How to not be garbage at fighting games?

[DarklordKyo]

I've been a fan of fighting games for a while now, but I've always been absolute garbage at them. I recently broke in a copy of Guilty Gear Xrd Revelator that I got during the PSN sale, booted up the pre-story episodes (because it's kinda too late to even hope to play online), and, I got my ass handed to me by the easiest opponent you'll ever get in a fighting game (it didn't matter that I was playing on Maniac, even a braindead two year old can beat fighting game arcade modes).

It's not just that, my execution was strangely terrible as well. I couldn't even do something as simple as an instant air dash, which I could do relatively easily in Blazblue (which, allegedly, plays oddly compared to other fighting games).

Can anyone give me any tips on not being garbage?

P.S. Also, don't say practice makes perfect. I'm not playing it online, the general consensus is that games in general are piss easy nowadays, and there are plenty of people, like Maximilian Dood, that can master the mechanics of any fighting game in five minutes. I shouldn't need to practice, I should just be normal.

 

[CaitSeith]

P.S. Also, don't say practice makes perfect. I'm not playing it online, the general consensus is that games in general are piss easy nowadays

Does that also apply to arcade ports now?

 

[DarklordKyo]

Does that also apply to arcade ports now?

I doubt the likes of Guilty Gear or Blazblue are as hard as the likes of Virtua Fighter or Street Fighter 3.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

To IAD you wanna return to neutral before inputting the second forward motion, 956 is the reliable way to do it, and yes practice does help.



While games in general are easy nowadays, as with any rule, there will always be exceptions. GG and BB when played at a high level are a LOT more complex than sf or VF, but also contain an entirely isolated type of complexity such that you won't instantly be good at them if you haven't had experience with games in their syle.

 

[DarklordKyo]

To IAD you wanna return to neutral before inputting the second forward motion, 956 is the reliable way to do it, and yes practice does help.

Thing is that it was like second nature last I played Blazblue.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The way it works in BB is such that if you input it during jump startup it still comes out cause BB has a larger fame buffer than gg. Basically, BB saves the jump input longer than how long jump startup lasts for so no prescision is necessary. GG used to have no buffer at all so you had to just master parfect link timing but with Xrd it gave you a couple of frames of buffer to work with.

 

[Vanilla ISIS]

Pick one and only one fighter and never switch.
Most people who are really good are only really good when playing a specific character.
I know a guy who can destroy you as Vega in Street Fighter but if he picks anyone else, he sucks.

Also, yes, practice makes perfect, especially when it comes to harder games like Guilty Gear (you can't beat the arcade mode on harder difficulty settings without having some experience, you just can't, it's not Tekken).
You need to have the moves and combos memorized to the point of them being muscle memory.
You need to learn the animations of the other characters so that you can anticipate their moves based on the first few frames.
Some people also learn the sound effects that the characters make when doing particular moves.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

You need the sound effects because when you get a counterhit the game yells COUNTER which is useful to be aware of due to counter-specific combos that only work on counter. BB has that even more with fatal counters. Also, a lot of chars tend to fly off screen and sound is the only thing you have to use to figure out what your foe is doing when they are off screen so it is a generally good thing.


While I wouldn't say one game, you do wanna stick to one style of game and to a main char in that, between 3D, airdasher, old school capcom basic stuff and whatnot. Airdashers like GG tend to be very deep, with systems that you must memorize to do anything, while simultaneously having MUCH more lenient input precision demands. It's more of a mental test than pure dexterity reactions and reads.

 

[Weaver]

What input device are you using? I find trying to play any modern game with a controller's stick is nearly impossible, D-pads are better (i prefer the PS4 controller) but you might want to look around for a purpose made fight stick or fight pad. It depends on the person but some people really swear by them.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Comparing yourself to Maximillian is a bad idea. The guy have been playing fighting games for 20 years. He already has a solid foundation. It's like comparing yourself to rookie of a Major sports team. Sure they were just signed to a team and it's their first year, but they have been playing their sport for a long time.

