How SW:TOR is a major step BACKWARDS for MMOs

[MetroidNut]

I despise MMOs. I love Mass Effect. Therefore, I fully approve of the Mass Effect-ification of TOR. I don't see voice acting as limiting freedom, and I would definitely argue that a Mass Effect-like system for interacting with NPCs serves to increase freedom, not the other way around. As for most of the OP's other points, it seems to me (though I'm admittedly not too qualified to say this) that they're mostly specific features that aren't being carried over from Star Wars: Galaxies. But, of course, all this has been said before in this thread.

So my summarized point? I think TOR is going to be a good MMO, suffering from most of the same flaws as other games in the genre but improving upon storytelling and characters, as is Bioware's style.

 

[GeoPB]

Can anybody tell me where I can get a copy of this game, I want to see for myself and compare my opinion with the OP...

...Oh no wait...

Seriously, what can you expect from Bioware Star Wars game,the whole premise of the films were evil versus good. That's what Role-playing is about, playing a role of someone else, you just get to choose how that someone else deals with things.

 

[Denamic]

Being a part of the storyline sacrifices freedom?
As opposed to just witnessing events from afar and then kinda just partaking in it?
And having voiced lines sacrifices freedom?
As opposed to having an 'accept' and 'deny/cancel' button?
Everyone having the same companions affects YOUR character's freedom how?

I was going to address all your 'points' more in-depth, but it dawned on you that you're just another anti-fanboy, so I'm not going to bother.
Suffice to say that the basis of your arguments is incredibly stupid, because other MMO's character 'freedom' are actually just them treating you like an unimportant grunt by not actually giving you a role in the storyline.

 

[Danzaivar]

I love how you are basically moaning that it's a step backwards because it's not Star Wars Galaxies, a game which is freaking ancient for by MMO standards.

I totally agree with you btw, if they redid SWG with todays graphics and made it a bit more accessible it'd make for a great game. Just the irony of your statement was brilliant.

 

[Keava]

You know what? You don't have to play it! Amazing, isn't it?

If any of those reasons limits your Roleplaying (i can do bold statements too![sorry, i'll go get my coat]) then frankly you are a crappy roleplayer so go nitpick on something else like actual game mechanics, graphics, or whatever you kids find fancy this days.

Jeez Keava, I know your a lot better than that. You don't have to attack him like he's attacking everyone else. He's just sharing some info while criticising it, which is perfectly acceptable on any forum. And saying "you don't have to play it" is just silly.

Please read this - http://plover.net/~bonds/stupidresponses.html#better

Maybe. But overtime one get's really sick about people complaining about roleplaying in MMOs when they don't even bother to try and do it. Had my share of it while playing WoW and other MMOs. Someone would always moan how the game limits them, how they can never get into any roleplay while all they actually did was bunny-hopping around people and spamming "LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!"

And i will always stand firm by the "Don't like it - don't buy it/look at it/listen to it" philosophy. If people would just consider that option we would get much less moaning on the forums and less topics about random celebrities being pathetic for whatever reason. Too often people go out full rage just because they bought something they don't like and try to blame the whole world for it, while in the end it's their, as a customers, responsibility to avoid things they might be disappointed with.

 

[Colonel Alzheimer's]

Any ONE of these could put a game on shaky ground... but to do all of them at once? This puts SW:TOR firmly in the realm of an action/adventure game that happens to have online co-op.

So, all the strengths of single player with the benefits of co-op? Sounds great! Sign me up.
[sub][sub]Yeah, I read the rest of the post. This just happened to be the first thing I thought.[/sub][/sub]

 

[Quad08]

Meh, I'm going to try the game out regardless. Heck, I'll probably have fun with it too

And isn't that what really matters?

 

[Karlaxx]

Hey, good one. The long text nearly got me.

Ooh, ooh, next tell everyone how COD:Black Ops is a step backwards for FPSs because you liked GoldenEye more.

Oh, and how Fallout:New Vegas is a step backwards because Oblivion was totally better.

Yes, and how Minecraft is a step backwards because it's just singleplayer Dwarf Fortress.

Oh man, you should do a weekly editorial on this.

I heartily approve.

On Topic, my opinion: Fanboy whining is fanboy whining. Different explosions for different kinds of people (or however that saying goes), and if you liekd KOTOR it'll probably be worth the good old college try.

I'll still drop it the second I get my Dark Millenium or a Planetside 2. Bioware is good devs, but not that good.

 

[luckshot]

Can anybody tell me where I can get a copy of this game, I want to see for myself and compare my opinion with the OP...

...Oh no wait...

