Simply implying that sex is there is just fine. Look at the MGS series
In 3, they're rolling around together on the floor while the camera pans away, not showing anything overly explicit.
In 4, Otacon gets pulled into the helicopter by Naomi and the screen fades to black
That is how I personally think it should go anyway :3
Honestly, I always felt it looked pretty akward to see Snake rolling around with a woman in front of a fire place in full camo.
I don't think sex scenes in games will ever work. Not in an interactive sense, anyway. It's more or less a Bioware staple now to have a static sex scene in their games after romancing a character. But this is less about creating some interesting sexual situation and more about icing on the hero's cake; You just saved the universe and you got the girl, woohoo!
There's more than enough oppertunity to create decent sexual situations in games, but actual sex scenes? No.
Now that I think about it, the only sex or "love" scene in a game that was interactive and worked was in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. It's this kind of dreamy moment where the Prince and Farah become separated, and the Prince must follow Farah's voice throughout a bath house with multiple doorways as she whispers sweet nothings to lure him in the right direction.
I guess my issue with it is that it just hasn't really fit properly anyway. Stuff in games should all be about developing the experience and anything that doesn't fit accordingly ends up ditracting from quality. Take a shooter for example that halfway through randomly throws in an intense bejewled section for no other reason then to have it in there. Makes no sense right? Unless sex is a core part of the story development, and demonstrates a signifcant and intergral part of a relationship within the characters then it is not necessary and is actually just deminishing.
Either hardly showing any of it at all, as sex is vulgar and immensely awkward to be the idle onlooker - most literature either lightly skips over sex scenes or emphasises them as gratuitous or symbolic, aka the horrifying sex scenes in Naked Lunch and the American Pro-Capitalist independence orgy of Atlas Shrugged - or have them horrifying, like Pyramid Head's lovely sex scenes. The reason sex hasn't been covered in video games that much is because sex does not equal romance, it equals porn. If you want romance you focus more on character interaction and dialogue, not fully naked cutscenes of polygons going at it. Some of the best romances in video games don't even have bodily interaction.
I like an option to become intimate in games that involve a moderate or above level of role playing in them. It makes sense that relationships would develop in such small circles - which is usually the situation main characters find themselves in. On the other hand, I do prefer it not be overdone. Having the option to have a fling with anyone and everyone is interesting for variety, but it diminishes the plausibility when everyone in your party swings both ways simply because devs wanted you "to have all options" - it becomes obvious and diminishes immersion. Also, death to archetypes already! The damaged bad boy, the sterling but bumbling good guy, the girl who just wants to be casual, and the girl who wants you to practically give her a ring first - two words: grey areas; we need them.
As for the animation of the intimacy, I prefer my doses to be light, but frequent. A few good kisses, a hug here and there, animated should leaning by either party in rough times, all would be perfectly acceptable to me coupled with a make-out gone black screen until morning. I'd rather see displays of affection between romantic characters than just be shown they're rolling in the hay periodically. Unless of course it's the girl who only wants to be casual - then I guess we're just friends with benefits? Ugh.
Either hardly showing any of it at all, as sex is vulgar and immensely awkward to be the idle onlooker - most literature either lightly skips over sex scenes or emphasises them as gratuitous or symbolic, aka the horrifying sex scenes in Naked Lunch and the American Pro-Capitalist independence orgy of Atlas Shrugged - or have them horrifying, like Pyramid Head's lovely sex scenes. The reason sex hasn't been covered in video games that much is because sex does not equal romance, it equals porn. If you want romance you focus more on character interaction and dialogue, not fully naked cutscenes of polygons going at it. Some of the best romances in video games don't even have bodily interaction.
Almost done play 2 of DA2 and I think Bioware is still slowly improving in this regard. In DA2 the different romantic partners you can have do all react differently and there isn't one set romance arc or set time for the love scene. Love and sex are important things in almost any mature story so I welcome the failures as long as progress is being made.
I do feel the whole romance angles could still be much more organic though. As the OP says, open things up even more and allow for multiple love scenes instead of just one, and allow for different approaches (madly passionate, slow and tender, seasoned and knowing, etc.) or even reasonings for them. Having a wild make out session after the rush of slaying a dragon may not even have anything to do with a deep and meaningful relationship, but I'd imagine that sort of thing might happen and could make for good story telling. All praise for interactivity aside, I'm not sure the actual love scenes themselves need to be interactive though.
