How should the next Elder Scrolls Game be handled?

[SajuukKhar]

They main change they should atlest intergrate is the fact that you should NOT be able to join the Assassins AND the companions AND the thieves guild AND the mage guild (did i leave any out, there are so many) but be able to only run with one.

-Why do they need to put a limit on something that is purely optional?
-Why do they need to prevent you from joining all the guilds when the only thing that determines if you join all the guild or not is you?
-Why should people who want to join all the guilds be limited because of other peoples desire of not wanting to be able to when those people can just not join all the guilds?

Joining all the guilds is like fast travel, no one makes you use it, and just because you don't want to use it doesn't mean that everyone else who does should be prevented from using it.

Mariage had no benefit at all. Dont think i ever slept in a bed to regain health, just use the wait option. This is a story of you hacking dragons in two with a dagger (or two). no i DO NOT want a nagging wife when i come home with not enough dragon bones.

Getting married and sleeping in the same bad as your spouce gives you a bonus to how fast your skills level up. It's called Lovers Comfort, and it raises skill leveling speed by 15% for 8 hours.

Yah as others have said, bring back the depth so that it can actually be called an RPG. The perks are a fine idea, and it's definitely fun to be able to have them, but scrap the basic "level up health, magic, or stamina?" thing and bring back all the skills in both their major and minor forms. People like points, i don't know where this idea that people who play RPG's don't like stat screens came from, but it's annoying.

The problem with the attribute system is that it kills character diversity.

In all previous elder scrolls games there would come a point where you would max the attributes relevant to your playstyle long before you actually finished leveling all your skills. The result of this would mean that when you level up next you would have to level up all your other attributes because your major ones were already maxed. The result of that is that by the time you were done leveling almost all character would have 100, o nearly 100, in all stats making all characters the same.

The whole attribute and major/minor skill system was removed because it provably killed character diversity in the long run.

Morrowind and Oblivon's skill system can be described as "start off unique but become the same", while Skyrim is "start off the same but become unique"

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

The Elder Scrolls game could have such an amazingly engaging story if they put some decent effort into it.
They got the feeling of being in another world down pretty well, especially in Skyrim, but once you get past that novelty there's nothing to make you care about the world.

Hire some damn character writers, Bethesda!

Imagine if the quests in Skyrim had relatable stories like in Heavy Rain or The Walking Dead game.

 

[SajuukKhar]

The Elder Scrolls game could have such an amazingly engaging story if they put some decent effort into it.
They got the feeling of being in another world down pretty well, especially in Skyrim, but once you get past that novelty there's nothing to make you care about the world.

Hire some damn character writers, Bethesda!

Imagine if the quests in Skyrim had relatable stories like in Heavy Rain or The Walking Dead game.

The story of the Elder scrolls has always, and most likely always will be, told outside of the games themselves in interviews, and developer made forum stories.

Elder scrolls actually has an over arching plot that connects all the games together, and many of the characters from across the games, in ways most people don't realize.

 

[Navvan]

Elder Scroll protagonists are one time unique chosen ones usually foretold by prophecy and I like it that way. It allows them to focus on new story elements rather than beat a dead horse.

I would like better dynamic gameplay and realistic character interaction. They have been steadily improving on it, but the still have a ways to go. A better balancing between the skills as well would be nice it was still really easy to overpower yourself accidentally.

They need to do something new with the factions/guilds. More interaction, more choices, all I know is that they haven't really innovated anything in that department in a long time.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

The story of the Elder scrolls has always, and most likely always will be, told outside of the games themselves in interviews, and developer made forum stories.

Elder scrolls actually has an over arching plot that connects all the games together, and many of the characters from across the games, in ways most people don't realize.

Why wouldn't they put it into the game on purpose? That's idiotic. That's like making a bland, boring TV show littered with 2-dimensional, archetypical characters and then saying "but the fanfiction this generates is gold! So it's a lot better than people realise."

 

[The White Hunter]

I think it should just be; You're a mercenary, take odd jobs at guilds or from civilians themselves.

That.

Also, add in a bit more variety to the fucking dungeons, I don't want to keep seeing the same stuff over and over.
Also, a bit more depth to the combat would be nice, flailing wildly is all well and good but all you'd have to do to spice it up is rip off Demon's Souls just a little bit. Add countering and stuff, etc.

Finally: Fix the way your game handles save data Bethesda.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I think it should just be; You're a mercenary, take odd jobs at guilds or from civilians themselves.

That.

