How should the next Elder Scrolls Game be handled?

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SajuukKhar

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poxyrom said:
You don't need to be a Dragonborn to learn shouts, you just need a lot of practice.
They could make it so that you can learn shouts from master(s) of the voice. They start off being weak, then as you "learn" how to do them, they gradually become better and better.
The only masters of the voice left are the Greybeards, so unless the next game is also set in Skyrim, we wont be seeing them again.

It would be better for us to learn Redguard sword-singing, it is much like the Thu'um except instead of learning words of power from massive word walls, the Redguards put their power inside stone cubes.

The Redguards were basically Jedi, they had energy swords, and stored their knowledge in cubes, similar to the star war holocrons.

Hell the greatest sword-singers could split atoms with their swords, with normal, everyday, swords.
 

Manji187

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Anthraxus said:
s69-5 said:
Complicate it back up. Skyrim was dumbed down too much.

I want to create spells.
I want races to have meaning beyond a palette swap.
I want a more interesting level mechanic than vanilla levels/ perk.
Not gonna happen. After all those copies they sold, Beth is fully entrenched in the casual market now. The days when they were making a more complex style RPG like Daggerfall are LONG gone.


Said it before and I'll say it again, at this point they should just fully concentrate on the combat system, completely ditch that shit engine and drop their terrible/meaningless RPG elements. Make more of an open-world action-adventure type game with actual good combat and some magic.
So, according to you, TES should become something like a way bigger, but less challenging Dark Souls?

What is it with RPG's (and RPG elements) these days? Do they offend the masses so much? Do they stand in the way of making greater profits?

How much more can a game be dumbed down? Press A to do everything? How much dumber can the actual gameplay get than "Go to place X, kill everything there and loot everything that can be looted"?

What a sad, sad state the triple A industry is in. Increasingly succesful in making and selling utter shite. Latest example (not an RPG but still); Resident Evil 6.
 

Manji187

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Anthraxus said:
But yea, as far as the ES games goes, they've casualized the rpg elements so much in their games, all their stats and rpg mechanics are pretty much meaningless, their story elements and choices and consequences are dogshit/non-existent, quests are boring... At least make the gameplay (combat) fun and satisfying. It needs to be more reactive, have a sense of weight & momentum applied to movement/blows, have different animations for different weapon types. Also be more visually appealing. If I'm slashing at something with a sword I want to see some damage being done, some dismemberment. And I'm not talking about some shitty cinematic finisher I have no control over. First thing would be to ditch that shitty gamebryo/creation engine, or what ever they want to call it.

When it comes to combat, they need to take some hints from games like Dark Souls, Dark Messiah, Gothic 2, Mount and Blade, and Blade of Darkness.
Yeah, it would be nice to experience realistic weight & momentum based combat in contemporary games. It would probably require a specialized enigine to calculate and render the results.

A troll swinging a massive mace at a characters head should have vastly different outcomes depending on whether it was blocked, how it was blocked (straight on or at an angle), with what it was blocked (tower shield made out of iron or a silver shortsword) and who did the blocking (a huge barbarian or a big orc have more mass and strength than some frail wood elf). So in one scenario it would be stopped (almost) completely, while in another it would stagger the blocker, hit the shield/ sword out of his hands, send him flying 30 feet or taking his head off.

Also, combat strain and injury should be better represented. The longer a fight lasts the greater the risk: the character deals less damage, and becomes increasingly slower in all of his movements and won't have such a sturdy grip on his weapon and or shield. Arrow to the (unprotected) knee? Game over, because crippling pain and no mobility = sitting duck/ arrow sponge.

If you choose to play a sneaky thief with light armor and daggers in such a world, you better plan ahead and play dirty, for it can be over in a flash.

Probably too much work for developers, though.
 

el derpenburgo

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In Oblivion there was an ingame book that vividly described the Aldmer home island. It was apparently a desolate wasteland torn asunder by magic, last seen a few hundred years ago, or something like that. I always thought it would be interesting to set an Elder Scrolls game there, maybe the Dominion send an expedition and find out that the island's been repopulated by the Aldmeri who are desperately trying to rebuild. There would be a lot of cool magic going on and some really crazy fantasy stuff could come in, since the island is basically like an alien planet. I think the main plot would write itself.

edit: There seems to be a lot of people who want realistic medieval settings and action... but I don't think TES has ever been that kind of game. I'm not having a go, but is this because we've all been living too long in the world of dark fantasy? I love GRRM and Dark Souls but TES has always been rooted in High Fantasy and I hope it stays there.
 

