling me that this companies go there out of the goodness of their hearts, to give jobs where the amount of work they to is equal to the money they recieve?

 

[Vortigar]

The "war on terror" hurt America 10 times more than terrorism ever will.

Funny that a fellow Dutchman would be the first to say this.

I can quote myself on saying:
"The moment Bush declared the war on terror the terrorists won."

Yes nine-eleven (which is what everyone calls it despite the retarded US date format, a seperate discussion entirely) was a despicable thing. But terrorists want you to react, they want you to fear them, they want to make you think they have an impact on your lives while they don't. Apart from the direct effects on people actually involved terrorists have never been able to effect any real change in perception, not on a global scale anyway. Only once. The moment Bush came out with that inane line "if you're not with us you're against us." The moment I heard someone telling me he had said that I had to ask him if he was for real. I could not believe anybody could play that one straight. But he was and they did. The US government did what all the terrorists in the world had never been able to achieve for them. Change the perception of the world. Splice it right down the middle.

Of course the US had to strike back but the hamfisted way in which they did was ridiculous. The Afghanistan operation was good, the right target for the right reasons. Then came Iraq... Was there some kind of dare going on in the White House where one of the advisers thought the rest of the world would step into line no matter what kind of lie they were told? That whole WMD fiasco made the US a laughing stock. They outright made up a reason to attack Saddam and then tried to sweep it under the rug. How? What? Why? Nobody will ever really know but it cost them the rest of their nine-eleven goodwill in one fell swoop.

 

[Snoozer]

personally im indifferent (im an american) its terrible that it happened, but as to the people saying "get the fuck over it" "unless you had family and friends involved, then it shouldnt matter or whatever" thats like saying the only people who should be affected by the olso shooting is the parents of the kids involved

I have to agree, you can't just say that only people affected should care about 9/11, that is wrong and insulting.
It is rather the way the American people react. In Norway people Said that they won't let him win by giving in to hate. Their president said that the only reaction could be for Norway to become more open and democratic, only days after the shooting.
I think this is a proper example of how you should deal terrorism, Norway will get over what happend, I doubt the US ever will.

 

[catalyst8]

So because people don't know any of the 3000+ people killed, they shouldn't care and feel bad for those that lost their lives? I find it pretty distasteful that you don't think it wasn't a big deal considering it was a LOT of civilian deaths. Not trying to give you "This is 'Merica!" speech but seriously dude.

A lot of people were affected by it in a lot of emotional ways regardless of knowing any of the victims just like how Pearl Harbor affected the people that were alive when that happened. I'm sure other people feel the same for tragic attacks in their country as well.

From reading your post you presumably feel quite strongly about the IRA terrorist attacks on England over the past decades. A substantial amount of funding & weapons were supplied to the IRA by various US organizations & individuals. I wonder if you find that suitably distasteful to feel ashamed of it. How do you feel about the attacks in Mumbai, or the recent murders in Oslo? As equally outraged as you do about the 11th September attacks in the US?

It's mystifying why you'd bring up the Second World War. Russia suffered over 20 million casualties; The Battle of Britain had been fought & finished & The Eastern Front opened before the US had been unwillingly dragged into the war; the US used it quite literally as a mercenary excuse to make a huge profit at the expense of the Allies' suffering. These are things which a lot of the Allied countries resent, especially with the ever revisionist Hollywoodland false propaganda.

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

It's terrible that so many people died and that it sparked a war but no-one goes on about what the IRA did and the Americans funded it.

Wait, the Americans FUNDED the IRA? I know a lot of the idiots over there sympathized with them, but actually providing them stuff? Are you kidding me?

 

[Haelium]

It was an insignificant event, the reaction to it was far worse than the event. More Iraqis died on the first night of bombing of the Iraq war.

 

[Shifty]

I grew up in Ireland during the troubles where there was wanton acts of brutality taking place on both sides on a daily basis. At the time terrorism was not the buzz word it is now but it amounts to the same thing.

Personally speaking I think that 9/11 is a travesty and waste of human life.
I have also been to the middle east many times and have seen the anti west propaganda that saturates parts of it but that should be in another thread I think.

