How to (NOT) bring fresh new concepts and ideas into gaming. (Or: Why we can't have nice things)

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Frybird

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Following both gaming media and gamer reactions in recent years, i've come to the following conclusion:

- Gamers want more realistic games, but they don't want real scenarios (That's why Six Days in Fallujah failed)

- Or any implications to it that may differ in the slightest from what they see as acceptable (The whole thing about naming the opposing multiplayer teams in the latest Medal of Honor Game)

- Gamers want a more mature approach to storytelling as long as it doesn't involve any mature controversial elements (See Tomb "It's not acceptable to show a criminal modern-pirate-like-scavenger-guy touching a young, frightened girl inappropriately because that is sexist" Raider)

- Gamers want fresh, interesting elements and remixes of common genres as long as they are implemented perfectly from the start and are fine to everyone's taste (That's why Mirrors Edge failed)

- That said, gamers don't want a trial-and-error approach to gameplay, except when they do (That's also why Mirrors Edge failed while Demon's Souls was praised by a majority of hardcore gamers)

- Gamers also don't want to be hold by their hands an helped by the mechanics throughout the game (That's why Prince of Persia 2008 and Enslaved equally failed).

- Gamers want a unique experience in both storytelling and gameplay with great graphics that never gets dull and lasts over 20 hours.

- They also expect risky, unique game ideas being turned into multi-million AAA productions.

- Gamers generally expect every smaller, cheaper game to cost at least $5 less than they do.

- They also are only willing to buy a game at full price if it has a long lasting feature-rich multiplayer as well as state of the art 3D graphics.

- Gamers expect a fully featured game that seamlessly implements every ambitious idea or storyline every designer working at the game right from the get-go, releasing one year after the announcement at the latest.

- Gamers don't want to have the option to buy additional content for the game because they will feel FORCED to buy it.

- Gamers are willing to support sequels of ambitious, critically lauded flops despite the obvious concerns of the publisher that it may bring them huge losses. After all, they totally bought and loved the first game when it was in a $3 sale on steam.


I may return with more observations, until that feel free to be offended.
 

Dryk

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I seem to remember that gamers weren't that vocal either way about Six Days in Fallujah, it got killed because the media had a knee-jerk reaction to it and the publishers didn't have the stones to stand up to them.
 

Frybird

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Draech said:
I have to admit. I want a lot of the stuff you said, but what I want is irrelevant to what is reasonable.
looking back, i should've written "expect" instead of "want" in some places...

...as i also would like to see AAA games being risky and innovative, but having a problem with people expecting and moaning about the lack of such things or worse, being unwilling of giving smaller or indie games a shot because they are "too ugly"

Gonna fix that.
 

evilneko

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Jun 16, 2011
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Frybird said:
Following both gaming media and gamer reactions in recent years, i've come to the following overly-broad, sweeping generalizations, some of which are untrue or are perpetrated by the press rather than gamers.
There, I fixed it! 'cus, you know, that's really all you did and many are inaccurate.
 

Frybird

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evilneko said:
Frybird said:
Following both gaming media and gamer reactions in recent years, i've come to the following overly-broad, sweeping generalizations, some of which are untrue or are perpetrated by the press rather than gamers.
There, I fixed it! 'cus, you know, that's really all you did and many are inaccurate.
Well, obviously i'm dealing with generalizations, but pretty much all the conclusions i made purely on what i feel is a major general consensus on forums and comments on the sites i frequent, including this one.
 

Nouw

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Frybird said:
- They also are only willing to buy a game at full price if it has a long lasting feature-rich multiplayer as well as state of the art 3D graphics.
They do? I mean, sure the MP one is true for some but I feel as if the state of the art 3D graphics comment came out of nowhere.
 

Frybird

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Nouw said:
Frybird said:
- They also are only willing to buy a game at full price if it has a long lasting feature-rich multiplayer as well as state of the art 3D graphics.
They do? I mean, sure the MP one is true for some but I feel as if the state of the art 3D graphics comment came out of nowhere.
Heard alot of comments along these lines when Rayman:Origins came out
 

GangstaPony

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Nouw said:
Frybird said:
- They also are only willing to buy a game at full price if it has a long lasting feature-rich multiplayer as well as state of the art 3D graphics.
They do? I mean, sure the MP one is true for some but I feel as if the state of the art 3D graphics comment came out of nowhere.
Certain gamers with their abhorrent obsession with ludicrously high end graphics played at absurd resolutions are to blame. Oh screw gameply, we need teh graphix!
 

Nouw

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Frybird said:
Heard alot of comments along these lines when Rayman:Origins came out
Could you link me to the comments? I don't doubt you I just want to read them myself.
GangstaPony said:
Certain gamers with their abhorrent obsession with ludicrously high end graphics played at absurd resolutions are to blame. Oh screw gameply, we need teh graphix!
Heh I assumed these were ones we actually wanted.
 

rob_simple

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This is only going to get worse as gaming becomes more popular and every dickhead thinks they have the one true voice in gaming (see: every thread to the tune of 'I won't be buying X because they've changed Y so you shouldn't buy it either!')

The only time I have a problem with these idiots is when they actually force the developers to bend to the will of a very small but very vocal majority, extending development time while they make arbitrary adjustments when the rest of us just want to play the damn game. (See: Sonic fanboys giving Sega shit about making Sonic's eyes green; Sucker Punch changing Cole's appearance in the Infamous games then changing it back after some petty motherfuckers bitched about it.)

