How is the Vietnam War taught in the U.S?
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Search and Destroy was a very real piece of US military doctrine.Aidinthel said:
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It was based on the british Commando and early SAS raids of the second world war, where a small but heavily armed unit would quickly move to a pre-determined target inside enemy territory, cause as much damage as possible and make a run back to friendly lines before the enemy could organise a response.
Unfortunately it was very poorly suited to the fighting in Vietnam, where as the world war two raids were directed against eaily identified targets (airfields, docks, battleships, factories etc) there were no such obvious targets in the north of Vietnam. Targets tended to be suspected insurgent trails and sympathetic villages, often attacks would be reinforced by booby trapping the site with claymores so it couldn't re-settled or re-used.
The biggest problem was the measure of success for the operations, which like the original raids they were based on depended entirely on bodycount. The only measure of success was how much damage was done and how many bodies were confirmed killed. The result being that such missions devolved from attacking specific point targets to razing entire villages and their infrastrucutre (paddy fields, waer supply etc) to the ground as quickly as possible. Anyone or thing caught in the raid simply being classified as 'Vietcong personel/equipment' without any real effort made to identify targets.
It was a disaster for US forces on pretty much every front. The Search and Destroy (or 'Zippo' raids) ran for two years from 1968 and roughly coincided with the Rolling Thunder saturation bombing raids. For a lot of rural Vietnam the war until then had been somewhat abstract, bombing did happen but it was slightly piecemeal and generally directed at argets rather than the area bombing employed then. Burning villages to the ground in surprise attacks was perfect recruiting material for the North armies and insurgent groups in the south.
The My Lai massacre was a product of S&R, a US unit moved into My Lai and systematically killed 300-500 civilians (the orders were 'burn the houses, kill the livestock, destroy the foodstuff and perhaps close the wells), mostly women and children, as well as burning the village and it's food stocks down. The attempted cover up and ultimate discovery by the US public of the event did no favours for morale*.
It was also expensive and risky as it involved putting helicopters and men deep into enemy territory. Since world war two man portable anti aircraft weapons had come into being and a number of aircraft and over a hundred US personnel were lost in the course of the raids as well, which was very bad for publicity at home.
The doctrine of Search and Destroy was abandoned early in 1970 but the damage to the US war effort was irreversable by then.
*A small measure of hope for humanity did come ot of My Lai. US helicopter gunship crews covering the operation saw what was happening and did their best to intervene, one going so far as threatening to open fire on the US soldiers if they didn't allow the civilians to be airlifted out. Ultimately their efforts only saved 10-25 people who were directly flown out by the gunships, but it was also these air crew's reports that led to the outing of the massacre to the US public. The army's own report claimed the massacre had been a fierce day long battle with over a hundred insurgents, the helicopter crew's reports stated very specifically what they had seen and their commanding officers took it further
Anyway, at my school we covered Vietnam in great detail, principally because it was the most interesting thing to happen in the western side of the Cold War. Compared to what went on in the east us westerners were remarkably peaceful and prosperous.
really? shows how the uk curriculum jumps around abit as we did a good year on vietnam that to be honest was abit long for it.But we had to learn every fine detail down to why it started all the way to how it effected the country in the future.Tom Templeton said:
We almost spent as much time on it as we did on WWII. We went into a lot of the technology and politics of it more-so than with other wars, which may have been for the best.
we LOVE to elaborate on World War 2, we do so many projects and performances and essays and tests on World War 2, but after that we do a little on the cold war and civil rights movement and then MAYBE there's some vietnam war mentioned.sir.rutthed said:
yeah, they just want us to focus on the glory days
In the high school I went to, we kind of went over the basic, how we fucked up, and how we screwed over the people in the fires of war.
American's generally just believe that it was a pointless unjust war. It seems so from a modern perspective.
American's generally just believe that it was a pointless unjust war. It seems so from a modern perspective.
I still find some ignorance about it when I bring up the subject from time to time. Not too many Americans seem to know about the illegal bombing of Laos [http://legaciesofwar.org/about-laos/secret-war-laos/secret-bombing-laos/] and the side effects it has had on the country. Whenever I hear people say that America has never used weapons illegally to justify all of the countries actions, I like to bring that example up.
For the most part however I'm happy to say that most Americans seem to recognize just how wrong that entire campaign was and how placing all of your faith in the government doesn't work.
[sub]Seriously, more bombs dropped on that country than bombs dropped in the entire f*cking second World War.[/sub]
For the most part however I'm happy to say that most Americans seem to recognize just how wrong that entire campaign was and how placing all of your faith in the government doesn't work.
[sub]Seriously, more bombs dropped on that country than bombs dropped in the entire f*cking second World War.[/sub]
My sophomore year we had to learn about it I can say about what my teachers said was its just a war in which the US fought to contain communism and prevent it from spreading, My teacher didn't go in depth like most but we then talked mostly about the political side with JFK and Johnson and Nixon not the militaristic half of it :/ But I did do research on it and the US at times did wipe out innocent villager due to the fact you can't tell whose a enemy and whose not when the enemy docent wear any type of uniform.
In Ireland the vietnamn war is pretty well covered, im planning my history project on the history of vietnamn in general, should be pretty interesting. Its pretty neutral but you get an air of "MERICA' bombing innocents because of the policy of containment and paranoia about McCarthyism and therefore mistaking freedom fighters in vietnamn, who happen to be communist, as Russia's attempts to spread communism"
Im wondering OP how do they teach the WoI in GB? i missed the thread, got a link?
Im wondering OP how do they teach the WoI in GB? i missed the thread, got a link?
That you won i gather.Lionsfan said:
Yeah, there's still that we done fucked up thing about Vietnam. We kinda just skim over it for the most part.
For context, we spent a month on WWII but spent only a week and a half on Vietnam. I don't even think we talked that much about Korea.
For context, we spent a month on WWII but spent only a week and a half on Vietnam. I don't even think we talked that much about Korea.
Vietnam War was taught fairly well to us, by our awesome teacher. But hell, ask a lot of people and they'll know jack-shit about this war. Some are even so ignorant as to believe the U.S. "won" the war.
As an aside, anyone who believes there are "winners" in war needs to seriously reevaluate oneself.
As an aside, anyone who believes there are "winners" in war needs to seriously reevaluate oneself.
As far as I know, it's not standard curriculum in any required class, though I'd believe that an AP history class would teach it. Sadly, though, I cannot answer your question, it was never taught to me and I had to learn those kinds of things on my own.
That the US won the Vietnam war, possibly?Lionsfan said:
The fall of Saigon, and the unification of North and South Vietnam by the communists sort of suggests that wasn't the case.
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really in high school I dont remember covering any war past... the civil war, really I dont remember much about history from highschool, college history has much more of an impact but they still didnt really cover wars in any great detail