How is the Vietnam War taught in the U.S?

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Yeager942

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My class really went in depth with the war. We learned about the trumped up Tonkin Incident and the the public's opposition to the war, as well as how each succeeding president only further dragged us into the conflict. Looking back, we really didn't skip any part of it. It was an important part of American history, so I can't understand why any class or teacher would skip over it, warts and all.
 

Shy_Guy

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Lionsfan said:
I already said I'm not going to argue ethical violations. There's no doubt that we really should have told the French to shove off when they first asked us for help, and there's no doubt that The Gulf of Tonkin was staged.

I'm not arguing that, I'm saying that from a purely tactical POV the US won the Vietnam War, which is something that often get lost in the shuffle when discussing it
Delaying =/= Stopping. I don't see how anything was actually accomplished "tactically", or otherwise.

o_d said:
I don't think that counts as "winning" the Vietnam War though. It sounds more like putting a bandage on a wound that needs stitches and saying it's stopped the bleeding and you can go home.
Exactly. While also creating many new wounds, I might add.
 

renegade7

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it doesnt get as much attention as, for instance, WW2 but it's come up in my classes and it usually gets a few weeks (we've spent around a month on it). it also usually comes at the very end of the course, because it goes in chronological order and so there may only be a couple weeks at the end.

as for the American Revolution not being taught extensively in england (read the post mentioned by the OP) i can see why they would'nt spend much time on it, that was more of an American issue than a British one.
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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Squid94 said:
Inspired by the topic asking how the War of Independence is taught in the UK.

Basically, I ask because, generally, it's held that the US entered Vietnam (amongst other countries during the Cold War, like Korea) for what can be described as less than noble reasons, and then making a bit of a mess of it. For example, at my school, we shortly studied the 'Search and Destroy' tactics, which as far as I understand, was basically US soldiers walking into Vietnam villages and wiping them clean out, regardless of whether the inhabitants were innocent or not. That's one small part of a part of the course on US foreign policy we did.

Anyhow, back to the point. What sort of stance is taken when the Vietnam war is taught to US students? Under what light do they relay the information to you? How is the Vietnam War taught in the US education system?
The general details are covered, but none of the warcrimes or whatnot. Basically, they give us a timeline saying "We went in after the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, when the gooks totally attacked us first, and left after we lost Saigon", with the various high points touched on.

There's no analysis of the reasons behind it, the ramifications of the cultural upheaval caused by it, or the behavior of our soldiers fighting it. I really wish they'd actually go into those topics, but for whatever reason they don't.
 

Jabberwock xeno

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Fairly well, but as it's near the end of american history, it's kinda of rushed through.

The various war crimes on our part are mentioned, though.

Now, I want to know how come this guy [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov], who SINGLE HANDEDLY averted NUCLEAR ARMAGEDDON isn't taught ANYWHERE?!
 

Lionsfan

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Shy_Guy said:
Delaying =/= Stopping. I don't see how anything was actually accomplished "tactically", or otherwise.
Why should the US be held responsible for what happened after they left? What you're saying is that South Vietnam troops being defeated= US troops being defeated. The Peace Treaty ended the war, and it further actions taken after the Peace Treaty (but before hostility's broke out again) ended all direct US involvement in the war. I'm not talking about the psychological ramifications, the simple fact is that when the US withdrew it's armed forces (and stopped them from returning too) from the Vietnam area South Vietnam still stood as an independent sovereign nation. Why should the failures of South Vietnam to defend their borders be held accountable to the US?

o_d said:
I don't think that counts as "winning" the Vietnam War though. It sounds more like putting a bandage on a wound that needs stitches and saying it's stopped the bleeding and you can go home.
It wasn't just putting a bandage on it though, the Peace Treaty ended the war. That was the stitches, it was after the US left that the North Vietnamese ripped out the stitches
 

kjh242

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We spent quite a while on vietnam this year actually, mostly the general gist was that the war was something of a mistake that, once started, we rather had to finish. The prez couldn't remove the troops or he'd be branded a communist and congress would take over, and he couldn't leave them because, well, duh. All in all, really in depth, especially because we also did a research unit on it in english (website can be found here- http://www4.eanesisd.net/~vietnam/ ) wherein we create videos to go with each soldier who was lost.
 

kjh242

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Jabberwock xeno said:
snip

Now, I want to know how come this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov], who SINGLE HANDEDLY averted NUCLEAR ARMAGEDDON isn't taught ANYWHERE?!
he was a Communist. Why do you think?
 

scar_47

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I actually had a good history teacher so we covered it in depth due to how much it affected our nation, details are a bit foggy since its been 6 years since we were taught it but I remember a lot of discussion about why we were there and how poorly the whole war was handled and how badly the vets were treated when they returned, along with the usual major battles and what not.
 