I do not agree with the ideology of the terroists who did this and feel sorry for those innocents that are affected by it. Not just those in the aftermath of the collapse, but those that are still being affected by it to this day both in NY and those innocent by standards in the middle east that are caught in the cross fire.

Americas and George Bushes reaction however is something I still do not agree with.

In short..
It was a pointless act carried out by brain washed people that ruined the lives of so many and is still doing so.

 

[alinos]

As an Australian i can quite certainly say i don't give a fuck.

You know what i remember of the day. I woke up a young boy of 12. To find that all my bloody Cartoons weren't on and the TV was covered with pictures of 2 building's on fire.

10 years on i really think you have to stop going on about it.

Yes commemorate it, make it a national holiday if you want. But outside of america we don't really need to know.

The only thing i associate 9/11 with is the day that the terrorist's scared a nation into allowing an incompetent leader to invade another country, based on lies. And we are still dealing with 10 years later.

That's the real tragedy in my mind

 

[Aposthebest]

Personally I would feel sorry for any of the families that the incident took its toll from,but for America as a nation, I wouldn't care any less and the only reason why it could bear any significance here in Greece is because most of the population are being mindlessly sheep-herded by the media.(We had the royal wedding on our tv screens for 3 freakin days,for christ's sake!)

America in my eyes has no right whatsoever to call that a big blow after the atrocities your favourite Uncle Sam has caused all over the world. The list of deaths from America is endless and surely extends to much more than 3000-4000.

Imagine a serial killer who has killed hundreds of victims stand in the middle of a square garden and yell that he was victim of violence due to one of the victims' family member cutting his pinky toe, that's what America and 9/11 is in my eyes by a national prespective.

 

[Cyrax987]

So because people don't know any of the 3000+ people killed, they shouldn't care and feel bad for those that lost their lives? I find it pretty distasteful that you don't think it wasn't a big deal considering it was a LOT of civilian deaths. Not trying to give you "This is 'Merica!" speech but seriously dude.

A lot of people were affected by it in a lot of emotional ways regardless of knowing any of the victims just like how Pearl Harbor affected the people that were alive when that happened. I'm sure other people feel the same for tragic attacks in their country as well.

From reading your post you presumably feel quite strongly about the IRA terrorist attacks on England over the past decades. A substantial amount of funding & weapons were supplied to the IRA by various US organizations & individuals. I wonder if you find that suitably distasteful to feel ashamed of it. How do you feel about the attacks in Mumbai, or the recent murders in Oslo? As equally outraged as you do about the 11th September attacks in the US?

It's mystifying why you'd bring up the Second World War. Russia suffered over 20 million casualties; The Battle of Britain had been fought & finished & The Eastern Front opened before the US had been unwillingly dragged into the war; the US used it quite literally as a mercenary excuse to make a huge profit at the expense of the Allies' suffering. These are things which a lot of the Allied countries resent, especially with the ever revisionist Hollywoodland false propaganda.

I've already covered this in my further posts about other attacks in different countries. I only mentioned Pearl harbor not World War 2 to get my point across. I felt bad for 9/11, tsunami/earthquake in Japan, earthquake in Haiti, Hurricane Katrina, Mumbai terrorist attacks. I don't spout patriot rhetoric to people on these forums or in my real life. I don't even go all out with 9/11 just like how I did my normal thing yesterday on the anniversary.

My only initial complaint is how much hate filled posts are made on these forums every day about how the United States sucks and how we've never done one good thing in our life. We aren't a perfect country by a long shot but we've done some great things just like other countires. Every country has a shady past and to deny that is ridiculous.

 

[AdmiralMemo]

I'm American and I don't see it as big of a deal as it used to be anymore. For the first 5 years, maybe, yeah, it was a big deal. But it's been a decade now...