That's never going to happen, the game is called elder scrolls for a reason, i.e. all the games are prophecies foretold by the Elder scrolls, everything is going to be a "chosen one" scenario. Its the whole premise of the game, and the game's title.

Hell, every main character of every ES game is the freaking avatar of Lorkhan, also known as Shor, and Shezzar, the creator of the mortal realm, you CANT be him and not be some uber-hero.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

You contradicted yourself in the first sentence. That challenge, while not being the main focus, was always there in the first 3 Elder Scrolls game, and then they started dumbing it down. Funny, because I remember loving Daggerfall and Morrowind, so and since they were supposed to set the standard for the series, It should be a game I would enjoy.

The problem with this illusion of "choice", is that none of it matters. Oh sure, there are a few things that are limited if your low level, but really you could spend the whole game as a sneaking thief in light armor and a Dagger, switch to Heavy Armor and a Warhammer, and you won't face any real challenges. It doesn't cost you any perk points to duel wield, only if you want your swords to swing slightly faster. If you boost a skill, you aren't narrowing your options at all. I could specialize in Warhammers, and nothing is stopping me from just using a dagger and not being penalized.

Er, yes, there were classes in previous Elder Scrolls, so...
I'll state right now, they could have easily fixed the attribute system, they easily could have revamped it without dumbing it down, instead they decided to just remove them entirely so no one who plays will have to make tough decisions. Though it isn't surprising, Bethesda seems to be fans of taking the easy way, if the reasons for lack of medium armor is any indication(according to Todd they removed it because it was difficult to balance). Not to mention, the risk of making a bad decision was one of the many reasons for attributes, to give you meaningful gameplay decisions that make you actually think.

What people have you been watching make spells, everyone I've seen used it to make fun and interesting spells. In Morrowind for instance, there were people making spells that Drained enemy fatigue, and increased speed for a swift retreat. Some people would make spells that turns you invisible and shot fire just to mess with the NPCs. There were people making levitation spells that caused mass death! Again I say it, they could have easily fixed the redundancies that they had. Instead they opted to just take out half of the spells and spell making, because according to them "we just have to make it easier to learn and easier to play" or else console players won't enjoy it.

I did not say the games weren't hard, I said the challenge does not come from learning how to take advantage of stat/skill/gear synergies and planning. Not in Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. Actually, the games tend to break wide open if you attempt it. Morrowind was harder in lots of ways but that wasn't one. I then attempted to account for why that is other than Bethesda is dumb and wants dumb people to purchase. I think it fits what they are apparently trying to accomplish with the series. I'm not saying The Elder Scrolls is as smart as Arkania, I'm saying not every game should be that smart.

If you punish me for using a build, that's one more build I can't use. Letting me explore the possibilities and personalize my character has taken priority since Morrowind. That's fine, it fits THIS game quite well. Not every RPG has to be like Arkania, especially not one that sacrifices so much in the name of freedom and exploration. These games are sprawling and broken as fuck. Turning the skill system into a complex brain teaser that rewards smarts and punishes dumbness is both a doomed effort and a failure to take advantage of the elements that make The Elder Scrolls unique.

When I say I'm surprised you like The Elder Scrolls, I don't mean that as a criticism. I'm only trying to understand how your opinions of the games relate to your criticisms. Telling me why you liked Morrowind despite not thinking much of the choice it offers is exactly what I'm fishing for.

It seems like every time I see someone criticize Skyrim I find out they're playing it on easy mode. That's the only explanation for why you could think perks don't matter, and why you said in an earlier post that hard battles could be won by flailing mindlessly. If you are playing on a difficulty that challenges you, you will need perks to succeed. Not for every single enemy, but there is no way you could play through a hard dungeon and tell me perks don't make a difference. You could probably find a way to beat the game without spending them, but if you're telling me they don't make the skills they go into obvious choices over the alternatives I'm calling bullshit. If you play without perks you are gimped, period. Skyrim is the first Elder Scrolls game I have played where my high level character can't do everything equally well.

Why tweak the attributes? Just for the sake of having attributes? They sucked. What you say you want attributes to accomplish, we now have. I agonize over the perk calculator in a good way. Spend your points wrong and you will regret it. That doesn't mean making a good build necessarily requires a functioning brain, but it does mean you have to make choices. And that beats the fuck out of grinding and counting up multipliers. You just pretend perks don't offer meaningful advantages and that's straight bullshit. Perks cut the cost of my spells in half and double my melee damage, and that's just to start with.