Mikejames

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Zenn3k said:
Oh, and more interesting quests which more branching story arcs.

Skyrim's quests are SOOOO BORING.
Agreed. For all the flaws Oblivion had there was at least more of a sense of creativity in what you were doing besides-
Go to dungeon,
Kill all bandits/draugr,
Try to find shopkeeper with enough money to buy your loot,
Repeat.
 

tangoprime

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Jaeke said:
Well, in the words of Todd Howard (holy be thy name), each Elder Scrolls game is made in mind as a completely seperate piece from its predecessors.

Also, Skyrim was sort of hinted as the last Elder Scrolls game. At least for this generation.
Next-gen??

I don't know but if it doesn't rhyme with "lack-of-ear" I'm not sure of an alternative route to expand beyond where the series is now.
Haha, completely agreed, I REALLY want to see what's happening over on that continent, all we have is some lore about an imperial invasion force getting curb stomped.
 

RustlessPotato

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I'd like a more alien environment like Morrowind had. I was quite pleased with Skyrim's, but I know they can do more.

More diverse quests, or silly quests. For example, the Quest of Sheogorath in Skyrim I found underwhelming, considering he's the Mad God.

Lastly, I have a problem with guilds. I don't like the fact that I'm able to be Arch Mage and sucking in magic for example. That's personal opinion and I know that I'm not forced to join the guild.

(Also, maybe, I shouldn't have been able to do the end boss thing so easily, while playing on Master difficulty without using uber armor that you can exploit)
 

RobfromtheGulag

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Not online.
Seriously, am I the only one that finds the prospect of the idiocy of MMOs not a good mesh with an immersive world like Elder Scrolls? Games like Wow are fun, look nice, but the immersion was gone about 5 minutes after I entered Ironforge (and this was back in 2004).


I would prefer (though by no means necessary)
-A more lush/tropical setting.
-A more humdrum protagonist. Even if they did have the budget* to make you feel as epic as you should, it gets tiresome being Mr Uberpants all the time. You can't very well blend in if everyone supposedly reveres you.

[*With the repetitive sayings and limited script of people, it doesn't seem too impressive when I go talk to some Jarl of a hole in the wall burb and he asks me to get him a beer and then rewards me with an Iron Axe of Freezing. I'll keep the Akaviri, thank you very much. And the guards shouldn't be mistaking me for the common rabble in the first place, I'm the saviour of the whole damned world!]
 
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Jaeke said:
... You mean the
Falmer??
Yes, and you're right :) I mean the you-know you meet after the you-know-what in the Forgotten you-know-where with you-know-who. It's a pretty big deal considering and I think it would be a shame not to explore it in the future.
 

SajuukKhar

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RobfromtheGulag said:
Not online.
Seriously, am I the only one that finds the prospect of the idiocy of MMOs not a good mesh with an immersive world like Elder Scrolls? Games like Wow are fun, look nice, but the immersion was gone about 5 minutes after I entered Ironforge (and this was back in 2004).


I would prefer (though by no means necessary)
-A more lush/tropical setting.
-A more humdrum protagonist. Even if they did have the budget* to make you feel as epic as you should, it gets tiresome being Mr Uberpants all the time. You can't very well blend in if everyone supposedly reveres you.

[*With the repetitive sayings and limited script of people, it doesn't seem too impressive when I go talk to some Jarl of a hole in the wall burb and he asks me to get him a beer and then rewards me with an Iron Axe of Freezing. I'll keep the Akaviri, thank you very much. And the guards shouldn't be mistaking me for the common rabble in the first place, I'm the saviour of the whole damned world!]
The next Elder Scrolls isn't online.

ESO is a side game being developed by an entirely different company.

el derpenburgo said:
In Oblivion there was an ingame book that vividly described the Aldmer home island. It was apparently a desolate wasteland torn asunder by magic, last seen a few hundred years ago, or something like that. I always thought it would be interesting to set an Elder Scrolls game there, maybe the Dominion send an expedition and find out that the island's been repopulated by the Aldmeri who are desperately trying to rebuild. There would be a lot of cool magic going on and some really crazy fantasy stuff could come in, since the island is basically like an alien planet. I think the main plot would write itself.
The Aldmer homeland is Alinor, also known as the Summerset isles, and it is perfectly fine.

