How similar are the Elder Scrolls games to Fallout 3?

[Zhukov]

Alternative title: "Would I like Skyrim?"

...

See, I'm trying to decide whether I should be getting in on the tidal wave of Skyrim hype, but I have never played an Elder Scrolls game before. However, I have played Fallout 3 and have heard many people compare it too Oblivion, sometimes even calling it "Oblivion with guns."

Thing is, I was rather ambivalent about Fallout 3. On the plus side, it had an absolutely lovely setting and aesthetic. Wandering the Capitol Wasteland actually felt like, well... like exploring a devastated wasteland. Sadly, the combat was dull, the animation was crummy, the RPG elements were meaningless, you quickly ended up drowning in equipment and supplies, and all the dungeons looked the same.

The final and, for me, fatal, flaw was the complete lack of focus. Sure, there a huge map to explore and a colossal amount of content, but it came at the cost of any and all focus. You never really got to know any of the characters or develop any lasting attachments to anything. It made the whole game feel shallow and non-engaging.

So, my question is, to what extent do these criticisms apply to the Elder Scrolls games? Are they essentially the same game with a fantasy setting, or are those comparisons completely off the mark?

Because, and I hate to say this, from what I've seen so far, Skyrim looks dispiritingly like Fallout 3 with all the interesting bits swapped out for the same tired old Tolkien-esque stuff. Oh, and with dragons. Awesome dragons. Awesome dragons like Tolkien had.

 

[Tanakh]

So, my question is, to what extent do these criticisms apply to the Elder Scrolls games? Are they essentially the same game with a fantasy setting, or are those comparisons completely off the mark?

Because, and I hate to say this, from what I've seen so far, Skyrim looks dispiritingly like Fallout 3 with all the interesting bits swapped out for the same tired old Tolkien-esque stuff. With dragons. Dragons like Tolkien had.

Skyrim, AFAIK, is very different to the previous ES games. From what i read in your post, you should buy it, they made changes to suit the general public and lucky you those changes bring it closer to what you seem to want.

 

[imnot]

Skyrim is proberly more similar to Fallout that oblivion in terms of gameplay (besides the laz0rs) The boring dungeons is because they where randomly computer generated in FO3 and Oblivion but skyrim has (I think) around 150 hand crafted ones, also, fucking dragons.

 

[lacktheknack]

Skyrim is proberly more similar to Fallout that oblivion in terms of gameplay (besides the laz0rs) The boring dungeons is because they where randomly computer generated in FO3 and Oblivion but skyrim has (I think) around 150 hand crafted ones, also, fucking dragons.

I'm pretty sure that randomly generated dungeons were ditched after Daggerfall. Play the games twice, the dungeons are the same every time.

Anyways, Fallout 3 and Oblivion are the same in terms of interface, and absolutely nothing else. However, the lack of focus is just inherent to Bethesda games in general.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Long Version:

With each successive title Bethesda makes, including expansions and DLC, they always improve on things that people seemed to think were lacking.

That said... Bethesda just don't do emotional investments well, Fallout 3 tried to make things personal, but in a very hamfisted way.

I love TES series and Fallout 3/NV because of their adventure aspects... everything else to me is secondary. I love exploring, unearthing stories and history, finding new things and completing quests. But what TES and Fallout doesn't have is emotional investment.

Actually, I might have to dig at that a little deeper, as it's not totally true. In TES Oblivion, when venturing into the Shivering isles (the expansion) the main focus of the story was around the "Mad God" called Sheogorath. Through the quest, I actually started to like the character of Sheogorath and his struggle against the forces of Order (Jyggylag (?)). After a specific plot point I actually felt sorry for him and then things finally drew to a close and It was actually a small bit moving.

Now it wasn't a serious emotionally charged story, but it hit it's mark and I was satisfied with how they handled it.

In fallout 3, though I hold no affections to any of the characters, the relationship the Dad was okay and it was a decent driving force for the main plot... but the end didn't stick for me. I will say that the Companion Character that is Dogmeat made me care... but mainly due to pre-defined affection for the dog from Fallout 1. Point Lookout (DLC quests) had a good story, though not as emotionally investing as Shivering Isles in Oblivion, it was intriguing enough to drive me forward.

TLDR

If you really want a game where you care for characters, and follow the plot as part of an emotional investment... Skyrim is not for you. Despite small decent steps at giving players something deeper to cling to, the games are never on par with story driven games like Dragon Age, Mass Effect or The Witcher.

If you like Adventuring, Questing and rising up from nothing to become a Hero or a Tyrant in a richly realised world... Skyrim is likely a game you will enjoy.

 

[imnot]

Skyrim is proberly more similar to Fallout that oblivion in terms of gameplay (besides the laz0rs) The boring dungeons is because they where randomly computer generated in FO3 and Oblivion but skyrim has (I think) around 150 hand crafted ones, also, fucking dragons.

