How much is Zack Snyder to blame for Batman v Superman?

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I blame them trying to put an entire universe worth of continuity into one movie. Who's fault that is can be up for debate, but who ever it is, your to blame.

That would be Warner Bros. executive board deciding they needed to catch up with Marvel sooner rather than later.

 

[Saltyk]

This is true.

Even though the division of blame you lay out is probably accurate as well, but ultimately the director is the person who gets left holding the can.
I guess that's why so much adulation for a good movie is ascribed to them too.
I know it's a lot more complicated than that given the amount of outside interference that can happen in the weird, weird ecosystem that is hollywood blockbusters production and my oversimplification doesn't accurately encompass this, but to the standard cinema goer the director is responsible for all as anything that does reach the screen has had to have passed by them to get there.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. And I agree that ultimately the director gets the most blame as they are the one who often sees the whole picture. Everyone else is seeing their part, but s/he sees the whole thing.

All this said, I think Snyders issue is that he understand Batman and the mood of those kind of movies well enough to make a good Bat-movie.
A very good Bat-movie.
He just doesn't seem to 'get' Superman.

I actually think you may have a point. The Batman scenes were well put together. Affleck was a surprisingly good Batman. The Warehouse fight was among the best Superhero action scenes ever. Snyder could probably put together a great Batman movie. Just as long as he learns that Batman doesn't kill.

That being said, I heard Affleck has written a standalone Batman film and is being discussed as Director. That gives me some hope for the future of the DCCU.

 

[DefunctTheory]

That being said, I heard Affleck has written a standalone Batman film and is being discussed as Director. That gives me some hope for the future of the DCCU.

It's not being discussed anymore. It's happening. I don't think his script has been approved yet, but I can only assume that, in his capacity as director, even if his script isn't the one he's working with, he can just insert whatever he liked from his own as he wants.

Kind of a shame. I really liked Affleck as Batman, but I'm afraid I can't touch this.

 

[Cheesy Goodness]

BvS, which I liked well enough, tried to do too much in 2.5 hours. You can tell the movie was largely butchered from trying to reduce the run time. I think the execs at Warner Bros are probably the biggest ones to blame. Synder cannot be the only scapegoat here.

MOS didn't have the box office WB were looking for, so they inserted the moneymaker that is Batman. They also decided to world build on top of all that. You cannot have two protagonists, a new villain, a side character that is Wonder Woman, and future setups for other movies in one fell swoop. Iron Man 2 didn't work because it was too busy setting up The Avengers. BvS messed up on slightly larger scale, because it was trying to bite off even more than IM2.

Even so, BvS is not a complete failure. I certainly look forward to Ben Affleck's Batman in future movies. He was almost universally praised in the role, and Gal Gadot's WW was liked to a somewhat lesser extent. Suicide Squad, I hope, will be a step in the right direction. All the other upcoming films are such a huge question mark, especially Justice League. I think people are still willing to give things a chance, but WB/DC are on a short leash right now. Any more screw ups will not bode well.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

David Goyer is a writer who once said that...

Batman Vs. Superman is where you go when you admit to yourself that you?ve exhausted all possibilities. It?s like Frankenstein meets Wolfman or Freddy Vs. Jason. It?s somewhat of an admission that this franchise is on its last gasp.

He wrote the original script, which was rewritten by Chris Terrio. He's a decent writer, and his Call of Duty: Black Ops scripts are some of the greatest writing to ever appear in a videogame, but being involved with this project seems like such a fundamentally bad idea.

 

[Orga777]

David Goyer is a writer who once said that...

Batman Vs. Superman is where you go when you admit to yourself that you?ve exhausted all possibilities. It?s like Frankenstein meets Wolfman or Freddy Vs. Jason. It?s somewhat of an admission that this franchise is on its last gasp.

He wrote the original script, which was rewritten by Chris Terrio. He's a decent writer, and his Call of Duty: Black Ops scripts are some of the greatest writing to ever appear in a videogame, but being involved with this project seems like such a fundamentally bad idea.