Mirror's Edge was still pretty shit, though.
 

Frybird

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Nouw said:
Frybird said:
Heard alot of comments along these lines when Rayman:Origins came out
Could you link me to the comments? I don't doubt you I just want to read them myself.
I'm obviously too lazy to go though several websites, so here a few choice words out of this home turf, wich actually did generally a bit better than most:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.328443.13384301
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.350774.13882536
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.328443.13384468
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.350774.13883672
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.336903.13609530
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.322666.13212709
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.322666.13213930
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.322666.13217063
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.351655.13923657

and so on


I also can remember a discussion i had with another guy here who argued that Full Price for Rayman Origins was overpriced due to the team behind it being smaller and 2D graphics being "easier", but couldn't find it right away
 

Nouw

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Frybird said:
Nouw said:
Frybird said:
Heard alot of comments along these lines when Rayman:Origins came out
Could you link me to the comments? I don't doubt you I just want to read them myself.
I'm obviously too lazy to go though several websites, so here a few choice words out of this home turf, wich actually did generally a bit better than most:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.328443.13384301
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.350774.13882536
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.328443.13384468
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.350774.13883672
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.336903.13609530
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.322666.13212709
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.322666.13213930
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.322666.13217063
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.351655.13923657

and so on


I also can remember a discussion i had with another guy here who argued that Full Price for Rayman Origins was overpriced due to the team behind it being smaller and 2D graphics being "easier", but couldn't find it right away
Cheers. And I suppose it's strange for me since I'm not knowledgeable on the cost of visuals.
 

DoPo

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Jan 30, 2012
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evilneko said:
Frybird said:
Following both gaming media and gamer reactions in recent years, i've come to the following overly-broad, sweeping generalizations, some of which are untrue or are perpetrated by the press rather than gamers. Also gamers are a hivemind and I totally didn't incorporate the views of totally different people and called them the same then slapped "my observation" on top.
There, I fixed it! 'cus, you know, that's really all you did and many are inaccurate.
I minor addition.

And, OP, stop calling us a hivemind. We prefer the "Legion", thank you very much. Our friends call us "Shitload".
 

Sixcess

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Frybird said:
- Gamers want a more mature approach to storytelling as long as it doesn't involve any mature controversial elements (See Tomb "It's not acceptable to show a criminal modern-pirate-like-scavenger-guy touching a young, frightened girl inappropriately because that is sexist" Raider)
There's nothing 'mature' about the Tomb Raider reboot.

I'm going to quote Grant Morrison here. Back when comics were in the midst of their 'dark and gritty' phase he wrote an issue of Animal Man in which the hero meets the writer, who talks about why the hero's family was killed in an earlier storyline. The writer replies:

"Pointless violence and death is 'realistic'. Comic books are 'realistic' now."

"We thought that by making your world more violent we would make it more 'realistic', more 'adult'. God help us if that's what it means."


There's a place for genuine mature story telling in video games, but an action adventure series like Tomb Raider is not that place, and I for one don't trust Ron 'Rape' Rosenberg to deliver a story that rises above the level of an 80s exploitation flick.
 

Lovely Mixture

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Frybird said:
- Gamers want more realistic games, but they don't want real scenarios (That's why Six Days in Fallujah failed)
You can't say it failed commercially or critically if it was never released. It hasn't even been officially cancelled.
 

Elamdri

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Sixcess said:
Frybird said:
- Gamers want a more mature approach to storytelling as long as it doesn't involve any mature controversial elements (See Tomb "It's not acceptable to show a criminal modern-pirate-like-scavenger-guy touching a young, frightened girl inappropriately because that is sexist" Raider)
There's nothing 'mature' about the Tomb Raider reboot.

I'm going to quote Grant Morrison here. Back when comics were in the midst of their 'dark and gritty' phase he wrote an issue of Animal Man in which the hero meets the writer, who talks about why the hero's family was killed in an earlier storyline. The writer replies:

"Pointless violence and death is 'realistic'. Comic books are 'realistic' now."

"We thought that by making your world more violent we would make it more 'realistic', more 'adult'. God help us if that's what it means."


There's a place for genuine mature story telling in video games, but an action adventure series like Tomb Raider is not that place, and I for one don't trust Ron 'Rape' Rosenberg to deliver a story that rises above the level of an 80s exploitation flick.
It's nice that you base your entire opinion of a game that isn't even out on a Kotaku article. That's the equivalent of basing your entire political opinion on an episode of Glenn Beck.
 

Sixcess

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Elamdri said:
It's nice that you base your entire opinion of a game that isn't even out on a Kotaku article.
Actually I don't.

Penny Arcade Report

Would you like me to assume that he 'misspoke' twice, in two separate interviews with major video game sites? In any case, what he says in both of those pieces merely underlines my initial reaction to the trailer.
 

Kahunaburger

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Frybird said:
- They also expect risky, unique game ideas being turned into multi-million AAA productions.
This. AAA games are going to be safe, they're going to be same-y, and they're probably going to suck as a result. More on this exciting story as it develops.

Elamdri said:
It's nice that you base your entire opinion of a game that isn't even out on a Kotaku article.
Or, you know, quotes from the designer.
 

Elamdri

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Kahunaburger said:
Elamdri said:
It's nice that you base your entire opinion of a game that isn't even out on a Kotaku article.
Or, you know, quotes from the designer.
Yes, a quote from the designer, taken out of context and blow out of proportion.