I'm pretty sure that randomly generated dungeons were ditched after Daggerfall. Play the games twice, the dungeons are the same every time.

Anyways, Fallout 3 and Oblivion are the same in terms of interface, and absolutely nothing else. However, the lack of focus is just inherent to Bethesda games in general.

Oh no I meant when they made the game, not diffrent everytime.

 

[JesterRaiin]

They are similar in

So, my question is, to what extent do these criticisms apply to the Elder Scrolls games? Are they essentially the same game with a fantasy setting, or are those comparisons completely off the mark?

Nope. There's big difference. Morrowind and Oblivion are filled with living, thriving cities with plenty of inhabitants, quests and stuff. Unfortunately, it's mostly generic and repetitive content. Fallout is rater empty but most NPCs at least look somewhat differently. For me it's quantity vs quality.

I expect Skyrim to follow this tradition : it will be big, boring product, possibly bugged and unstable. However, after two or three months Bethesda will provide patches and modders - their marvelous creations. That'll change this experience into something interesting.

 

[lovest harding]

Thing is, I was rather ambivalent about Fallout 3. On the plus side, it had an absolutely lovely setting and aesthetic. Wandering the Capitol Wasteland actually felt like, well... like exploring a devastated wasteland. Sadly, the combat was dull, the animation was crummy, the RPG elements were meaningless, you quickly ended up drowning in equipment and supplies, and all the dungeons looked the same.

The final and, for me, fatal, flaw was the complete lack of focus. Sure, there a huge map to explore and a colossal amount of content, but it came at the cost of any and all focus. You never really got to know any of the characters or develop any lasting attachments to anything. It made the whole game feel shallow and non-engaging.

All of these complaints can be levied against Oblivion with a fair amount of accuracy (of course the lack of focus is personal opinion as I love how the lack of focus gives me plenty of opportunities to role play).

But Skyrim is an entirely new game (just like Oblivion was an entirely new game from Morrowind). It's hard to recommend something that can't be played yet. I think overall, though, there should be some substantial changes.
Animations seem to be improved. Dungeons as well. Combat is a bit more active and hits look like they actually affect enemies now. Of course, that's all going off the 20 or so minute gameplay video Bethesda released.

The one thing that won't change is the lack of focus. The point of Elder Scrolls is that you can do anything you want. That's the biggest draw of the game (where they give you an entire world to play in and do what you want). I think there's more incentive now to complete the main quest though (as I'm assuming that most of the dragon words and dragons, whose souls you need to perform the dragon words, will likely be tied to the story, albeit they've said there is no end to the dragons so they should spawn infinitely and randomly if we take what they've said at face value).
They're trying to make more character attachments too with the introduction of relationships, but as the post I quote below says, personal relationships and emotional value isn't Bethesda's strong suit.

Also, I'm going to quote this post because it speaks the truth and you should definitely read it:

Long Version:

With each successive title Bethesda makes, including expansions and DLC, they always improve on things that people seemed to think were lacking.

That said... Bethesda just don't do emotional investments well, Fallout 3 tried to make things personal, but in a very hamfisted way.

I love TES series and Fallout 3/NV because of their adventure aspects... everything else to me is secondary. I love exploring, unearthing stories and history, finding new things and completing quests. But what TES and Fallout doesn't have is emotional investment.

Actually, I might have to dig at that a little deeper, as it's not totally true. In TES Oblivion, when venturing into the Shivering isles (the expansion) the main focus of the story was around the "Mad God" called Sheogorath. Through the quest, I actually started to like the character of Sheogorath and his struggle against the forces of Order (Jyggylag (?)). After a specific plot point I actually felt sorry for him and then things finally drew to a close and It was actually a small bit moving.

Now it wasn't a serious emotionally charged story, but it hit it's mark and I was satisfied with how they handled it.

In fallout 3, though I hold no affections to any of the characters, the relationship the Dad was okay and it was a decent driving force for the main plot... but the end didn't stick for me. I will say that the Companion Character that is Dogmeat made me care... but mainly due to pre-defined affection for the dog from Fallout 1. Point Lookout (DLC quests) had a good story, though not as emotionally investing as Shivering Isles in Oblivion, it was intriguing enough to drive me forward.

TLDR

If you really want a game where you care for characters, and follow the plot as part of an emotional investment... Skyrim is not for you. Despite small decent steps at giving players something deeper to cling to, the games are never on par with story driven games like Dragon Age, Mass Effect or The Witcher.

If you like Adventuring, Questing and rising up from nothing to become a Hero or a Tyrant in a richly realised world... Skyrim is likely a game you will enjoy.

 

[DEAD34345]

Skyrim is proberly more similar to Fallout that oblivion in terms of gameplay (besides the laz0rs) The boring dungeons is because they where randomly computer generated in FO3 and Oblivion but skyrim has (I think) around 150 hand crafted ones, also, fucking dragons.