David Goyer is also an idiot of epic proportions that clearly doesn't know anything about comic books or the characters associated with them. He was the brain dead idiot that insulted She-Hulk in the most crass way possible, showing how completely ignorant he is on the subject of comic books. http://www.cinemablend.com/new/David-Goyer-Dismisses-She-Hulk-Giant-Green-Porn-Star-43125.html

He also insulted Martian Manhunter, too, and anyone that is a fan of the character. The moron.http://www.blastr.com/2014-5-21/superman-writer-david-goyer-slams-martian-manhunter-calls-she-hulk-porn-star

So, really, I would say Zack Snyder is MOSTLY to blame, but David Goyer gets to share some of that as well for being... well... himself, and if I had my way, he would be nowhere near any other comic book movie for the rest of his life.

 

[Stewie Plisken]

Snyder is to blame for his approach to super-heroes, if his approach doesn't work for you. The man doesn't do super-hero and WB didn't want him to, anyway. Man of Steel is an alien invasion movie -not a Superman movie- and Batman v Superman is a thesis in deconstructing the super-hero, both on a creative and an audience level. Whether this is good or bad remains to be seen (and it's largely subjective), but Snyder is definitely to blame for that. Also, for the editing and his weird idea that making everything loud is somehow a good thing.

Having said that, the story wouldn't have felt nearly as disjointed if WB hadn't stuffed the movie until it burst out with Justice League teases. There was no need for a Batman v Superman, there was no need for a fight between them, there was no need for so many allusions to Justice League. This same film would've been far better received (I'd wager around the same level as Man of Steel was), if WB could pace themselves a bit.

 

[Dizchu]

That being said, I heard Affleck has written a standalone Batman film and is being discussed as Director. That gives me some hope for the future of the DCCU.

Me too, Affleck is a fine director and a good writer too. Maybe he can bring Matt Damon on board (Robin, perhaps?).

 

[Saltyk]

That being said, I heard Affleck has written a standalone Batman film and is being discussed as Director. That gives me some hope for the future of the DCCU.

It's not being discussed anymore. It's happening. I don't think his script has been approved yet, but I can only assume that, in his capacity as director, even if his script isn't the one he's working with, he can just insert whatever he liked from his own as he wants.

Kind of a shame. I really liked Affleck as Batman, but I'm afraid I can't touch this.

Good to hear. Maybe he can make a good movie. Guy seemed heartbroken to hear that people didn't like the movie.

Honestly, I'm now wary of Suicide Squad. The more I think about it, the more I worry that it might be just as bad. And that extends to anything in the DCCU. Including an Affleck helmed Batman movie.

That being said, I heard Affleck has written a standalone Batman film and is being discussed as Director. That gives me some hope for the future of the DCCU.

Me too, Affleck is a fine director and a good writer too. Maybe he can bring Matt Damon on board (Robin, perhaps?).

The implication in the movie is that Robin is dead. Which kind of sucks. Guess that means we will never see a live action Nightwing or Teen Titans.

 

[mduncan50]

That being said, I heard Affleck has written a standalone Batman film and is being discussed as Director. That gives me some hope for the future of the DCCU.

It's not being discussed anymore. It's happening. I don't think his script has been approved yet, but I can only assume that, in his capacity as director, even if his script isn't the one he's working with, he can just insert whatever he liked from his own as he wants.

Kind of a shame. I really liked Affleck as Batman, but I'm afraid I can't touch this.

Good to hear. Maybe he can make a good movie. Guy seemed heartbroken to hear that people didn't like the movie.

Honestly, I'm now wary of Suicide Squad. The more I think about it, the more I worry that it might be just as bad. And that extends to anything in the DCCU. Including an Affleck helmed Batman movie.

That being said, I heard Affleck has written a standalone Batman film and is being discussed as Director. That gives me some hope for the future of the DCCU.

Me too, Affleck is a fine director and a good writer too. Maybe he can bring Matt Damon on board (Robin, perhaps?).

The implication in the movie is that Robin is dead. Which kind of sucks. Guess that means we will never see a live action Nightwing or Teen Titans.

The belief is that they're following the comics in that the dead Robin is Jason Todd, not Dick Grayson, so neither Nightwing or Teen Titans are off the table.