Aldmeris, the place the elves believe they came from, is a fictional place, it is a collection of dreams and memories from back when the elves were one race, before the spirit wars splintered them into the various races we see today, Aldmeris never actually existed.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept
As they were the most powerful of lesser spirits in the ages after the Convention and eager to emulate what they saw, the Aldmer began construction of their own towers. That they built more than one shows you that they were not of one mind.

The Aldmer began to split along cultural lines, on how best to spread creation and their parts in it. Each Tower that was built exemplified a separate accordance.

This sundering of purpose is the myth of the "destruction of Aldmeris." Outside of the Dawn, and even then only in the dreamtime of its landscape, there was never a terrestrial homeland of the Elves. "Old Ehlnofey" is a magical ideal of mixed memories of the Dawn.
 

monnes

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SajuukKhar said:
Jyggalag most likely doesn't exist anymore, he was reabsorbed into Sheogorath after Shivering Isles.
Wasn't the whole point of the shivering isles DLC that you, the player, the hero of kvatch, stopped the greymarch and therefore Jyggalag managed to break free from his curse of existing as Sheogorath? And then you take sheogoraths place as the new prince of madness. Incidentally, the Sheogorath you see in Skyrim is strongly hinted to be the playable character from Oblivion.
 

SajuukKhar

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monnes said:
Wasn't the whole point of the shivering isles DLC that you, the player, the hero of kvatch, stopped the greymarch and therefore Jyggalag managed to break free from his curse of existing as Sheogorath? And then you take sheogoraths place as the new prince of madness. Incidentally, the Sheogorath you see in Skyrim is strongly hinted to be the playable character from Oblivion.
To the average person yes, but for those who know the lore no. The whole point of the Shivering Isles DLC was in fact to show the futility of fighting against the king/rebel.

I augguest you read the following docunent, it explains in detail how Jyggalyg wasnt really freed
Arden Sul - http://www.imperial-library.info/content/arden-sul

In short Jyggalyg and Sheo are tied in the same way Akatosh and Lorkhan are, in that they are the same person, a rebel who is also a king, and like Akatosh and Lorkhan they are eternally doomed to kill each other, which is to say themselves, time and time again.

You can never free Jyggalyg because Jyggalag IS Sheogorath and vice-versa, by becoming Sheo you also became his other, his antithesis, Jyggalayg, who is now inside you, just as Sheogorath is.

the article explains it in far better detail though.
 

DoctorObviously

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The beautiful thing about the Elder Scrolls universe is that a huge amount of stories, characters, titles and villains can still be put into the world. Let's forget that Elder Scrolls Online exists, as it will forever ruin the series and just assume the next title of the franchise will be another iteration (as in TES VI).

Please note that these are all simple ideas. I would like to see perhaps two locations, one being Morrowind completely remade and another location. You can have it so that the sizes are plausible, but still large enough for immersion.

A simple, but grounded story would be nice, for a change. It doesn't have to be "hurr durr kill Cthulu" but maybe a much more personal story would be nice, for me. Maybe you are on the hunt for an elusive organisation, a famous murderer or thief. It doesn't have to be a Conan story, but something really sinister and threatening to a single individual.

The sidequests on the other hand can be much bigger and more grand. How about two clans not getting along with each other and battling it out in an open field? Hundreds of NPC's fighting each other. Or a sidequest for the Thieves Guild in which you and a wizard must find a hidden stone SOMEWHERE in the world and you have a limited time, say, a month to find it. You would have no clues, but you must use your skills as a thief to find it, such as eavesdropping in every city, stealing ancient maps and so forth.

Another quest would be to lead another adventurer such as yourself to greatness. You don't babysit him of course, but you can really talk to him into choosing a life path in a L.A. Noire kind of way. Later in the game, based on your conversations, he becomes either consumed by Lawful Good, Chaotic Good, Neutral or Chaotic Evil and you must decide what you should do with him or how you judge his actions you led him to so long ago. Maybe remaking side quests from previous game that didn't really work would also be a good idea.

Giving the conversations system an overhaul would be a good idea. I don't like the fact that you can talk to every single sentient being ever. Sometimes, a person should say: "Hello.", or "Why are you bothering me?". I don't want to click on a person, and be able to listen to his or her life story.