OT: So, if you want to get good at a fighting game there are a couple things you need to do first.

A) Try all the characters. Get a feel for which ones you like, and which you don't. Make a list of the enjoyable ones. Just go into traning, check out the move list and go nuts. Do this for every character.

B) Discover your prefered playstyle. Want to rush down and be in your opponents face all the time? Do you prefer zoning and keeping your opponent out? Do you prefer grapplers and prefer to be patient for big damage? Find out what style fits you most.

C) Take what you learned from A and B and pick a character to main. This is the character you will sit down and learn. The character that when someone challenges you to a duel, you will pick.

D) Go into traning mode with your new found main. Now before you do anything, find your Anti air button. Set the dummy to jump, stand slightly in front of him and press all the buttons one at a time. Trust me, this will save you more times than you will count. It is arguably your most button.

E) Test your normals. Find the range for your normal moves ( P K S HS DUST if i remember correctly). Try to get a feel from how far these moves will hit. Don't worry you'll have this memorized in time.

F) test your Specials. Find out what each do, and when you would use them ( Ex: combo ender). Have a general idea of the imputs but don't worry about memorizing it, it'll become muscle memory in due time.

G)Learn some basic combos. Unless you are intending to go pro, memorizing overly long character specific combos wont do you any good. Learn short effective comboes you can do consistently.

H) Have fun. Seriously this is the most important thing. Have fun doing all of this. If you aren't having fun, the whole process is pointless. People say Fighting game players are masochist. And it is somewhat true. You will lose a lot before you get better. Especially if you play online. Everyone who has gotten good at fighting games lost a whole lot and used those loses to drive them to get better.

 

[DarklordKyo]

What input device are you using? I find trying to play any modern game with a controller's stick is nearly impossible, D-pads are better (i prefer the PS4 controller) but you might want to look around for a purpose made fight stick or fight pad. It depends on the person but some people really swear by them.

I bought a Hori Real Arcade Pro V4 Hayabusa fightstick a while ago, and I've been stubborn in making it my weapon of choice.

 

[DarklordKyo]

snip

I already have B & C down for the most part. For B, I tend to lean towards rushdown, shotos, and grapplers (with a few exceptions, I did play quite a bit of Naoto in Persona 4 Arena before I settled on Kanji).

Also, admittedly, a number of shotos can primarily be built for rushdown (Yu Narukami, Ragna the Bloodedge, and Sol Badguy being standouts in this), but I made a distinction because a lot of shotos tend to be Ryu-esque jack of all trade hybrids between rushdown and zoning. Not as powerful as either at their specialties, but has the adaptability to make up for it.

 

[DarklordKyo]

Well, practice might not necessarily make perfect, but it's still the best chance of getting there.

Every fighting game's a bit different, but the principle pillars of success involve precise input execution and timing. This won't happen until the player builds muscle memory for those actions, which typically involves lots of practice. Some days are better than others, and there is such a thing as over-practicing in any given session. When you have to start thinking too much about something, and your precision and/or timing starts suffering, chances are taking a break could help.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

My suggestions are fairly general but essential to getting better at these games:

- Pick 2 characters that you like and feel have good potential. You want to ideally master 2 characters as opposed to being "okay" with more. The reason I don't suggest 1 is that you might find you cannot use that particular character, not to mention a little variety is nice. It's also helpful if you do fight other players.
- You don't like the mantra "practice makes perfect", fine. But you would be rewarded by practising the special moves for those 2 characters you picked. You need to be able to pull them off on demand. Not with luck, not some of the time, not on a good day, but when you need to.
- Special moves affect a certain "area". It might be a forward cone, and upward column, a slow moving projectile. If you can get a feel for these properties you can better decide when to use them. It's an instinctual thing to see these openings of when to apply which attack.
- Don't be afraid of "weaker" attacks. Frequently, weaker, quick attacks can be much better than slower, more powerful ones. If you can get in two light taps while their guard is down and/or stun/outrange your opponent, do it.
- Learn the rules of the game. Throws, stuns, range, dodging, understanding how controls and mechanics interact gives you more opportunities to hurt the opponent.

