A lot of people were not satisfied with both Bleach and Naruto ending so what I'm asking now is how would you guys change the ending.
How would you change the Naruto/Bleach ending
- Thread starter PapaGreg096
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Naruto- Wouldn't make Madara so OP that they have to bring a greater OP villain to take him down and be the true final bosses.
Bleach- Not sure how this ended since I didn't read the manga but I would had ended when Ichigo defeated Aizen.
Bleach- Not sure how this ended since I didn't read the manga but I would had ended when Ichigo defeated Aizen.
Never read Bleach, so I can't help you there, but Naruto? Oh boy, here we go...
1) Make the ninja war into an actual war. It started out with promise. Naruto, the character that always saves the day, was sidelined. Time for the other ninja to step up. For the first day, this seemed to be happening. But then Naruto got free and it became, "Naruto saves the day war" right away.
Now granted, Naruto had to get involved eventually. We know this. But he should have stayed away for longer. Or, instead of that, there should have been more chapters around the other ninja--be they Leaf, Sand, Cloud, whatever--fighting. Each of the Konoha 11 (that's what they're called, right?) should have gotten one chapter EACH of them just fighting. Not teaming up with their teammates like Shikamaru, Ino, and Choji did. Each one of them should have gotten a separate chapter of them just cutting loose.
2) Speak of the trio, cut the entire damn fight with Asuma. We've already been through this before. Shikamaru even says, "Don't bother saying your goodbyes, because we've already heard them." You know what fight would have been much more interesting? Neji, Hinata, and Hinata's dad against Neji's father. I was really looking forward to that, but no. Never happened.
3) For the love of God, give Tenten something to do! All she does in the war is literally comment on the fights that are happening. I thought maybe she was going to help save Naruto when his tailed beast was pulled out, because she had the jar that still had some of his chakra. It even teased that she had an idea. But nothing came from that. Poor girl was sentences to commentator for the entire war.
4) Kabuto needed to die. Not have his little soul-searching episode and then fall asleep because of Itachi. He needed to die. Period.
5) Obito gets no redemption either. No Naruto doing his usual, "He has a good heart, so he's a good guy" stuff that he did with Nagato. Kakashi can feel bad for Obito, but that's it. And even Kakashi didn't think twice to bring him down. Stop trying to make me feel sympathy for a guy who is practically responsible for every death in the series. Let him be like Kakazu and Hidan--evil. Just plain evil, with no one trying to get him to change his mind.
6) Madara. Oh man, here we go. This is where the story really fell apart. As was already pointed out, Madara was so over powered that the only way to beat him was to bring in a new villain--and that villain had to be the god of the Naruto world. That is B.S. writing, plain and simple. Madara going toe to toe with the Five Kage? Okay, cool. Him utterly stomping them? Pushing it, but okay. Him deciding that he doesn't have to follow the rules of the reanimation jutsu? Crap. Him being more than a match for the first four Hokage, including Hashirama, the guy that beat him? Bullshit.
Orochimaru should never have gotten involved. He should have stayed dead. That way, no resurrecting the other Hokage. Thus, Madara doesn't have to fight the dream team, making him even more overpowered. Instead, this is where Naruto should have shown up. As Madara is wiping the floor with everyone, Naruto arrives and we get a fight that rivals his brawl with Pain. Everyone else could focus on the white Zetsus and the Biju statue, and stay far away. The god lady would never show up.
And what is Sasuke doing during this time? He goes after Obito. Kakashi has already wounded him, but Obito gets away after wounding Kakashi. Now, Sasuke finds him and it's a show down between the last two Uchiha. And Sasuke has plenty of reason to do this. Obito has been manipulating him from the very beginning, and after Sasuke's chat with his brother, maybe he can finally come to his senses and realize who the real villain is.
Or Sasuke could die. I'm cool with him dying too.
7) As for the actual ending--the chapter where we see everyone years later--I'm find with it. I thought it was a nice way to show what happened to everyone, although I would have liked a bit more info on Tenten. She seemed kind of left out of the group.
1) Make the ninja war into an actual war. It started out with promise. Naruto, the character that always saves the day, was sidelined. Time for the other ninja to step up. For the first day, this seemed to be happening. But then Naruto got free and it became, "Naruto saves the day war" right away.
