how is the UFC thuggish

[Robot-Jesus]

there was a thread about Dana Whites response to SOPA while he obviously has some serious misconceptions about the internet it brought up a topic I find interesting. That this is typical of the thuggish and base sport of MMA.

what are your thought on MMA, how is it thuggish if you think it so?

 

[StBishop]

It's considered thuggish in the same way all blood sport is.

Hell, people think rugby is thuggish, MMA had no chance.

I personally don't mind it but I don't really mind watching two willing, adult participants fight in a controlled and in a safe (to a reasonable extent) environment fight especially when compared to watching random people jump a guy.

I also enjoy watching specialists from various schools of martial arts fight to see what is most effective.

It's been something I always wished existed when I was a kid (and apparently it did I just didn't know about it) and now that I'm a stiff backed old man (21) I can appreciate the spectacle.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

there was a thread about Dana Whites response to SOPA while he obviously has some serious misconceptions about the internet it brought up a topic I find interesting. That this is typical of the thuggish and base sport of MMA.

what are your thought on MMA, how is it thuggish if you think it so?

It's a couple of guys beating the crap out of each other for prize money, and there's not much else to it. I mean, there's training, but it's training to beat the crap out of someone for prize money. It's not for self defense, it's not for use in war or in a police situation, it's for actively seeking a fight. I can't say I don't enjoy watching the occasional MMA fight, but come on, it's not exactly the most noble sport on the planet.

Anyway, this whole thing came from a post I made that was taken way out of context. Someone said that a UFC promoter sounded like a macho asshole, and he felt bad about pointing that out because it was such a stereotype. I pointed out that due to the nature of MMA, when compared to more traditional martial arts tournaments, it really wasn't all that surprising; it takes a certain amount of machismo to get in the ring like that. Plus, the comparison I was making was Virtua Fighter (e.g., traditional martial arts tournaments) compared to The King of Fighters (e.g., fights sponsored by criminal organizations), and the point was that MMA has more in common with Southeast Asian illegal fighting rings than it does with a traditional martial arts tournament. I guess Street Fighter might have been a better example than KoF, but Street Fighter only really shows the whole underworld thing in the story, while KoF makes it a bit more blatant from the character designs.

Note: I'm not saying MMA is run by criminals. It does, however, bear a certain similarity to a style of prize fighting that generally /is./ The point was originally about how macho assholes would tend to be attracted to something like that, not about the legitimacy of the sport.

 

[aPod]

All sports seem thuggish until you try them for yourself.

Look at golf, it seems thuggish as hell. Bunch of old gangsters whacking balls with a club, riding in matching carts and the clothing... if that doesn't just scream gang I don't know what does.

 

[StBishop]

All sports seem thuggish until you try them for yourself.

Look at golf, it seems thuggish as hell. Bunch of old gangsters whacking balls with a club, riding in matching carts and the clothing... if that doesn't just scream gang I don't know what does.

Now do badminton.

Because shuttlecocks can be pun-eriffic.

 

[Robot-Jesus]

there was a thread about Dana Whites response to SOPA while he obviously has some serious misconceptions about the internet it brought up a topic I find interesting. That this is typical of the thuggish and base sport of MMA.

what are your thought on MMA, how is it thuggish if you think it so?

It's a couple of guys beating the crap out of each other for prize money, and there's not much else to it. I mean, there's training, but it's training to beat the crap out of someone for prize money. It's not for self defense, it's not for use in war or in a police situation, it's for actively seeking a fight. I can't say I don't enjoy watching the occasional MMA fight, but come on, it's not exactly the most noble sport on the planet.

Anyway, this whole thing came from a post I made that was taken way out of context. Someone said that a UFC promoter sounded like a macho asshole, and he felt bad about pointing that out because it was such a stereotype. I pointed out that due to the nature of MMA, when compared to more traditional martial arts tournaments, it really wasn't all that surprising; it takes a certain amount of machismo to get in the ring like that. Plus, the comparison I was making was Virtua Fighter (e.g., traditional martial arts tournaments) compared to The King of Fighters (e.g., fights sponsored by criminal organizations), and the point was that MMA has more in common with Southeast Asian illegal fighting rings than it does with a traditional martial arts tournament. I guess Street Fighter might have been a better example than KoF, but Street Fighter only really shows the whole underworld thing in the story, while KoF makes it a bit more blatant from the character designs.

Note: I'm not saying MMA is run by criminals. It does, however, bear a certain similarity to a style of prize fighting that generally /is./ The point was originally about how macho assholes would tend to be attracted to something like that, not about the legitimacy of the sport.

judo was founded on eliminating the machismo from traditional martial arts competitions, modern martial arts alike MMA are about a lack of ego. not withstanding the audience, who can't stand the ground game because "it looks gay".

 

[Treeinthewoods]

It's the purest sport on Earth, I love watching it. There is no one to back a competitor up, no team to fall back on. If you fall it is because of a deficiency in your training that caused a gap in your skill or a simple bad twist of fate. When a person fights, their true nature is exposed for all to see.