JochemDude

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I think we in Holland got taught a lot of this pretty well. I can recall learning about The slavery of the dutch merchant fleet and abuse of native africans. Civil War, WW1, WW2, Dutch invasion of Indonesia, Cold War, Korean War, Vietnam War, Cuban Crisis, Soviet Afghanistan War, Many african coupes, Argentinean Regime, Bosnian War and probably some more. From what I can recall is that the US tried to force their ways on a country that didn't want them and was fighting a war they couldn't win nor lose and pulled out because of very bad PR.
 

Spartan448

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The system TRIES to gloss over it, but when they asked me to do research, I found that they left out many of the war crimes comitted by the United States, that the country never answered for. It's a shame that the U.N. and other groups refused to put U.S. leaders on trial for war crimes, because of the lucrative U.S. economy. The States DID make an effort at first to try to only get the NVA and Vietcong, but eventually, we resorted to just firebombing the entire country, and sending bombers into Cambodia WITHOUT A DECLARATION OF WAR. The United States needs to man up and just teach the younger generations about it's shameful past, so that we don't make the same mistake twice! Oh, wait - we already did! (Iraq and Afghanistan)
 

Jabberwock xeno

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kjh242 said:
Jabberwock xeno said:
snip

Now, I want to know how come this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov], who SINGLE HANDEDLY averted NUCLEAR ARMAGEDDON isn't taught ANYWHERE?!
he was a Communist. Why do you think?
Even here in america we are given a neutral view on Communism at school nowdays...

The Cuban missile crisis doesn't have **** on that guy.
 

Chimichanga

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Jun 27, 2009
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"less than noble"?

Ironic you say that, the primary reason we entered the war was due to our crusader-minded conception that communism in Asia would lead to a domino affect that would lead to an even greater spread of communism in the rest of the region. We didn't do it for resources or capital. Some people did profiteer, but they weren't the drive behind our fervor to prolong the war for a decade. Fear and the vain attempt to keep face were our primary drives in this messy conflict.

We originally took over for the French when they couldn't deal with their own inability to stabilize their own colony. Because we saw it as an encroachment of communism upon what we perceived at first to be a quasi-democratic colony, we thought we were fighting for their liberty.

Of course, I'm not trying to justify our action - merely to explain it. Much of the reasons for our intervention has been lost over the decades and with more communication between all factions of the world. Your generation, I think, does not understand our fear of communism because they were not around for the Red Scare of the late 1950's and 60's, with the rise of McCarthy-era communist witch hunts. It was a very real fear that communists from Russia after WWII had infiltrated the American infrastructure and levels of government and were seeking to incite a Bolshevik revolution in the USA. Very paranoid time for everybody, but I feel we Americans took it a little to close to heart. At the time it really boiled down to the two superpowers of the world: the communist Soviet Union and the democratic United States of America. Both sides incredibly paranoid of infiltration from the other: made us both do some very stupid things we would all regret in the hereafter.

The kicker: back then we saw it as an intervention to keep the freedoms of southeast Asia from crumbling under a spreading illness. To them, it was a fight against imperialists - they were not aware of the differences between us and the French before us who fought to keep Vietnam under control. It was a fight for independence for them, whereas we were not at all concerned with annexing them whatsoever. We didn't really understand them or realize their perception of it for decades afterwards.

As with the above paragraph - how it is taught in the US varies due to how murky and gray-scaled everything was due to nobody really knowing what was going on with the either side. High amount of public dissent in America, most of whom grew up to later teach it in schools, so most of Vietnam is taught in a negative light.

It's taught, and in great detail. We are still telling ourselves that we were the antagonists, as I am sure that's how everyone else in the world was taught about it, but on our own soil I guess we try to better explain the chaos that emerges from intangible feelings such as contemporary paranoia.
 

Lionsfan

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JacobShaftoe said:
Lionsfan said:
Most schools just kinda gloss over it, they instead focus on the Home Issues at the time, and not the fact that technically the US won the Vietnam War
ROFLMAOTIP! um... what kind of government does Vietnam have today? I'd think if it was communist that'd mean the US lost that one...
You missed my earlier <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.287908-How-is-the-Vietnam-War-taught-in-the-U-S?page=3#11388179>post explaining my rationale.

JacobShaftoe said:
Oh my word, how can you be a sore loser with all those sour grapes in your mouth?
What are you talking about? I'm discussing facts. I personally think we never should have gotten involved in Vietnam, and I think Congress made the right decision in 1974. But from a Military Perspective Vietnam was a success
 

Knusper

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By the sounds of things we do more of it in the UK than you do in the US. For our exams, the school can study either inter-war international relations or post-WWII which of course partly covers the Vietnam war and The Bay of Pigs Invasion.

That being said, we don't really cover the UK's more imperialist behaviour. That is to say most of it.