Beyond that, it's not something that can be spoken. Reacting to your opponent is critical but not something one can advise on. The single most important thing is to get really good with 1-2 characters such that you can pull off their moves reliably. It can't be explained when or how to judge each situation but that is what the really good players understand. They know when to block, to jump attack, to crouch attack, to special move. For each thing an opponent might do, there's a correct action for you and judging it correctly (and more importantly, pulling it off) comes from playing.

If your game has a practise mode, easy mode, unlimited time or infinite health mode/cheat, put it on and jump in and just keep trying the moves. Try them from both sides of the screen, weak and hard. Don't be afraid of remapping your controls if you can and you feel it's useful, it is very useful to put the right attacks on the right buttons. Good luck and most importantly, have fun

 

[Glongpre]

Be "cheap".

Opponent won't block low?
Sweep, sweep, sweep...
or
low normal into combo, low normal into combo...

Opponent blocks too much?
throw, throw, throw, until he starts catching on.

Practice.

Learn match ups. Really helps to know which normals are great in what situations, and what a good gameplan would be.

Practice, cause technical things don't just become easier overnight.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

There's nothing cheap about basic high low throw mixup, it is most fundamental and the cornerstone of games like GG. You must understand that chars have fully unblockable unavoidable setups in GG, ones that lead to more unblockable setups if enough meter is available. Compared to that a simple plain low/throw mixup is boring XD.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

snip

I already have B & C down for the most part. For B, I tend to lean towards rushdown, shotos, and grapplers (with a few exceptions, I did play quite a bit of Naoto in Persona 4 Arena before I settled on Kanji).

Also, admittedly, a number of shotos can primarily be built for rushdown (Yu Narukami, Ragna the Bloodedge, and Sol Badguy being standouts in this), but I made a distinction because a lot of shotos tend to be Ryu-esque jack of all trade hybrids between rushdown and zoning. Not as powerful as either at their specialties, but has the adaptability to make up for it.

That thing you call a "shoto" doesn't exist at all in games like GG or BB or Persona. There do exist chsrs with upward invincible moves, easy stuff and projectiles that travel forward BUT because the gamaes allow you to block in the air, airdash (sometimes multiple times) and run with speed that covers the full screen size in a second, the types of projectiles that simply move forward on a straight line are not gonna zone anybody out.


These projectiles are there to open a path for them to approach from, they throw out the projectile and start a blockstring as it is being blocked or airdash behind it and try to airgrab the other guy who is trying to airdash over it too. Basically, no such type of char can zone, at all, not even a little bit. The best one at it would be Ky in Xrd with his portals but still he is better off just cornering you and doing 236D>236H into mixups all day or yrcing a stunedge and flying in behind it.


If you wanna picture zoning, think of Nu in BB who can fire swords from 6 different angles and cancel them on whiff and fly all over to avoid being pinned down or Aigis in persona that has as a normal button a 2B which fires 8 bullets that cover a 140 degree angle infront above and behind her, and as it is a nornal button she can input other buttons after it and do specials moves (which fire more bullets or let her literally fly at you wrapped in fire) . That, that is zoning in these games, a single hit Zio from narukami gets chuckled at, as Aigis does her 2B, one of the bullets hits it cancelling it out, then couple others counterhit you, then she special cancels into megidofire for a full combo due to the counterhit increasing hitstun.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Just pick Terumi and win, ggwp

Honestly OP, you do need to practise even if you don't like the idea of practise makes perfect cuz in fighting games that's pretty much a fact. Like I picked up a few tricks like how if you walk forward you can do the Z motion super easy, at least in BB but when a friend of mine was trying to pick up BB I couldn't really help him master the controls and inputs y'know? It took me forever to get the Z motion down but I can do it on demand now. Double quarter circle supers still give me trouble though.

Check your cancels and fatal counters, it is easier to get the correct input when the move you're using has very few cancels. Like Hazama's 6A and 6B can only be cancelled into the kick super so it's actually pretty easy to do since you can't input something else. But then you have to land the chains after that ridiculous hitstun though so that takes some learning.