As far as what should be shown? I'm fine with it being done in a tasteful fade out. In Bioware's case, this works wonders because often the pre-sex stuff is done fairly well.. it's the during and after stuff that just looks odd with where the technology is right now.
OT: Romances should be more in depth and shouldn't just be about the random flirts then oh wait controversial sex scene that depicts very little! No, you're right OP, it should be about establishing a relationship in the game with certain characters where you maybe then progress to having sex. But there should definitely be more than just a random hump n' dump.
If there was one game that did romance the worst though, it would have to be Fable 2. I would always attract masses when doing that one quest at the beginning where you have to marry a woman or break her heart. Then every woman would have a heart over there head, showering me with gifts and trying to sex me up. Then when I decide to have a kid I go through to a black screen after demanding my wife follow me to the bedroom and lay with me. Then a few in game hours later (that I didn't spend with my wife) I had a full grown kid.
1) Mustachioed guy should walk into room wanting to fix the plumbing\airconditioning (he could be coming in to do some genenric building work)
2) Cue the music
3) Gordon Freeman doesn't say anything, Alyx isn't too happy tho
4) Alyx says 'Come on Gordon we've got to go!'
5) Gordon leaves 'with a little regret'
6) Gordon saves the world!
OT: Romances should be more in depth and shouldn't just be about the random flirts then oh wait controversial sex scene that depicts very little! No, you're right OP, it should be about establishing a relationship in the game with certain characters where you maybe then progress to having sex. But there should definitely be more than just a random hump n' dump.
I hate, hate, hate, hate, HATE to hype a *shudder* Masato Kato game, but Xenogears showed the pre- and post-love making scenes of Fei and Elly, and I always thought it was tasteful and respectful (don't ask my opinion about the rest of the game). Basically, no real "sex scene"; just the stuff that happened before, followed by the morning (was it morning?) after.
It was one of the rare examples in Japanese storytelling where the protagonist and his chief love interest actually hook up DURING the story and not at the end/after, to boot.
Curse you Masato Kato for providing an example of where you did something right. But don't think I've forgotten about Sands of Destruction and what you did to the Chrono series. Oh, there will be... probably more complaining. >=(
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Just to stir the pot a bit:
People saying "there shouldn't be sex in videogames" aren't stating opinions; they're making objective assertions that, when subjected to thoughtful scrutiny, turn out to be wrong.
Not everything is subjective, even in art (which games fall under). Not everything is opinion, and not every opinion is well-formed.
It depends. I personally dont want sex scenes in a game - dont think its necessary. But when I think of why I get no reason. They're useful and can be plot driving in films, so logically in a game with a plot they should have equal stay.
Maybe it's a mix of shyness and concern regarding media stone-throwing that stops devs. Most parents would shout if a game showed a sex scene, but if a film shows a woman topless theres less outcry...
At the moment, I think it is that... that it is uncomfortable and unfamiliar. It being uncomfortable and unfamiliar means that fewer devs are willing to risk true commitment with something, and will end up rather immature, childish, or not completely thought through (much like early inclusions of anything sex in movies, or anything where children are in part the target of the audience, like PG 13 movies. I've actually seen some PG movies handle sex better and more maturely than some more childish R movies or even PG 13 movies.) I like to think its because of one important difference. In film, it is often the case that we are shown or told the story. However, for games, there are different levels.
There are some where it is only entertainment, and there is no story. Like Tetris.
There are some where there is a story, but it is shown like in film specifically because it is either separate from or remotely related to the gameplay. Example... actually, a lot of flash games.
There are some where it is related but is railroaded (point and click adventures) or where the gameplay controls small, ultimately inconsequential elements of the story, like in Fahrenheit (or for the Americans, Indigo Prophecy), or the Call of Duty series. For these, while the gameplay decides inconsequential things, it can still be very immersive, depending on either how the controls are set up, or the subject matter (example, though you don't get to control anything really important in Call of Duty (often), because it is fast paced war, and for many people that really pulls them in.)
Then there are some that while point A is always the same, and point B is always the same, important story elements are put in the hands of the player, ones that change usually the tone or mood of the game, and can either be by player choice or by player challenge. Here, I'd like you to imagine one company and one person. Both specialize in games like this with player choice. One specializes in the player making the story, or tale, or... oh, what's the word.... The other has many different settings for their games, but almost all of them are a series of one type or another. The most famous probably has 4 installments now. If you'd like, you could try and guess, or you could try looking up on Wikipedia to see if you can find it out.
Anyway, the answers are Peter Molyneux of Fable, and Bioware.