From any tragedy, three things should happen: mourn, learn, and move on. Mourning should be mostly over with, though, of course, I still support any moments of silence. Learning has happened, though I think the US learned the wrong lesson. It should have taught us to stop messing in the affairs of other countries, but apparently, we got the "You mess with us, and we kick the butts of you and everyone around you for the next decade." message. Third, is the moving on, which we should have done by now. I still like the holiday that we got and remembering the tragedy is fine, but I don't feel that it should disrupt my life anymore.

 

[B4DD]

Personally I would feel sorry for any of the families that the incident took its toll from,but for America as a nation, I wouldn't care any less and the only reason why it could bear any significance here in Greece is because most of the population are being mindlessly sheep-herded by the media.(We had the royal wedding on our tv screens for 3 freakin days,for christ's sake!)

America in my eyes has no right whatsoever to call that a big blow after the atrocities your favourite Uncle Sam has caused all over the world. The list of deaths from America is endless and surely extends to much more than 3000-4000.

Imagine a serial killer who has killed hundreds of victims stand in the middle of a square garden and yell that he was victim of violence due to one of the victims' family member cutting his pinky toe, that's what America and 9/11 is in my eyes by a national prespective.

Ima come at this from a new angle. How exactly is it my responsibility for all the "atrocities" my country commits overseas? Let's forget that I was in the fifth grade when we invaded Iraq. The guys calling the shots over there are not elected by the people of America.

Now lets take your serial killer analogy with my argument as support. Could you blame the families of the victims of the serial killer when they called for the head of the person that killed their loved ones? I sure wouldn't. In my eyes, i was in the third grade when the towers fell, as someone physically unaffected by said events I saw our country as no longer untouchable. I wouldn't go so far as to say I lost my innocence, but damnit I was a little boy an I was afraid. My country could no longer protect me and the old adage "the best defense is a good offense" seemed like our best bet. So please explain to me what I did to commit all these atrocities as a now 18 year old American citizen?

 

[Riobux]

England: Well, typically, no one cares. Although some people do joke about the event occasionally.

 

[Soushi]

torture of people both innocent and guilty (not that it really matters, its wrong always)

I absolutely agree with everything else you said, but I gotta rebut this. Some people deserve to be tortured to insanity and then left to die a slow, agonizing death. Those people are incredibly rare, fortuantely, but they do exist, generally in the form of serial rapists/killers. Some people simply enjoy inflicting suffering and harm on others, and they should be exterminated with great prejudice.

I personally see a few things wrong with that statement.
The first is that torture and killing like that is just revenge, and while revenge seems like a good idea sometimes, if you look at it throughout history, revenge has only ended up with more suffering, more people dead and very few problems actually solved. I mean, look at world war 2, the best example of how revenge fucks everything and everyone up.

The second is that, if we do torture those kinds of people, we would be doing to them what they do to others. It would be letting them teach us how to act. It is the same with the states and 9/11. they have let the terrorists teach them how to act, and in so doing we ALL lose (IE, the world we have now).

 

[geier]

I remember i sat on my bed that day and was sorting my Nintendo Magazines. The first i heard was that it was a retaliation from the japanese for hiroshima and nagasaki, and i must confess, i laught out loud in that moment.

 

[Valthek]

9/11...
seriously, americans?
GET OVER YOURSELVES, damnit!

 

[Terramax]

people find it distasteful that americans still go on and on about it like it was such a big thing.

This is kinda how I feel. I'm sure we can all agree that 9/11 was terrible and yet, if it were to have happened in any other country, I'd bet money most would've forgotten about it a year later.

The one thing I remember most was something I saw an American lady say on the news a few days after it happened - "This kind of thing doesn't happen in America. It happens in other countries, but not in America." The overt amount of patriotism and arrogance that sparked from a lot of Americans shown in the media (not neccessarily an accurate depiction of all Americans I'm aware) did not make it easy for me to sympathise.

Also, how many have reflected back and asked themselves the questions "could we (America) have avoided it? Perhaps, maybe there's a slight chance that we brought this upon ourselves?" Instead, as per usual, it was a case of pointing fingers at everyone else.

It's also rather tragic that a genocide in Rwanda that brutally took the lives of about half a million gets hardly any mention in comparison.