I also like how it kind of finally exposed how retarded most martial art's "styles" and "systems" actually are. TKD, Judo, Karate... any of them could save your life in a particular situation but none of them are enough for every situation. It's like Bruce Lee's entire philosophy was proved right by a couple dudes in speedoes wailing on each other.

I'd wager the reason a lot of people view it as thuggish is the fans. There are lot's of people like me but seemingly hundreds of complete idiots that don't even comprehend what they are viewing, yelling about how a closed guard makes fighters look "gay" when it's about the safest a person could be in a life or death situation off of their back. Grappling isn't "gay" unless you are gay and into broken bones people!

 

[Fatboy_41]

snip

I can't bring myself to agree with you here. Yes, these guys train specifically to go and fight. But trying to say there is no honourable side to them like traditional tournaments is pretty short-sighted. What is that difference?

There is a lack of respect? There are 100 times more examples of guys showing just as much respect as in any other sport than there is showing guys acting like "macho assholes". Granted, there are the few bad eggs that give off this thuggish vibe, but what did John McEnroe do for tennis?

It's not in the spirit of martial arts? It is no different from any other tournament. They just get paid for it. Any tradition martial art tournament is still a show of strength and skill. It's not like organisers go around different schools, choose guys at random and say "Ok, you're going to fight this guy to test your abilities". No, they sign up to the competition and go with the intent to win.

It's not in the spirit of self defence? MMA has proven to the world just how ineffective the more traditional martial arts are. Honestly, if I were going to recommend any "self defence" to anyone, it would be Krav. Those that have trained in Krav Maga know it is an extremely brutal thing. It's also the chosen art of Bas Rutten, former MMA champion.

It's not used for war or policing? I would go as far as to say MMA style training is used in almost every military and police force around. Krav Maga for example was developed for the Israeli Defence Force and McMAP, or Marine Corp Martial Arts Program, is pretty much an MMA handbook.

I train in MMA, my best mate is a fighter and I know quite afew other fighters. They are amongst some of the nicest guys I've ever met. They don't go out in the street looking for a fight, they fight in the ring.

 

[Robot-Jesus]

I think by honour he means looks like something from a kung fu movies.

 

[Weaver]

Because thugs seem to love it?
Have you ever been to a bar? Hell, I've seen people standing in front of bars trying to pick fist fights with people under some guise that they were training for some MMA competition.

 

[unoleian]

Won't comment on the sport, I watch little of it, but I do notice that Tap-Out gear seems especially popular among what might be considered a rather low-brow demographic. Perhaps not "thuggish," but....I don't really have a PC term for it. Trashy types?

 

[lacktheknack]

Because it consists of people beating each other in the face for entertainment.

How is it NOT thuggish?

 

[tmantix]

Well, if you look at sports like boxing. The leagues,at one time, were generally run by mobs and mafioso, due to the fact that it was outlawed. If you talk to someone like my grandfather about MMA, it would probably be the first thing that would come out of his mouth, as he compares it to boxing. Similar to gambling and drinking (during the prohibition).

 

[Paul Adderley]

A sport cannot be 'thuggish', people are thuggish.

Your point is invalid.

 

[ChildofGallifrey]

Won't comment on the sport, I watch little of it, but I do notice that Tap-Out gear seems especially popular among what might be considered a rather low-brow demographic. Perhaps not "thuggish," but....I don't really have a PC term for it. Trashy types?

I don't think there is a PC term for it. Let's just say that guys whose closets are full of Tap-Out clothing are far more likely to pick a fight for the sake of acting macho than, say, someone who generally wears Brooks Brothers suits.

 

[Stu35]

A sport cannot be 'thuggish', people are thuggish.

Your point in invalid.

This.


Now, as I understand the word thug, it is defined thusly: "a common criminal, who treats others violently and roughly, often for hire".

Under that definition, the majority of MMA fighters (who are involved in a legal sport) are not thugs simply because they're not criminals, or to be specific, whilst taking part in MMA they are not commiting a crime.

Obviously the latter points (violently, roughly, often for hire) do ring a little truer, but I have always argued that there is nothing wrong with consensual combat sports.

As for the audience of MMA being from the lower classes... That, in my opinion, is down to marketing. Rugby Union appeals mostly to the upper classes in England, whilst Rugby League appeals mostly to the working classes. Both are fantastic sports which I play and follow avidly, and the only true difference is history - Union has always been the haven of the posh, whilst League was always the refuge of the underclass.


On a side note - I think they should bring back Bare-Knuckle fighting, ironically, because it's safer than modern boxing.

On another side note - Read some books about the History of Rugby League, specifically it's split from the Rugby Football Union, it's a fascinating piece of history that demonstrates rather well how the marketing and running for a sport ultimately determines its fanbase, rather than the sport itself determining this.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

snip

I can't bring myself to agree with you here. Yes, these guys train specifically to go and fight. But trying to say there is no honourable side to them like traditional tournaments is pretty short-sighted. What is that difference?

