How much longer until videogames are accepted as an art form or beneficial to society?

[Divine Miss Bee]

all new media are eventually recognized as having value. unfortunately, ignorance has a bigger megaphone than the side with the facts (mostly because people love big, shiny headlines and words with single syllables), so it could be a while. i'm not holding my breath.

 

[jboking]

When hard-core or at least not casual gamers becomes the majority of people on the planet. Or at least when there are more influential people in the world who have respect for video games as an art form. There are already plenty of games out there that could be considered art, and plenty that have caused major changes to society.

Why do videogames need to be accepted by anyone other than the people that enjoy playing them?

Things that I require my videogames to be:
-Fun

Things that I do not require my videogames to be:
-Artistic
-Benificial to society

Basically, because some people love video games and at least what them to become something more than just fun. That doesn't mean you get rid of fun in the process, something can be both fun and artistic, it just means you expand what the title 'video game' means.

 

[Numachuka]

if Portal wasn't "The Game", there never will be one.

and to answer your question: not until there are no more religious (or otherwise closed-minded) zealots out to cockblock the whole world.

Because you need to be religious to be close-minded, eh? Also, Portal is not the greatest thing the video game industry has put out in the past 10 years, let alone in the 30+ years games have been rising in popularity. Portal is a cult hit that is regarded largely in gamer circles, but sees little relevance in the mainstream (besides that irritable 'The cake is a lie,' reference).

What is art, exactly? Wikipedia defines it as such:
"Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging symbolic elements in a way that influences and affects the senses, emotions, and/or intellect."

See, the thing is, playing a game isn't the same thing as watching a film or reading a book. Video games require input. Therefore, we essentially control the art. While I won't say that all the storylines, models, and graphics in the game wouldn't be considered art, playing them, is, and never will be, art.

Also, as previously said, citing the Mona Lisa and the 9th Symphony in your defense of video games as an art isn't the best way to go about things. We will not have "the game" until we have games as an art form itself.

I hate you.

OT: How does having input not make them an art form?

 

[Dead_Man]

In my mind, they already are. It's just trying to convince other people is the issue

 

[Zyphonee]

Unless there is a secret comitee of mages who decide what is and what isn't art/beneficial to society, I don't see why we should even care about what the illiterate say. Games can be as much of an experience as a novel or film can.

 

[Peteron]

They aren't either. Not even in the slightest. Everyone has to understand that they a created as a way to have fun and pass time. You guys think way to deeply on this subject. A video game is JUST a game.

 

[drummond13]

"the Game" has already come out at least 2-3 times. The thing is that not everybody plays games, and many that don't aren't about to start now.

 

[Piction Froject]

They aren't either. Not even in the slightest. Everyone has to understand that they a created as a way to have fun and pass time. You guys think way to deeply on this subject. A video game is JUST a game.

Or maybe you don't think deep enough about them? Do not knock it unless you actually delve into it.

 

[liquidus118]

Never.
If anyone thinks that businesses would bother producing anything of artistic merit when they can just rip-off Call of Duty or Gears of War for massive profits then I admire your optimism.

 

[MajoraPersona]

It will be considered an art form ~50 years after everyone who was alive before video games has died or gotten old enough to be laughed at, just like every other form of art.

 

[Delusibeta]

Never.
If anyone thinks that businesses would bother producing anything of artistic merit when they can just rip-off Call of Duty or Gears of War for massive profits then I admire your optimism.

Businesses? Why my boy, I think you're looking in the wrong direction for your art. As with the movie industry, it will be the indies that will provide the most artistic video games, not the big businesses.

 

[RaikuFA]

i think the only reason we want it to be art is so they can be protected under the first amendement

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

if Portal wasn't "The Game", there never will be one.

and to answer your question: not until there are no more religious (or otherwise closed-minded) zealots out to cockblock the whole world.

Because you need to be religious to be close-minded, eh? Also, Portal is not the greatest thing the video game industry has put out in the past 10 years, let alone in the 30+ years games have been rising in popularity. Portal is a cult hit that is regarded largely in gamer circles, but sees little relevance in the mainstream (besides that irritable 'The cake is a lie,' reference).

What is art, exactly? Wikipedia defines it as such:
"Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging symbolic elements in a way that influences and affects the senses, emotions, and/or intellect."

See, the thing is, playing a game isn't the same thing as watching a film or reading a book. Video games require input. Therefore, we essentially control the art. While I won't say that all the storylines, models, and graphics in the game wouldn't be considered art, playing them, is, and never will be, art.

Also, as previously said, citing the Mona Lisa and the 9th Symphony in your defense of video games as an art isn't the best way to go about things. We will not have "the game" until we have games as an art form itself.

to answer your first question: "religious (or otherwise closed-minded) zealots". i.e. i am saying that while religious zealots make up a good chunk of the closed-minded, they are not all of them. as i said earlier, i'm a religious person myself, so i'm not speaking in absolutes here. i don't usually speak in absolutes, except in hyperbole.

also, there is another definition of "art" which includes anything exquisitely crafted and which evokes an emotional response from the viewer. and that would, at least in my opinion (and art is relative to opinion) make games like Portal "art". now, i also never stated that Portal is the greatest game ever, but i do think it should have been able to bridge the gap. it was an interesting gameplay idea, with well executed gameplay, attractive graphics, and an entertaining and even somewhat thought-provoking story.

 

[jboking]

if Portal wasn't "The Game", there never will be one.

and to answer your question: not until there are no more religious (or otherwise closed-minded) zealots out to cockblock the whole world.