I'm pretty sure that randomly generated dungeons were ditched after Daggerfall. Play the games twice, the dungeons are the same every time.

Anyways, Fallout 3 and Oblivion are the same in terms of interface, and absolutely nothing else. However, the lack of focus is just inherent to Bethesda games in general.

Oh no I meant when they made the game, not diffrent everytime.

That would be procedural generation, but I'm pretty sure that's not true either. If I remember correctly, the dungeons in Oblivion were technically hand-crafted, but they were made out of identical segments (I think they called them modules?) that were combined to produce different dungeons. This allowed them to make a ton of "hand-crafted" dungeons, but left them feeling very samey since they were basically made of the same parts mixed up in different ways.

I don't know if Skyrim will be doing the same thing (I hope not).

OT: Oblivion and Fallout 3 are very similar in many ways (Oblivion with guns is not far off at all), but for some reason I just never got into Fallout like I did with The Elder Scrolls games. The world and quests just seemed less interesting to me, and although they nailed the desolate wasteland atmosphere very well, a desolate wasteland is not a very fun place to be, so if anything that made me enjoy the game even less.

I'd say to give Oblivion or Morrowind a go, because disliking Fallout 3/NV doesn't necessarily mean you won't like TES, and Skyrim probably won't be a vast departure for the series.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Skyrim is proberly more similar to Fallout that oblivion in terms of gameplay (besides the laz0rs) The boring dungeons is because they where randomly computer generated in FO3 and Oblivion but skyrim has (I think) around 150 hand crafted ones, also, fucking dragons.

I'm pretty sure that randomly generated dungeons were ditched after Daggerfall. Play the games twice, the dungeons are the same every time.

Anyways, Fallout 3 and Oblivion are the same in terms of interface, and absolutely nothing else. However, the lack of focus is just inherent to Bethesda games in general.

Oh no I meant when they made the game, not diffrent everytime.

Actually they did make them manually...by recycling a bunch of segments over and over and fitting them together differently. That's why you start to get a bad case of deja vu after a little while.

EDIT: damn ninjas

If what I heard is correct, then Skyrim is going to do away with that. Still, I wouldn't hold my breath for a more focused narrative. The Elder Scrolls series has always primarily been about freedom of exploration and creating your own fantasy persona. There's always an overarching story, but it's entirely up to the player if they want to follow it. I've played Morrowind more times than I can count, and I have never completed the main quest. I always end up getting sidetracked exploring the land and raiding bandit hideouts.

 

[AlternatePFG]

This applies to Oblivion in particular more than Fallout 3 to be honest. If you didn't like Fallout 3 for those reasons, you're going to hate Oblivion. As for Skyrim, it's a little unfair to make any assumptions as the game hasn't came out yet, but I really doubt it'll be very different.

Edit: Really, don't let anyone tell you different, Fallout 3 those problems, but it was actually a major improvement from Oblivion in those areas.

 

[Altorin]

The most major difference between Elder Scrolls and Fallout is the levelling system.

In Fallout 3, you gain experience for everything you do and when you reach certain experience point total you level up, get more hit points and better skills and perks

In Elder Scrolls you use your skills, and as you use them, they level up. The skills are tied to different attributes (similar to the SPECIAL attributes), and when you gain enough skillups in your major skills, you gain a level, get extra hit points, and get to increase your attributes based on which skills you used.

In Oblivion, the only perks you got weren't tied to character level, but rather skill level - every 25 points in a skill you got a perk with that skill. In Skyrim, that's changing slightly with a branching "perk tree" for each skill.

How the level up process works in Skyrim I don't know, but I have seen videos where skills are levelled up through use, so it's probably the standard Elder Scrolls fare

 

[imnot]

Skyrim is proberly more similar to Fallout that oblivion in terms of gameplay (besides the laz0rs) The boring dungeons is because they where randomly computer generated in FO3 and Oblivion but skyrim has (I think) around 150 hand crafted ones, also, fucking dragons.

snip

Ah I think I may have confused the dungeons with the actual map, which is definately randomly made

 

[Solo-Wing]

Well the only thing that stuck me as the same for Fallout 3 and Oblivion were the tutorial areas. In fallout 3 you start at the Vault and in Oblivion it is the Prison. And both followed the same formula. Start by making your appearence, Name, and gender. then a bit later you choose your skills and such. then at the end you get the option of changing anything you did in it before being kicked into the Open world.

And the open world is the same I guess. travel around looking for towns with NPC's then ask for the quests and such to progress.

The most major difference between Elder Scrolls and Fallout is the levelling system.

In Fallout 3, you gain experience for everything you do and when you reach certain experience point total you level up, get more hit points and better skills and perks

In Elder Scrolls you use your skills, and as you use them, they level up. The skills are tied to different attributes (similar to the SPECIAL attributes), and when you gain enough skillups in your major skills, you gain a level, get extra hit points, and get to increase your attributes based on which skills you used.