Oh also check out what dodges your preferred character has. Like Terumi has 6B that looks terrible but dodges highs and is invulnerable to lows and cannot be grabbed. It gets beat by every mid in the game though and it's super slow but when you read that Tager spamming the grab super on wakeup and you get the fatal counter corner combo it's amazing.

Also check what moves other characters have. Like your average Hakumen player is gonna spam his Drive because he think's he's the master at reading your moves. Hello this is the classic move where you run in and throw him cuz the counter doesn't work on throws. Like i've ran at some of them, jumped over them and hit them in the back while they're still doing the counter move cuz Terumi's land speed is ridiculous.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Just pick Terumi and win, ggwp

Honestly OP, you do need to practise even if you don't like the idea of practise makes perfect cuz in fighting games that's pretty much a fact. Like I picked up a few tricks like how if you walk forward you can do the Z motion super easy, at least in BB but when a friend of mine was trying to pick up BB I couldn't really help him master the controls and inputs y'know? It took me forever to get the Z motion down but I can do it on demand now. Double quarter circle supers still give me trouble though.

Check your cancels and fatal counters, it is easier to get the correct input when the move you're using has very few cancels. Like Hazama's 6A and 6B can only be cancelled into the kick super so it's actually pretty easy to do since you can't input something else. But then you have to land the chains after that ridiculous hitstun though so that takes some learning.

Oh also check out what dodges your preferred character has. Like Terumi has 6B that looks terrible but dodges highs and is invulnerable to lows and cannot be grabbed. It gets beat by every mid in the game though and it's super slow but when you read that Tager spamming the grab super on wakeup and you get the fatal counter corner combo it's amazing.

Also check what moves other characters have. Like your average Hakumen player is gonna spam his Drive because he think's he's the master at reading your moves. Hello this is the classic move where you run in and throw him cuz the counter doesn't work on throws. Like i've ran at some of them, jumped over them and hit them in the back while they're still doing the counter move cuz Terumi's land speed is ridiculous.

Hazama has no other special move that uses his B button on the ground so I don't think you can get any wrong move from attemptin to input a houtenjin, no mater what button you're canceling into the houtenjinlol.


Also, after houtenjin, you wanna do stance dash into green C followup, not the chain. Finally, Terumi is +5 after a blocked 6B and he gets to keep blockstrigin after it so that is a great button all around.

 

[beyondbrainmatter]

I've been a fan of fighting games for a while now, but I've always been absolute garbage at them. I recently broke in a copy of Guilty Gear Xrd Revelator that I got during the PSN sale, booted up the pre-story episodes (because it's kinda too late to even hope to play online), and, I got my ass handed to me by the easiest opponent you'll ever get in a fighting game (it didn't matter that I was playing on Maniac, even a braindead two year old can beat fighting game arcade modes).

It's not just that, my execution was strangely terrible as well. I couldn't even do something as simple as an instant air dash, which I could do relatively easily in Blazblue (which, allegedly, plays oddly compared to other fighting games).

Can anyone give me any tips on not being garbage?

P.S. Also, don't say practice makes perfect. I'm not playing it online, the general consensus is that games in general are piss easy nowadays, and there are plenty of people, like Maximilian Dood, that can master the mechanics of any fighting game in five minutes. I shouldn't need to practice, I should just be normal.

There are various areas you have to pay attention to in fighting games. A few are:

-Execution: Knowing your characters moveset and getting the moves down. This also includes engine specific inputs and combo rhythm.
-Information: Things like frame data and match ups.
-Strategy: Things to think about when playing. What do you do with a knockdown? Can you capitalize on cornering your opponent? How do you control space? How is your mixup game?
-Psychology: Less to do with the game and more to do with players heads. Getting a copy of the "Book of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Musashi and/or the "Hereditary Book on the Art of War" by Yagyu Munenori might be useful if you're serious about learning about the psychology of fighting.