Now granted, Naruto had to get involved eventually. We know this. But he should have stayed away for longer. Or, instead of that, there should have been more chapters around the other ninja--be they Leaf, Sand, Cloud, whatever--fighting. Each of the Konoha 11 (that's what they're called, right?) should have gotten one chapter EACH of them just fighting. Not teaming up with their teammates like Shikamaru, Ino, and Choji did. Each one of them should have gotten a separate chapter of them just cutting loose.
2) Speak of the trio, cut the entire damn fight with Asuma. We've already been through this before. Shikamaru even says, "Don't bother saying your goodbyes, because we've already heard them." You know what fight would have been much more interesting? Neji, Hinata, and Hinata's dad against Neji's father. I was really looking forward to that, but no. Never happened.
3) For the love of God, give Tenten something to do! All she does in the war is literally comment on the fights that are happening. I thought maybe she was going to help save Naruto when his tailed beast was pulled out, because she had the jar that still had some of his chakra. It even teased that she had an idea. But nothing came from that. Poor girl was sentences to commentator for the entire war.
4) Kabuto needed to die. Not have his little soul-searching episode and then fall asleep because of Itachi. He needed to die. Period.
5) Obito gets no redemption either. No Naruto doing his usual, "He has a good heart, so he's a good guy" stuff that he did with Nagato. Kakashi can feel bad for Obito, but that's it. And even Kakashi didn't think twice to bring him down. Stop trying to make me feel sympathy for a guy who is practically responsible for every death in the series. Let him be like Kakazu and Hidan--evil. Just plain evil, with no one trying to get him to change his mind.
6) Madara. Oh man, here we go. This is where the story really fell apart. As was already pointed out, Madara was so over powered that the only way to beat him was to bring in a new villain--and that villain had to be the god of the Naruto world. That is B.S. writing, plain and simple. Madara going toe to toe with the Five Kage? Okay, cool. Him utterly stomping them? Pushing it, but okay. Him deciding that he doesn't have to follow the rules of the reanimation jutsu? Crap. Him being more than a match for the first four Hokage, including Hashirama, the guy that beat him? Bullshit.
Orochimaru should never have gotten involved. He should have stayed dead. That way, no resurrecting the other Hokage. Thus, Madara doesn't have to fight the dream team, making him even more overpowered. Instead, this is where Naruto should have shown up. As Madara is wiping the floor with everyone, Naruto arrives and we get a fight that rivals his brawl with Pain. Everyone else could focus on the white Zetsus and the Biju statue, and stay far away. The god lady would never show up.
And what is Sasuke doing during this time? He goes after Obito. Kakashi has already wounded him, but Obito gets away after wounding Kakashi. Now, Sasuke finds him and it's a show down between the last two Uchiha. And Sasuke has plenty of reason to do this. Obito has been manipulating him from the very beginning, and after Sasuke's chat with his brother, maybe he can finally come to his senses and realize who the real villain is.
Or Sasuke could die. I'm cool with him dying too.
7) As for the actual ending--the chapter where we see everyone years later--I'm find with it. I thought it was a nice way to show what happened to everyone, although I would have liked a bit more info on Tenten. She seemed kind of left out of the group.
All I hope is that One Piece ends up getting a satisfactory ending.
Because appearenty there was a news that Oda himself came to meet a huge One Piece fan who was dying of cancer or whatever illness and Oda decided to tell him the ending and Oda was trying his best to hold back tears.
Because appearenty there was a news that Oda himself came to meet a huge One Piece fan who was dying of cancer or whatever illness and Oda decided to tell him the ending and Oda was trying his best to hold back tears.
Well, I stopped watching after season 2-ish of Bleach, but what I would do is keep the damn focus of the show on the spirits and their interaction with humanity. Not the every increasing Shonen-esque fighting simulator shit that they did.
Never watched Naruto, it looked terrible to me, and nothing I've seen of it has convinced me otherwise.
Never watched Naruto, it looked terrible to me, and nothing I've seen of it has convinced me otherwise.
For Bleach? I would have cut the back and forth of the preceding fights to give the big-bad room to actually fight for more than two chapters. For Naruto, keep the ninja war and the fight with what-her-face ninja mother completely separate, and probably cut down the chapter count by half.
Babies ever after is typical manga wrap-up, and is best served by characters you actually care about. Which means not dragging out the final arc so long that it has nowhere to properly end.
Babies ever after is typical manga wrap-up, and is best served by characters you actually care about. Which means not dragging out the final arc so long that it has nowhere to properly end.
With Bleach, there is a very simple way to fix the ending; they should have let it end with Ichigo losing his powers for good.