In Oblivion, the only perks you got weren't tied to character level, but rather skill level - every 25 points in a skill you got a perk with that skill. In Skyrim, that's changing slightly with a branching "perk tree" for each skill.

How the level up process works in Skyrim I don't know, but I have seen videos where skills are levelled up through use, so it's probably the standard Elder Scrolls fare

Yeah I agree here. The level up system is far different. And I much prefer it anyways.

 

[imnot]

Skyrim is proberly more similar to Fallout that oblivion in terms of gameplay (besides the laz0rs) The boring dungeons is because they where randomly computer generated in FO3 and Oblivion but skyrim has (I think) around 150 hand crafted ones, also, fucking dragons.

I'm pretty sure that randomly generated dungeons were ditched after Daggerfall. Play the games twice, the dungeons are the same every time.

Anyways, Fallout 3 and Oblivion are the same in terms of interface, and absolutely nothing else. However, the lack of focus is just inherent to Bethesda games in general.

Oh no I meant when they made the game, not diffrent everytime.

Actually they did make them manually...by recycling a bunch of segments over and over and fitting them together differently. That's why you start to get a bad case of deja vu after a little while.

EDIT: damn ninjas

If what I heard is correct, then Skyrim is going to do away with that. Still, I wouldn't hold my breath for a more focused narrative. The Elder Scrolls series has always primarily been about freedom of exploration and creating your own fantasy persona. There's always an overarching story, but it's entirely up to the player if they want to follow it. I've played Morrowind more times than I can count, and I have never completed the main quest. I always end up getting sidetracked exploring the land and raiding bandit hideouts.

From what I have heard Oblivion had like 10 dungeo nmakers and skyrim has about 40 or something, they also make sure each dungeon is fairly unique, and often tells a story, besides after the e3 video of the barrow, I wouldnt mind if they all looked like that XD

 

[geK0]

My advice: give Oblivion a try. You can probably get it in the bargain bin for $10.00 right now.

I enjoyed the game very much , but it seems like all your criticisms apply to it (boring dungeons, rpg elements, dull combat, dull animations by today's standards). People compare the two games because they use the same engine, but they felt different enough to me; it's like comparing L4D to Half life or Team Fortress.
Despite the game's flaws, I found it to be very immersive, challenging and fun; although the aesthetic and story are a little generic.

 

[thiosk]

I didn't like fallout.

Not enough good loot.

Sure I had a pile of old world cash, and a plunger collection to be proud of, but it was nothing like the rivers of skulls I collected in oblivion and morrowwind. Filled a room, and littered it with gems.

 

[JimmyC99]

Best advice, go buy Oblivion and Morrowind. (Oblivion is all platforms, Morrowind is (PC and Xbox) i recommend the Anniversary Edition or GOTY editions there pretty cheap now, probably get both for under £20.

 

[Hop-along Nussbaum]

Choosing between Fallout series and the Elder Scrolls series is like a parent being forced to choose which child he loves most.

They are both equally awesome in their own right, and I would be hard pressed to choose a favorite. Grrr. Okay, Elder Scrolls gets the slight edge, because of the unlimited choices that you get to make in the game from character creation to good vs. evil.

Fallout also has a great creation system, but it's a bit more limited than ES.

Just buy it. You'll like it.

 

[Clewin]

yep - Bethesda tends to be good at graphics but relatively bad at animation, with character animation seeming to be very stiff. Quests never have variable outcomes, characters have about 3 lines of dialog (including quest givers), and you never really get emotionally involved in any character (as in, the only character I cared about in any game they have created died in the exposition of Oblivion). Name a movie with a cast of 1000s each with 1-3 lines of dialog and only one main character... the reason none exist is because character development is essential. If I want a game with no/wooden character development and all action, I play a shooter - an RPG should be more than that.

Most of the time their systems have some exploitable flaw. In Morrowind I just flew above the monsters and strafed spells down on them. In Oblivion I turned invisible and summoned creatures to do my fighting. Oblivion's difficulty scaled way to fast for me, so I was forced into that gimmick build about 1/8th of the way through the game, as well (a mod came out after I finished the game that made sane difficulty scaling, but it was too late for me). Fallout was better balanced in that respect.

As for Skyrim, I'd say I'm waiting on the fence. Bethesda's in-house game engines have been notoriously bug ridden, as in, they don't work on many PCs (and if you got Daggerfall to work the first time, you're lucky - it took me 4 PCs to find one it didn't crash on startup, and that was after returning the software as defective 2x), while their add-ons to an existing engine (NetImmerse and GameBryo, but the latter is just an update and re-branding of the former) have had issues with memory leaks, random crashes, and other bugs.