Like in Assassin's Creed, it would be nice if the game really felt more dangerous and the NPC's more paranoid over time because of your actions. Severely limiting Fast Travel would also be nice, it makes the world seem much more grand and real. I don't really know how Bethesda could make it in such a way that it still remains fun, but it's a thought.

On the technical side, I would like to see a better UI and more of a personal 'touch' to the game. What I mean about that is, if you would pick up an item, to have an animation of you picking it up, that your virtual avatar really 'touches' the world. Seasons such as Summer, Autumn, Winter and Spring would be lovely. I would love to see a TES game where your actions truly change parts of the world, I've really been missing that, but this may not be possible with my ideas, only in certain parts, like a bloody battlefield or something.

I loved the Bioshock 2 style of combat though, that can DEFINATELY stay. Maybe Bethesda should find a way to SPEED UP the combat, as it felt like one of those old DOS game we used to have.

An example:

/hit dragon

Dragon hit.
Dragon hits you for 89 damage.
What do you want to do now?

/use healing potion

Healing Potion heals you for 50 HP.
Dragon hits you for 54 damage.
What do you want to do now?

Yeah, that can go.

I'm usually full of ideas but I'm really tired now.
 

Callate

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No, don't do the Dovahkiin again, for Pete's sake. The shouting/dragon souls thing was fine, even kind of neat at points, but a) it was very much tied into the specific story that Skyrim wanted to tell, and b) it was entirely pulled out of Bethesda's nether regions, just like the Nerevarine of Morrowind. I'm sure they can come up with something similarly interesting for the next game, but tying themselves down to the previous game would not be a positive choice.

Personally, I'd be thrilled if they did something with Elsweyr, the homeland of the Khajit, but I'd not hold my breath. (C'mon, a desert full of purring, stealthy libertines? You know you want that as your playground.)

As I work on my second playthrough of Skyrim, I find myself wishing more and more for more intense testing and fleshing-out of mechanics and plotlines, even if it comes at the cost of a smaller map and less things to do. Playing as a dual-wielding swordswoman with ridiculous levels of Enchantment and Smithing skills worked really well; playing as a more magic-centered character, while it has its perks, really highlights how poorly certain things were considered. The wards and the magearmor mechanic in particular are a bad joke; it's like every magician in the world has nightmares about that first arrow in the neck before they get their defenses up, or worse, the knockdown attack that makes their entire repertoire meaningless. Really, for all the poisons and endurance and magicka draining and intricate patterns of strategy one could use to beat an opponent, nothing- nothing- beats hitting them hard, fast, and often until they die. They block? Harder, faster, and more often. They use wards? That will slow you down for about three seconds. Summoned or reanimated minions? Ignore them, aim for the summoner. Multiple opponents? Sneak attack them until there's few enough left that you can hit them hard, fast, and often without getting your rear end cut off.

Alchemy is kind of fun, but it's ridiculous that in a game where nearly every town has an alchemist there's so little information available about what reagants do. I cannot believe that every shop owner got their start wandering around the countryside eating giants' toes and deadly nightshade. Surely someone writes these things down? In a way other than two ingredients on a scrap of paper? Similarly, it's ridiculous that you can't start gleaning extra effects from all that sampling until you have 50 fricking points of Alchemy skill- this should be the first perk on the tree. By the point you're that invested, seeking the ingredients you need should be the priority, not nibbling on weird things you found floating in rivers.

And lockpicking? F@#$ me, did anyone actually waste their hard-earned perks on making it easier not to break widely available tools that cost about seven gold a pop? For the possible future investment in getting more gold and treasure, by which point it will be irrelevant? Some things should just come from skill levels, not investing those few and invaluable perks.

...Sorry, I can rant on about Skyrim at length (clearly). And a good part of that is how enjoyable the game is, and how that makes some of the flaws stick out so baldly.

For the TL:DR crowd, my most salient points: don't re-use the dovahkiin, go somewhere interesting, focus on quality/testing over quantity.
 

likalaruku

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Next ES game is Elder Scrolls Online.

::sigh:: Still waiting for Skyrim GOTY edition. Late to the party, but it will be fully patched with all the goodies.
 

SajuukKhar

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likalaruku said:
Next ES game is Elder Scrolls Online.
Wrong.

ESO is a side-game, saying its the next real Elder scrolls game is like saying Fallout:New Vegas was Fallout 4, it is not.