As for classes, I'm only going back as far as Morrowind. The "classes" weren't really anything I would describe as real classes, they just grouped some skills together and called them "Knight" or something. Nobody even used them except maybe for laughs. No big loss. Getting rid of them emphasizes the theme of choosing your own personal style and exploring your options.

I said I was conflicted about the magic. You brought up the use for spell making that I neglected, which is dicking around. Spell making was cool but I don't view it as a big deal. It was little more than a curiosity, not something really important that I couldn't live without. There are advantages to a more structured system and they are visible in Skyrim. Some feel so strongly about spell making and I just don't.

I said Skyrim was both streamlined in a good way and dumbed down in a bad way. But I think the extent to which it is dumbed down compared with Oblivion is overstated. I think it is actually more sophisticated in some ways, specifically: perks>attributes, the way melee weapons are organized and separated, and the magic effects being a little more organic and varied than "on touch" and "on target".

 

[The White Hunter]

I think it should just be; You're a mercenary, take odd jobs at guilds or from civilians themselves.

That.

That's never going to happen, the game is called elder scrolls for a reason, i.e. all the games are prophecies foretold by the Elder scrolls, everything is going to be a "chosen one" scenario. Its the whole premise of the game, and the game's title.

Hell, every main character of every ES game is the freaking avatar of Lorkhan, also known as Shor, and Shezzar, the creator of the mortal realm, you CANT be him and not be some uber-hero.

Forgive me for never reading any book inside any elder scrolls game. I just explore and do side quests a lot, the only reason I did the main quest of Skyrim before the 100 hour mark was cuz I wanted the shouts xP.

Fair enough though.

It still needs a more robust combat system and more varied dungeons though.

 

[Confidingtripod]

This thread seems like alot of people arguing over semantics, at base the games arent about story but exploration, both of character and world, I love complex class systems but I can see why skyrim's lack of that works, yes it needs some more variation in dungeon, maybe a little more character development here or there but with sheer number of NPC's you can clearly see how they missed that aspect, oh and they have always had the same dialogue, there was more variation in skyrim, a couple more voices across the same race and many characters had specific greetings and interactions, I also saw an argument about restricting which factions you join: why is a guy in the thievs guild trying to recruit the archmage of the college of winterhold?

I personally would like to see the next game based in black-marsh or elswyr, and dedicatedly have human-esque characters in the minority, as frankly, it seems the human fans of the series are becoming a little too attached to see that the games are supposed to play differently to eachother

 

[Rack]

The thing about power gaming in Morrowind is it's like having a running race with a tortoise. It can be done, and you can push yourself hard if you like, but it takes only the absolute vaguest effort to succeed. They're exploration driven games and embarrassingly simple to break wide open. Truly optimising in them can be challenging but it's the difference between demolishing the toughest enemy in the game at level 1 or merely crushing him.

Similarly with the spell making you COULD make a spell that drained enemy fatigue and increases your speed, or for less mana you could cast familicide. If it could be fixed then great but I think it needs an entirely different approach to Morrowind and Oblivion.

Morrowind is difficult to play, easy to master. It's just the wrong way round. That said I think there can be some common ground in where we'd like to see it grow, even if we're never going to agree on attributes and the like. I'd suggest a sequel add in options that make sense. Go up to light weapons, one handed weapons, dual handed weapons and polearms. You might not like that a warrior can swap from a sword to a mace to an axe with little penalty but to me those weapons perform similar roles and there is little choice in forcing players down one path.

Funny thing is, you can't even pose a challenge to the toughest enemy at level one, the only way to prevent it from being 100% in his favor is if you specialized in heavy armor and axes, found the axe in Seyda Neen, equipped the best heavy armor you could find, cast some fortify skill spells, and then drank about 50 sujamma. He would still kick your ass.

You could make a powerful spell, or you could cost the less effective but cheaper spells. Yeah, I'm sure a high level mage would much rather use a cheap but weak spell when they can make a way more powerful version with a few added perks.

It's not that I don't like the fact that using a sword makes you better with a mace, it's the fact that it is just wrong. Plain and simply wrong. The art of the sword is incredibly different and requires a different skillset than utilizing a mace, someone who trains in one will not become better at the other. It's plain and simple logic. Hell, melee weapons can differ so vastly from each other I could probably give a speech about how a Katana and a Broadsword are entirely different styles and how they should technically be two different skill trees(I wouldn't though, because they are at least similar enough that it still makes some sense). If you really think it makes sense for a swordsman to gain skill with a mace or an axe by training with a sword, than look up videos of different weapon techniques, there is a vast difference.