Seriously, what can you expect from Bioware Star Wars game,the whole premise of the films were evil versus good. That's what Role-playing is about, playing a role of someone else, you just get to choose how that someone else deals with things.

the general opinion in the op's post is that role playing is about roleplaying YOUR OWN CHARACTER, and not the company's character.

for example: if bioware's idea of a fighter is just a big tough meat head as portrayed in the movies, then everything/choice/action is tainted by that.

if i can build my own mental backstory: say a student (archival studies major) got into some serious trouble with the establishment and got sent to a prison planet (lets say kessle). At the prison he learned he had a natural talent for fighting/survival (fast reflexes, strength...).
Eventually my student is released with a new views on life and pursues his education in fighting in an intelligent way made possible by his years of dedicated study.
maybe he then joins up with a group of mercenaries........


i think you get the point, i can craft beautiful and wondrous back stories in my head that make more sense to role play (to me -the important person in this transaction)than even the character archetype generator created by the world's smartest ape. In the end for me and the op we neither want nor need anyone filling in for our imaginations

/shooting star & harp sound

edited some errors

 

[Vrach]

Started to write a proper response but honestly cba, not one thing you wrote (at least in the TLDR, cba reading the whole thing, sorry) has any ground and everything you mentioned is a step forward and an improvement on the MMO system (based on WoW/Guild Wars at least, which I have experience with and WoW's good for comparison as the current MMO 'leader'). You say "few options, step back" but you're not using absolutes, you're comparing, it's not about "few" it's about "fewer", and everything you mentioned is far more options than WoW/GW give you.

But hey, if it's not your thing, that's fine. Some people don't like having a voice in games and prefer it Freeman style. That's cool, but it still doesn't change the fact that everything you mentioned are improvements and not steps back.

Being a part of the storyline sacrifices freedom?
As opposed to just witnessing events from afar and then kinda just partaking in it?
And having voiced lines sacrifices freedom?
As opposed to having an 'accept' and 'deny/cancel' button?
Everyone having the same companions affects YOUR character's freedom how?

I was going to address all your 'points' more in-depth, but it dawned on you that you're just another anti-fanboy, so I'm not going to bother.
Suffice to say that the basis of your arguments is incredibly stupid, because other MMO's character 'freedom' are actually just them treating you like an unimportant grunt by not actually giving you a role in the storyline.

Seems we think alike

 

[Smokeydubbs]

It isn't a devolution of the RPG it's just the trend. There is a reason WoW is so big, it's simple, easy to get into, and action oriented to be fun. There is a reason all those open-ended, do anything you want, and role play to your hearts content don't have millions of subscribers. TOR is going to compete against WoW, the best way to do that is copy the formula but do it better.

While I do partly agree that RPG is losing it's meaning, it doesn't mean the games wont be fun for the masses. If role playing sparks your fancy, don't play the WoW type of games.

 

[Xanadu84]

Most of your complaints sound like your ignoring the limitations of the medium. If you want absolute, unbridled character freedom, you are going to need to play a tabletop RPG with a competent GM who can make stuff up on the fly, at your request, in moments. And even at that absolute apex of freedom, your still probably looking at several pre-determined story moments, and a choice of character class limited to iconic professions. Limitations are what focus a story.

 

[Blind Sight]

My God, I get it that you might be a little annoyed with what you've seen of the Old Republic, and it's fine for you be prepared to be disappointed (lord knows I already complained about the Videodrome remake enough on this forum) but you know, you should actually PLAY the game before you pass complete judgement on it. Doing so before you've played it, based off of released information just makes you look somewhat uninformed and whiny. Once again, the Big Lebowski's "Well, that's just your opinion, man" applies.

The thing though, you couldn't even count the number of people that consider there opinion fact. My opinion, this is just typical hype. New game comes along, "ohaeynewgamenewgamenewgameforgetwowiquit", they play it, it's successful for a bit, but then ultamitly next thing you know it's being played on Private Servers, and everyone's back to the one that's been there the longest. There's a reason why WoW's been around for 5 or 6 years I think, and the Warcraft franchise itself for for atleast 10+.

Indeed, true, people do get a bit too excited on both sides. However, I find looking forward to a game a bit different then tearing up a game you've never even played. Like I said, it's fine to say 'yeah, I'm not looking forward to it, these are my reasons, etc.' or 'I can't wait for this game, it LOOKS (key word there) great, here are my reasons, etc.'. The problem for me comes when people hear stuff like the fact you can't play an elf or dwarf in the new Dragon Age and instantly shrug it off as them 'dumbing down the game' and such. I'm just saying a game should neither be praised nor torn apart until the product is actually out and playable, I capitalized 'LOOKS' for a reason. Because that's all you're doing, LOOKING at the game, so how do you have any idea how it's going to play? Pre-determined reviews of games make no sense to me haha.

 

[AVATAR_RAGE]

Don't be so harsh on a game you have not played yet. Chill out if you don'y like it don't buy it.

 

[kouriichi]

you rant is kinda pointless. If you want complete freedom, go play a table top game.
Until i manage to produce a game, you wont be seeing a good alignment selection system for a while.

 

[Aethren]

While I can see your point, the fact that you called Morrowind, and hell, even Oblivion, (RPGs) the same as Mario, of all things, has led me to stop caring for said points.

 

[LogicNProportion]

A second post from me pertaining to this.

To the people saying that WoW was bad for RPing, I had three years of beautiful RP experience on the game's Rp and RP/PVP servers.

Skirata of the Stormwind Cavalry, betrayed by one of the guild leaders when accusing the leader of being corrupt, left a broken old man, returned as guild master of the Luna Wolves.

Ended the tyranny of bowing down to kings. There was only the light.