OT: I'd say that most issues I have with the characterization can be traced back to Goyer, and with the plot (all 50 of them) traced back to WB/DC mandates, I think we have seen enough of Zack Snyder's movies to know where his weaknesses are and they were on full display in Dawn of Justice.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Blame? Blame yourself. They shown you lots and lots of trailers, it was very obvious how this thing will turn out, but you still went and gave them money for it.
And that is what they made this shit for, why would they give a damn about quality if you give them money no matter how it turns out. As long as you pay for it they will make more random nonsense for purchase.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

It's tough to say because you ultimately don't know exactly what decisions were entirely up to Snyder vs. what the studio mandated.

I do feel some level of sympathy for Snyder, as I'm sure at some point Warner Bros came up to him and said "Hey Zack, you know that whole universe building thing that Marvel did over the course of 5 movies before 'Avengers' came out? Yeah we need you to do that in one movie."

But still, so much of the movie was a giant misfire. Casting Jesse Eisenberg, the gigantic plot holes, some cringe-inducing bad scenes (young Bruce being levitated by bats and the "wait, my mom's name is Martha too!" moment stood out to me), and the ridiculous number of dream sequences. I'm sure Snyder was directly responsible for several of those.

That being said, I heard Affleck has written a standalone Batman film and is being discussed as Director. That gives me some hope for the future of the DCCU.

Me too, Affleck is a fine director and a good writer too. Maybe he can bring Matt Damon on board (Robin, perhaps?).

Holy cow, having Affleck and Damon as Batman and Robin might cause some sort of bromance singularity event.

 

[Dizchu]

Holy cow, having Affleck and Damon as Batman and Robin might cause some sort of bromance singularity event.

After Snyder's humourless monstrosities and Nolan's Batman trilogy I think a bit of levity would help the franchise out a ton.

Let's not go full Schumacher though.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Holy cow, having Affleck and Damon as Batman and Robin might cause some sort of bromance singularity event.

After Snyder's humourless monstrosities and Nolan's Batman trilogy I think a bit of levity would help the franchise out a ton.

Let's not go full Schumacher though.

I still contend they should have had Adam West be the new Alfred Pennyworth. I like Jeremy Irons but he was so damn morose in that movie.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Zack called Marvel fans morons and their movies simply (despite Winter Soldier being everything Man of Steel failed to be, and Civil War likely to be Marvel literally one uping Batman v. Superman in every single way).

Also I googled the very word you said "Zack called Marvel fans morons" and the first result is you very post in this very thread

https://www.google.com.pr/search?q=Zack+called+Marvel+fans+morons&oq=Zack+called+Marvel+fans+morons&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Zontar]

[
Also I googled the very word you said "Zack called Marvel fans morons" and the first result is you very post in this very thread

Yeah, word-for-word google searches tend to do that. Plus I was paraphrasing. He never out and called Marvel fans morons, but he sure was leaning that way with what he stated about BvS compared to Marvel movies.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Zack-Snyder-Takes-Shot-Ant-Man-Here-What-He-Said-81867.html

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

[
Also I googled the very word you said "Zack called Marvel fans morons" and the first result is you very post in this very thread

Yeah, word-for-word google searches tend to do that. Plus I was paraphrasing. He never out and called Marvel fans morons, but he sure was leaning that way with what he stated about BvS compared to Marvel movies.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Zack-Snyder-Takes-Shot-Ant-Man-Here-What-He-Said-81867.html

Zack is not completely wrong however.

I mean Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Spiderman have rose above and beyond the other superheros. (And I think X-Men at onw time was like that aswell I mean it got its first proper Superhero movie)

I personally never cared for Ant-Man. I mean I watched his movie and found it very by the numbers and Ant Man is too much of a second stringer hero. The sameway I see Flash and Green Arrow best as second stringers (and I like the Flash)

 

[Zontar]

I mean Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Spiderman have rose above and beyond the other superheros.

That's true, but not in a way that Warner and Sony would want to take credit for. Never have such high budget projects been such critical flops that are so bad in Sony's case they ended up working with the enemy.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I mean Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Spiderman have rose above and beyond the other superheros.

That's true, but not in a way that Warner and Sony would want to take credit for. Never have such high budget projects been such critical flops that are so bad in Sony's case they ended up working with the enemy.

Well in this case Sony is not working with its enemy but just gave back Marvel's toy that Sony was way overdue in returning.

DC has been Warner Bros./Time Warner's toy since the beginning.