In the first chapter of the series, Ichigo goes on about wanting to get rid of his powers because he finds them as more of nuisance than a gift. With the final chapter being the hero making the ultimate sacrifice and giving up the one thing that he wanted to do away with, only to realize that he has come to accept it long ago, it makes for a fitting end. Also, the last page where Rukia fades away from Ichigo's gaze as the last remnants of his power fades, was one of the best final pages I've ever seen in manga.
With Naruto, I didn't like the final "years into the future" chapter (700, I believe) because all of the protagonist's kids were really unlikable. Their designs sucked and it was very apparent that if they ever decided to continue this series with these kids, it would amount to nothing but "rich kids in peace time" problem arcs (which they seem to be going that route with Boruto).
Honestly, once Naruto and Sasuke inherited the powers of a God and essentially became Demi-gods, I knew that there was not going to be a final installment where Naruto is an adult and where he finally earns the title of Hokage, like many people were speculating. Unless they were able to defeat Madara and not have to deal with a damn Goddess, this series was just about done once they put all the major baddies to rest.
In the first chapter of the series, Ichigo goes on about wanting to get rid of his powers because he finds them as more of nuisance than a gift. With the final chapter being the hero making the ultimate sacrifice and giving up the one thing that he wanted to do away with, only to realize that he has come to accept it long ago, it makes for a fitting end. Also, the last page where Rukia fades away from Ichigo's gaze as the last remnants of his power fades, was one of the best final pages I've ever seen in manga.
With Naruto, I didn't like the final "years into the future" chapter (700, I believe) because all of the protagonist's kids were really unlikable. Their designs sucked and it was very apparent that if they ever decided to continue this series with these kids, it would amount to nothing but "rich kids in peace time" problem arcs (which they seem to be going that route with Boruto).
Honestly, once Naruto and Sasuke inherited the powers of a God and essentially became Demi-gods, I knew that there was not going to be a final installment where Naruto is an adult and where he finally earns the title of Hokage, like many people were speculating. Unless they were able to defeat Madara and not have to deal with a damn Goddess, this series was just about done once they put all the major baddies to rest.
Naruto, I was fine with. I honestly really didn't give a shit more. Though I suppose I would have made Naruto lose that stupid ass aura thing that he has had for the last few issues. And his future version would have looked less awkward too.
For Bleach, I stopped in the last 20 or 30 issues, and I have no idea how it ended up the way it did. But considering that the bad guy wanted to unify all three worlds, making it so that no one could pass between them without dying/hollowfying.
For Bleach, I stopped in the last 20 or 30 issues, and I have no idea how it ended up the way it did. But considering that the bad guy wanted to unify all three worlds, making it so that no one could pass between them without dying/hollowfying.
Note: Skip to the end for a shorter version.
Unlike most in the thread, I actually enjoyed and vaguely followed Bleach and I can tell you that fixing the ending of it is fundamentally a bad idea -- the problems of Bleach lie in the industry in which it was created, as evidenced by One Piece and Naruto. See, every good story has to have an end, the problem is that when you're making something like a manga for a weekly like Shounen Jump, you get picked up for a few weeks while they test how good your piece is, what it adds to the sales of the comic, etc etc.
The problem this brings is similar to the problems faced by The Legend of Korra -- in the middle of creating what would be the middling/ending points of your series you'll get a request for more. So you have to make more and that means changing the story to fit within the time frame you believe you'll keep the job. And like most 'time assumed' jobs, the moment that your product isn't selling or gelling well with the rest and adds nothing profit wise to the equation, its bye bye.
Add to that the fact that -- for the most part, the industry is only JUST NOW (somewhat) ceasing to revolve around 'kawaii ugu' girls and panty upshots and you've got a shifting industry eager to change, remove and cut off what don't work no more.
In short, Bleach's problem wasn't its ending now. It was that it didn't end after they got rid of Aizen, the fan favorite villain. Kubo got to take down Aizen and then probably was told 'nope, we want more' and kept it going.
Not just that, but the rules of the universe continually changed in ways that made the more 'serious' fans care less and less. Remember Sword Art Online and Attack on Titan? Their major draw ins for many of the older and more serious fans were that people could actually die -- and not just side characters and mooks but major, serious characters which means the story could turn on its head at any given moment.
That interesting plot point was removed from both shows and -- hysterically in all three cases it was in the same exact way: They made their MC the next coming of Christ and removed all likeability and tension.