Picking up an axe from the starting zone and using a few potions isn't even coming close to starting abusing the systems in Morrowind. A quick trip round the map abusing the broken economic system to get yourself the money to craft some broken items and you're good to go. It doesn't even really require prior knowledge, though on a first attempt you would likely pick up a level or two by accident if you weren't totally committed. If you've a mind towards optimising characters though you have to work hard not to trivialise the entire game.

You have your reasons for liking separate weapon skills and that reason is that you feel it is unrealistic. But it is your reason, not some grand overarching truth, you might be able to argue it is definitively unrealistic but not that the game is realistic in any other sense, or that realism is an absolutely essential quality to the genre. If you apply a little suspension of disbelief there are good gameplay reasons for connecting skillsets together and they have nothing to do with "dumbing the game down" instead it's about making a game that involves making interesting decisions.

 

[Longstreet]

They main change they should atlest intergrate is the fact that you should NOT be able to join the Assassins AND the companions AND the thieves guild AND the mage guild (did i leave any out, there are so many) but be able to only run with one.

-Why do they need to put a limit on something that is purely optional?
-Why do they need to prevent you from joining all the guilds when the only thing that determines if you join all the guild or not is you?
-Why should people who want to join all the guilds be limited because of other peoples desire of not wanting to be able to when those people can just not join all the guilds?

Joining all the guilds is like fast travel, no one makes you use it, and just because you don't want to use it doesn't mean that everyone else who does should be prevented from using it.

Mariage had no benefit at all. Dont think i ever slept in a bed to regain health, just use the wait option. This is a story of you hacking dragons in two with a dagger (or two). no i DO NOT want a nagging wife when i come home with not enough dragon bones.

Getting married and sleeping in the same bad as your spouce gives you a bonus to how fast your skills level up. It's called Lovers Comfort, and it raises skill leveling speed by 15% for 8 hours.

On the guild part, mostly because it makes no sense at all. One guy to rule ALL guilds? it been a while since i played it but from what i recall the companions and the thieves guild were not exactly best buds.

In one way you are wrong though. for the crown of benezia(?) quest you NEED to join the thieves guild to finish it

To become a werewolf you NEED to join the companions.

But logically you shouldnt even be ABLE to join every guild.


On the mariage part, it is fun if you want to use it, i guess, but the benefits are so low. If you are a werewolf you wont have the bonus as far as i recall. And each time i need a rest i wont fast travel home just for a nap and cash, ill press the wait button. In my case the skills went up fast enough along with the pace of the story for me to able to take on every enemy. Hell i think the only stone i ever touched was the thieve stone in the beginnen to get my thievy skills up even quicker.

 

[Dedtoo]

I just want one very simple thing: Set it in Black Marsh, with Argonians as the majority of the population.
Yes, I like the Argonians. >_> But at least it'd be unique!

 

[BakaSmurf]

snip

it should have to do with something meaningful to the world, I mean in the games it seems like your just fixing history or whatever problem is happening, the world should advance somehow; and the character is a major component to it; they've already tread those roads. Make something new and different for A SEQUEL; like you are the person who has been chosen to advance the world by the gods, you're an unknown, but alter things from behind the scenes, and over the course of the game the world would change as you do and alter more and more things.
THAT would be interesting, not some loophole that only fans whom have been playing since the early games would get

As an end-note: Saving the world is meaningless if it doesn't do anything; you want the world to advance; I mean they have been in the middle ages for 4.4 thousand years; that is literally the time from the bronze age to today; the games themselves span over 1000 years; and what has changed, only the political situation, not even in a meaningful way; just kings taking power and clans fighting; I don't want more of the same, if I do I will just replay Skyrim with enhancement mods, and not waste 60$

The major civilizations of the Elder Scrolls have yet to move past medieval-era tech because they can't, the Aedra literally take technological advancement as an enormous challenge/insult to their power and wiped out the Dwemer for having the gall reach steam punk levels of technology. Or that's what they believe, anyway. The disappearance of the Dwemer as a whole can't be properly explained, even by that lone surviving fellow in Morrowind. Regardless, the possibility of the presented scenario being true scared the other civs so bad that they just decided to not risk it.

That aside, allow me to pose to you a question; why would one bother with learning how to handle black powder, machine rifles, and operate the resulting guns, when literally anyone can learn how to throw fireballs with their MIND? The Fable series handled this question well, in my opinion, technology didn't really begin to pick up and advance until after magic began to fade from the world and became exceedingly rare because as long as magic is a common thing nobody needs to learn how to build guns (because FIREBALLS) or advanced construction equipment (because telekinesis), etc.