Because you need to be religious to be close-minded, eh? Also, Portal is not the greatest thing the video game industry has put out in the past 10 years, let alone in the 30+ years games have been rising in popularity. Portal is a cult hit that is regarded largely in gamer circles, but sees little relevance in the mainstream (besides that irritable 'The cake is a lie,' reference).

What is art, exactly? Wikipedia defines it as such:
"Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging symbolic elements in a way that influences and affects the senses, emotions, and/or intellect."

See, the thing is, playing a game isn't the same thing as watching a film or reading a book. Video games require input. Therefore, we essentially control the art. While I won't say that all the storylines, models, and graphics in the game wouldn't be considered art, playing them, is, and never will be, art.

Also, as previously said, citing the Mona Lisa and the 9th Symphony in your defense of video games as an art isn't the best way to go about things. We will not have "the game" until we have games as an art form itself.

While I think there are better definitions for art, I will still use yours and say that video games fit in that category perfectly.

Are you a hardcore gamer? Really get into games and look for those cult games? If not, try out a game that is a little bit more common, but still very touching emotionally, Metal Gear Solid 3. Yes. I just stated that a Metal Gear game has an emotional aspect to it, I understand how absurd that may sound.

Spoiler: but

When the boss, your mentor, essentially your mother figure, informs you that in order to uphold her duty to her country she needs you to kill her. When the final scene comes about and you have to hold your gun up to her face and pull the trigger, helping her do what she thinks is right. If you can tell me through those scenes you were not effected emotionally at all you either didn't pay attention to the story, or are heartless.

Furthermore, it's true that games require input, however, in single-player games you never have total control over where the story goes. In that MGS3 example, you will always come to that ending. There is no changing it for something cheery and happy. I think you admit this in your post. What this shows is that video games have the potential to convey a meaningful story or message.

Also, you may want to check what exactly you are calling art. Playing the game is not what anyone is considering 'the art of video games', it's creating the game that we would view as art. This would make the developers/programmers/writers/composers/etc the artists. Likewise, viewing an artistic movie is not art, creating the artistic movie is art.

 

[Tennou486]

within 20 years when all the old farts who are afraid of videogames die.

Exactly. It'll be like comic books. Everyone who hates them is going to have to leave before any real opinions change.

 

[Scuzzymcfi]

3years 12 days 18 seconds is when the games comes out it shale be called man kind has yet to realizes my genus

Say he who misspells "genius". Unless you really were trying to spell "genus". But then that sentence doesn't really make sense.

AlsoThis has probably been mentioned already, but fuck it)

Shadow of the Colossus (You know why).

Portal (You know why).

Silent Hill 2 (You know why).

Okami (Playing inside a piece of art).

LittleBigPlanet (Allowed you to make art).

Psychonauts (Brilliant mind-bending [no pun intended] story).

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Shows the atrocity of war).

Alien Hominid (Screw you, I love Alien Hominid).

Collectively, these 8 games should be thrown in the face of anyone suggesting that videogames are not and can not be art.

Also, I'm not parroting Yahtzee here, these were my sincere feelings before ever finding this website. However, I love the fact that the unappeasable dick agrees with me.

Also; love Zero Punctuation. And Yahtzee, I just couldn't resist a friendly jab.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

Probably when we start moving away from the 'Stallone Flicks' stigma, and into something more thought provoking.

But really, it likely won't occur until there is some sort of coherent unison in the gaming community. Which is as likely as Jupiter replacing our moon.

 

[LordofPurple]

My question to everyone is "HOW are we going to prove that they're an art form/beneficial to society"? Just the other day someone made a reference to a game (Fallout 3, I think) and the person they were talking to said "No. Do not ever use a video game as a reference to anything in the real world. Ever."
Fallout 3 is one thing I guess, but at the same time: WHAT does someone say to that?
How exactly do we, ordinary video gamers, get people to understand that video games can and should be acknowledged as an art form?
Or maybe I'm the only one that's ever had an issue with this in my social life?

 

[DarthFennec]

I disagree. There will never be `The Game', or rather, there have already been plenty of `The Game's and none of them have made much difference. Think about it this way, if the most perfect, beautiful, amazingly artistic game that will ever be known to mankind came out tomorrow, do you think Jack Thompson will give a rat's ass? Anti-video game activists generally don't play video games, so no matter how amazing a game is, it won't change their minds. I can kind of see where you're coming from with that though, I mean if there was a game that was as respected and well known as the Mona Lisa then you could consider that `The Game', but personally, I don't think any game is going to get anywhere near that much respect until after video games become accepted as art.

I think there are two things that need to happen before games gain artistic acceptance. The first is that we need to start making better games. We need to branch out and explore new territory, we need to cross boundaries and take risks, because otherwise we won't go places, we'll be stuck in brown-and-bloom FPS land for the rest of eternity. This is a job for devs and producers mostly, but the rest of us can speed up the process a hell of a lot if we start getting our act together. If you want the industry to make more artistic games, you have to buy more artistic games, and you have to stop buying the less-artistic ones. You have to show the market what you want, by putting your money there. This seems obvious to me but I hear plenty of people who sit and complain about how stupid the next FPS is going to be, only to turn around and buy it anyway, just to confirm that it was really that stupid I guess. Even if we don't like it, if we keep buying this shit, it will keep being sold to us, that's common sense.

The second thing that needs to happen is these anti-game activists need to find a new scapegoat. This is easy, it's just a matter of waiting it out. Historically, what we're going through happens to everything before it makes it as an art form. Sooner or later, these people will stop worrying about games and start hating on some other new artistic media that hasn't been invented yet. If, once this happens, the game industry is still alive and kicking, we've pretty much done it.

That's my opinion.

 

[Xanadu84]

Honestly, I think it will happen when a sizable percentage of games don't tell their story through the lens of a power fantasy.