As far as the player challenge part, there actually is a great series and a second game that are great for this: (No, I won't just give it to you, now really guess before you click.)
Left 4 Dead series, and Alien Swarm
since any one character falling makes it much more difficult (and of you're playing with only friends, it can really hit home.)
But then, there's the type of game where gameplay actually makes the story. These games are genuinely fewer, but all the same, I will leave you to think of your own ideas.
What game devs need to learn, or at least are trying to learn I think, is that each of these, if sex is included in any way, needs to be approached in a different way, and a lot of it ties to plot (if you read closely the examples for each type, how the plot ties to gameplay is very similar to presentation and possible reader interaction.) And it is precisely because the plot is handled differently in different games that sex must also be handled differently. Of course, this doesn't change that sex should also be handled maturely.
tzimize said:
Imo there are two games that have got it "right". And by right I dont mean perfect, just, good.
1: Witcher. The cards were sexy and nice, and without a doubt one of the most fun things I've collected in an rpg ever. EVER. It seems CD Project knew they were not going to be able to make the scenes themselves sexy, so they just faded out. Rather that than awful cartoon sex.
2: Mass Effect 2. With Tali. The cameras fade out before any actual action, and it was natural that she had so much clothes because of her biology. Also, it was funny/cute. Too many sex scenes forget that sex can be just that, funny. The dialogue and situation made me laugh, instead of being just cheesy.
I dont mind sex scenes being explicit, in fact I think I'd prefer an awful cartoon penis instead of the eternal dry humping of pg-13 games.
I agree on this though, I don't mind explict.
After all, from time to time I do play around with Artificial Girl 3.
But discussing sex in games is.. I think a lot of it depends on the characters themselves.
* Are the Characters mischevious?[footnote]Just for giggles, I'd personally end up here X3[/footnote]
- Then make it look playful with giggling, hugs and cuteness.
* Are the characters innocent goodie goods?
- Make it looks very romantic, very sensual and very loving.
* Are the characters jerks or otherwise, decisive?
- Make it look rougher, like one of them is taking command over the other and deciding it.
If you have a character who goes around and glares and in general, acts like a jerk - Would this character really giggle in bed?
That's my reasoning for this.
These two give good examples of how exactly sex should be handled maturely in games, either by working around technological limitations, or rating limitations maturely (again, think of inclusion of hints of sex in Disney movies) but, it also shows that sex can be used a different way. Sex does not have to specifically and only be used to show heavy, adrenaline driven passion. Awkwardness, humor, mischief, anger, jealousy, sorrow, romance, and even assholery are all human qualities, and when establishing characters as human characters its important that they have human characteristics, meaning that these qualities should also be reflected either to strengthen characters or show other sides of them. I challenge to the second, Zeithri, that while its important to have the nature of the characters' sex reflect the characters themselves, I think on the oneside that the lead up to it should also be handled maturely or at the least written off in a different way. for example, in Firefly (I know its not a game, but)
Here, sex between Wash and Zoe and their intimacy or any buildup to it is written off completely rather than developed specifically because at the beginning, they are married. In a game setup where you were playing as one or the other, a good dev would set up sex in this situation not to slowly get the player to develop feelings for the other before having sex, but instead use sex as a tool to show the level and type of intimacy between the two, much like in the TV series.
I secondly challenge that sex could be used to show more dimensions to a character, or turning an otherwise flat character into a foil, or even showing a change in a character. For an example of this, maybe the character that usually until now is absolutely the control freak, that can't handle not being in control of not only themselves, but also others, sees something that pushes them over the edge, and they suddenly break down, and when they go back to their bedroom, their lover is there to take control from them, provide them comfort, end it with much cuddling, what have you. Suddenly, this character who seems like an unfeeling absolute hardass, someone who honestly doesn't sound like a human character, becomes human. Or for something more cliche that wouldn't need to be shown actually in an explicit scene, something that could simply be implied, the typical shy gal/girl in public, freak in the sack. This could be shown rather simply from a line or two before or after the fact (Example, character other than the two "involved" saying, "By the way captain, nice to know you had fun, but keep it down next time.".) As far as examples, I've not played many like that, but feel free to add any you can think of.
In other words, in most cases, especially story-driven or story-creating games, I think including sex done properly and maturely, should be done, but it should be included only if appropriate, and if appropriate and properly handled, even if its explicit, it will be ok. I just also think that in a lot of examples, its been either immaturely handled, or the results end up more disappointing or funny than the handlers intended.
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- couldn't be said better tbh