 

[SajuukKhar]

On the guild part, mostly because it makes no sense at all. One guy to rule ALL guilds? it been a while since i played it but from what i recall the companions and the thieves guild were not exactly best buds.

In one way you are wrong though. for the crown of benezia(?) quest you NEED to join the thieves guild to finish it

To become a werewolf you NEED to join the companions.

But logically you shouldnt even be ABLE to join every guild.


On the mariage part, it is fun if you want to use it, i guess, but the benefits are so low. If you are a werewolf you wont have the bonus as far as i recall. And each time i need a rest i wont fast travel home just for a nap and cash, ill press the wait button. In my case the skills went up fast enough along with the pace of the story for me to able to take on every enemy. Hell i think the only stone i ever touched was the thieve stone in the beginnen to get my thievy skills up even quicker.

-The Companions and The Thieves Guild are neutral to each other, furthermore, The Companions wouldn't know you are in the thieves guild so they have no reason to not let you in.
-You don't have to do the Crown quest, and in fact, you dont have to do ANY quests in the game except the one were you escape from Helgan, so again, no one is making you join a guild for any quest.
-You don't have to become a werewolf though, it is entirely your choice or not.
-Actually, logically, you should.
--The Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood is a rather secret organization and would LOVE to gt their hands on a higher ranking member of any other guild so they can use them to get the other guilds to secretly do what they want.
--the Fighters guild and mages guild are neutral to each other have wouldn't know you are in the evil guilds so they have no reason to not let you in.
There is literally no logical justification for any of the guilds to deny you membership based on what other guilds you are currently in.

The major civilizations of the Elder Scrolls have yet to move past medieval-era tech because they can't, the Aedra literally take technological advancement as an enormous challenge/insult to their power and wiped out the Dwemer for having the gall reach steam punk levels of technology. Or that's what they believe, anyway. The disappearance of the Dwemer as a whole can't be properly explained, even by that lone surviving fellow in Morrowind. Regardless, the possibility of the presented scenario being true scared the other civs so bad that they just decided to not risk it.

This is incorrect on so many levels
1. The Aedra don't give two flying fucks about the technological level of the races.
2. The Dwemer wiped themselves out when they merged their souls into the giant robot Numdium, the Aedra had no part in their disappearance.
3. The other civilizations are actually studying Dwemer tech and trying to remake it, they just suck at it, nothing "scared them off" of technological development.

I thought Dragonborn meant you were a member of the royal lineage that was started by Akatosh way back when? Uriel Septim etc? As for that stupid, nordic character in all the Skyrim cinematics; I have no idea.

Akatosh started the Dragonborns with Alessia, the founder of the First Empire. Reman Cyrodiil, and Tiber Septim, founders of the Second and Third Empires respectively, were also Dragonborn, and wre totally unrelated to Alessia.

The Dragonborn power is something given by Akatosh, it is in no way passed through parentage. The Dragonborn in Skyrim isn't related to any other dragonborn, he just is a Dragonborn.

It still needs a more robust combat system and more varied dungeons though.

True

Altough they have been working on the dungeons in each passing game. skyrim's dungeons were at least generous enough to give every dungeon its own special large room, or large series of rooms that no other dungeon had, and everything from the most normal cave, to the largest Dwemer citadel, had something, or several somethings, found only in it to make it unique.

Compared to past ES games Skyrim's dungeons are the most diverse so far.

 

[SajuukKhar]

It is quite obvious the Thalmor plot in Skyrim is going to be resolved in the next Elder Scrolls game as part of its main plot. As such the next game will most likely be in either the Summerset Isles or a return to Cyrodil.

Though personally I'd much prefer the game to not resolve the Thalmor Leave them as a villain faction for a couple more games setting up there lore and actions across the continent. Instead show us how the Khajit are living under the Aldmeri Dominion. Maybe have the game take place with the Khajit breaking free similar to Skyrim leaving the Empire amid some major crisis involving some Daedra.Bonus points if said Daedra causing trouble is Jyggalag from the Shivering Isles DLC of Oblivion.
This is what I want. But seriously do not see happening,

Jyggalag most likely doesn't exist anymore, he was reabsorbed into Sheogorath after Shivering Isles.

Its hard to explain but Sheo and Jyggy are in a way the Daedric counterparts of Lorkhan and Akatosh, and much like Lorkhan and akatosh, who are the same being, Jyggy and sheo are bound to each other in an eternal cycle of one beating the other only to them be beat by the other again.

It is best explained here
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/arden-sul