There is a lack of respect? There are 100 times more examples of guys showing just as much respect as in any other sport than there is showing guys acting like "macho assholes". Granted, there are the few bad eggs that give off this thuggish vibe, but what did John McEnroe do for tennis?

It's not in the spirit of martial arts? It is no different from any other tournament. They just get paid for it. Any tradition martial art tournament is still a show of strength and skill. It's not like organisers go around different schools, choose guys at random and say "Ok, you're going to fight this guy to test your abilities". No, they sign up to the competition and go with the intent to win.

It's not in the spirit of self defence? MMA has proven to the world just how ineffective the more traditional martial arts are. Honestly, if I were going to recommend any "self defence" to anyone, it would be Krav. Those that have trained in Krav Maga know it is an extremely brutal thing. It's also the chosen art of Bas Rutten, former MMA champion.

It's not used for war or policing? I would go as far as to say MMA style training is used in almost every military and police force around. Krav Maga for example was developed for the Israeli Defence Force and McMAP, or Marine Corp Martial Arts Program, is pretty much an MMA handbook.

I train in MMA, my best mate is a fighter and I know quite afew other fighters. They are amongst some of the nicest guys I've ever met. They don't go out in the street looking for a fight, they fight in the ring.

Yes and anyone who you recommend that to is likely to get done rather than do actual self defence. Seriously I have seen Krav Maga and done real self defence. Aggressive crap like that and what is taught in general MMA styles is no more self defence than trying syllabus moves from Taekwondo or Wado Ryu. Although the former will land you gaol the latter will land you in hospital.

The reason stuff like that is used in military applications is because it is lethal not because it is safe and should be practised by normal people. When stuff like neck breaks and eye gouges are taught as self defence something has gone horribly wrong.

Self defence is self defence pure Traditional Martials as they are without adaptation are not self defence and pure aggressive MMA styles and military close combat style are equally not self defence.

 

[Torrasque]

I'll assume "thuggish" means "retarded ape-men with small brains, big 'me smash you!' egos, and live to fight" mmkay?
Now, the reason I find the UFC thuggish, is because of what most people learn (or take from the UFC experience), the "I can take martial arts training and become a macho badass that can beat up anyone!". So you get these douchebags wearing Ed Hardy shirts thinking because they go to the gym all the time, they are better than everyone else. I am good at shooters, but I don't stare people down and challenge them to Halo if they look at me funny.

Another reason I consider the UFC thuggish is the fact that it SHOULD be two fighters of equal skill and weight fighting it out to see who comes out on top, but it isn't. You can have guy A being the most professional fighter in the world, but if he is no good at getting out of submissions and guy B gets him in a submission, he's fucked.
I watch the UFC highlights because knockouts are fun to watch. Besides that, I'd rather watch a game of chess between two old men.

 

[isometry]

The UFC seems like a legitimate sport to me. Just like with boxing, some times I get turned off to the heavyweight matches that are more about how much sheer force their head can absorb (and pay for it later) than about finesse or strategy.

It seems like some people consider UFC to be barbaric because the concussions and spinal injuries in the NFL are not as visible as the blood from a small cut on a fighter's forehead.

 

[Lunar Templar]

there was a thread about Dana Whites response to SOPA while he obviously has some serious misconceptions about the internet it brought up a topic I find interesting. That this is typical of the thuggish and base sport of MMA.

what are your thought on MMA, how is it thuggish if you think it so?

It's a couple of guys beating the crap out of each other for prize money, and there's not much else to it. I mean, there's training, but it's training to beat the crap out of someone for prize money. It's not for self defense, it's not for use in war or in a police situation, it's for actively seeking a fight. I can't say I don't enjoy watching the occasional MMA fight, but come on, it's not exactly the most noble sport on the planet.

Anyway, this whole thing came from a post I made that was taken way out of context. Someone said that a UFC promoter sounded like a macho asshole, and he felt bad about pointing that out because it was such a stereotype. I pointed out that due to the nature of MMA, when compared to more traditional martial arts tournaments, it really wasn't all that surprising; it takes a certain amount of machismo to get in the ring like that. Plus, the comparison I was making was Virtua Fighter (e.g., traditional martial arts tournaments) compared to The King of Fighters (e.g., fights sponsored by criminal organizations), and the point was that MMA has more in common with Southeast Asian illegal fighting rings than it does with a traditional martial arts tournament. I guess Street Fighter might have been a better example than KoF, but Street Fighter only really shows the whole underworld thing in the story, while KoF makes it a bit more blatant from the character designs.

Note: I'm not saying MMA is run by criminals. It does, however, bear a certain similarity to a style of prize fighting that generally /is./ The point was originally about how macho assholes would tend to be attracted to something like that, not about the legitimacy of the sport.

couldn't you say the same about Boxing though? to a lesser extent mind you, but still.

side note: if i'm going to watch a televised fight between to people, MMA > boxing, least with MMA it looks real