 

[GeoPB]

the general opinion in the op's post is that role playing is about roleplaying YOUR OWN CHARACTER, and not the companies character.

for example: if bioware's idea of a fighter is just a big tough meat head as portrayed in the movies, then everything/choice/action is tainted by that.

if i can build my own mental backstory: a say a student (archival studies major) got into some serious trouble with the establishment and got sent to a prison planet (lets say kessle). At the prison he learned he had a natural talent for fighting/survival (fast reflexes, strength...).
Eventually my student is released with a new views on life and pursues his education in fighting in an intelligent way made possible by his years of dedicated study.
maybe he then joins up with a group of mercenaries........


i think you get the point, i can craft beautiful and wondrous back stories in my head that make more sense to role play (to me -the important person in this transaction)than even the character archetype generator created by the smartest ape. In the end for me and the op we neither want nor need anyone filling in for our imaginations

/shooting star & harp sound[/quote]

Well sure, thats all fine and dandy, but this is a star wars game, its a homage to all the great characters of the saga. And I just don't agree that it is a huge step backwards, maybe it doesnt want to be a typical RPG, if anything Bioware is making its own damn genres up!

Plus, who doesn't want to play as a bounty hunter and have their own freaking ship. Each to their own I suppose.

 

[Nazulu]

You know what? You don't have to play it! Amazing, isn't it?

If any of those reasons limits your Roleplaying (i can do bold statements too![sorry, i'll go get my coat]) then frankly you are a crappy roleplayer so go nitpick on something else like actual game mechanics, graphics, or whatever you kids find fancy this days.

Jeez Keava, I know your a lot better than that. You don't have to attack him like he's attacking everyone else. He's just sharing some info while criticising it, which is perfectly acceptable on any forum. And saying "you don't have to play it" is just silly.

Please read this - http://plover.net/~bonds/stupidresponses.html#better

Maybe. But overtime one get's really sick about people complaining about roleplaying in MMOs when they don't even bother to try and do it. Had my share of it while playing WoW and other MMOs. Someone would always moan how the game limits them, how they can never get into any roleplay while all they actually did was bunny-hopping around people and spamming "LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!"

Not maybe, you keep level headed and respond normally. If your so sick of seeing complaints then you probably should start ignoring it. There is no point getting hysterical, it's not like he is destroying your gaming experience, and you will just receive a very similar response that will shit you even further. Is that what you want? Your basically going to start a flame war with your approach.

And I will always stand firm by the "Don't like it - don't buy it/look at it/listen to it" philosophy. If people would just consider that option we would get much less moaning on the forums and less topics about random celebrities being pathetic for whatever reason. Too often people go out full rage just because they bought something they don't like and try to blame the whole world for it, while in the end it's their, as a customers, responsibility to avoid things they might be disappointed with.

It's not moaning, it's criticising, did you read that website I gave you? We all have different beliefs and we all like to share them all the time (like your doing in this thread), with your logic your seen as moaning yourself.

'Don't like it, don't buy it' doesn't solve anything and never will, people criticise because they enjoy it. Everything is on that website I gave you.

Meh, I'm going to try the game out regardless. Heck, I'll probably have fun with it too

And isn't that what really matters?

It's not about that at all. Dastardly is pointing out what he believes are faults or hinders in what so many praise as perfect, and he makes good points because it's not the game I'm looking for it seems. I'll have to wait and do my own research before deciding.

 

[luckshot]

the general opinion in the op's post is that role playing is about roleplaying YOUR OWN CHARACTER, and not the companies character.

for example: if bioware's idea of a fighter is just a big tough meat head as portrayed in the movies, then everything/choice/action is tainted by that.

if i can build my own mental backstory: a say a student (archival studies major) got into some serious trouble with the establishment and got sent to a prison planet (lets say kessle). At the prison he learned he had a natural talent for fighting/survival (fast reflexes, strength...).
Eventually my student is released with a new views on life and pursues his education in fighting in an intelligent way made possible by his years of dedicated study.
maybe he then joins up with a group of mercenaries........


i think you get the point, i can craft beautiful and wondrous back stories in my head that make more sense to role play (to me -the important person in this transaction)than even the character archetype generator created by the smartest ape. In the end for me and the op we neither want nor need anyone filling in for our imaginations

/shooting star & harp sound

Well sure, thats all fine and dandy, but this is a star wars game, its a homage to all the great characters of the saga. And I just don't agree that it is a huge step backwards, maybe it doesnt want to be a typical RPG, if anything Bioware is making its own damn genres up!

Plus, who doesn't want to play as a bounty hunter and have their own freaking ship. Each to their own I suppose.[/quote]

the op could have phrased it better i agree and made it clear that this was purpose made to express and discuss his opinion, but i think on the escapist that can kind of be assumed

that's all great, BUT i don't want to play one of the movies key characters, i want to play my own character in their universe how would 'Sandal Soilsift' exist in the star wars universe, what kind of friends would he have, what would he do to survive, and in my opinion allowing for that allows me to get more involved in the game than seeing the world through the generic "han solo, boba fett, luke, vader...." tinted glasses