"Oh, Kirito can bring back the fucking dead AI that's an immensely complicated program that he has no possible way of knowing about?! BUT CAN'T TURN THE LOG OFF BUTTON BACK ON OKAY SURE LEMME JUST LEAVE RIGHT NOW."
"What was that, everyone's a titan now?! Great, cause THATS what I wanted to see."
"Oh, Ichigo's a shinigami, now he's a quincy and the only interesting and second most sexy character is stuck in a chair. Good fuckin god."
(And in each case, if the writers themselves had gone for it and really dedicated themselves to upping the tension, these would have been fantastic twists rather then asspulls. But they ended up being asspulls.)
More then likely Kubo was while building towards a better enemy (See: Soul King) and was told, 'okay, shutter this shit cause it ain't selling no more'. This is even hinted at more (in my opinion) by the return of fan favorite Grimmjow, perhaps as one last bid to save things or get a few fans back on reading. No avail.
As a writer, you have to either keep up the tension and likability or shorten the story. Hence why you've more then likely skipped everything up til now -- you wanted a short, sweet, satisfying conclusion because there's no real tension in this post and you don't have the time or patience to read that flowery crap.
Power creep and over-extension of length kills tension in a story and manga industry that's already looking to cut out the eye that offends it. The endings were quick cop outs is all. More then likely both artists were already either interested or planning to do different things since more tension (Tokyo Ghoul), action (One Punch Man which cashes in on the bright emotional energy and high action movement of the Marvel series) or nostalgia (Boku no Hero Academia for Hunter x Hunter fans + also cashing in on Marvel's bright superhero genre) orientated manga are taking center stage over the original 'big three'.
Here's hoping the best to both Kubo and Kishimoto.
For Bleach.
1. To finish it: Either end Bleach after Aizen's defeat.
2. To extend it slightly longer: Have Aizen take the throne of the Soul King almost directly after his capture ((which is something that Kubo may have been leading up to as we see Aizen possibly breaking some of the locks which kept him in the chair))
3. To keep it going for a while: Have the Soul King twist revealed earlier, have you-know-who be the traitor some people thought he would be, get the throne and have Aizen glower, get pissed and end up having Ichigo try and take on the Soul King, fail, Aizen get even angerer because 'This is literally what I've been training you for and you fuckin failed me' and see where it goes from there to possibly having them team up in the end.
Also, make the comparison between Ichigo as an anarchist and Aizen as a wannabe king a little sharper by Aizen bitching about not getting the throne and Ichigo deciding to destroy it since its the cause of all this.
Or, lastly, have Aizen pull a Doctor Doom and decide that even being a God is beneath him and aim for even higher after killing the Soul King.
Unlike most in the thread, I actually enjoyed and vaguely followed Bleach and I can tell you that fixing the ending of it is fundamentally a bad idea -- the problems of Bleach lie in the industry in which it was created, as evidenced by One Piece and Naruto. See, every good story has to have an end, the problem is that when you're making something like a manga for a weekly like Shounen Jump, you get picked up for a few weeks while they test how good your piece is, what it adds to the sales of the comic, etc etc.
The problem this brings is similar to the problems faced by The Legend of Korra -- in the middle of creating what would be the middling/ending points of your series you'll get a request for more. So you have to make more and that means changing the story to fit within the time frame you believe you'll keep the job. And like most 'time assumed' jobs, the moment that your product isn't selling or gelling well with the rest and adds nothing profit wise to the equation, its bye bye.
Add to that the fact that -- for the most part, the industry is only JUST NOW (somewhat) ceasing to revolve around 'kawaii ugu' girls and panty upshots and you've got a shifting industry eager to change, remove and cut off what don't work no more.
In short, Bleach's problem wasn't its ending now. It was that it didn't end after they got rid of Aizen, the fan favorite villain. Kubo got to take down Aizen and then probably was told 'nope, we want more' and kept it going.
Not just that, but the rules of the universe continually changed in ways that made the more 'serious' fans care less and less. Remember Sword Art Online and Attack on Titan? Their major draw ins for many of the older and more serious fans were that people could actually die -- and not just side characters and mooks but major, serious characters which means the story could turn on its head at any given moment.
That interesting plot point was removed from both shows and -- hysterically in all three cases it was in the same exact way: They made their MC the next coming of Christ and removed all likeability and tension.
"Oh, Kirito can bring back the fucking dead AI that's an immensely complicated program that he has no possible way of knowing about?! BUT CAN'T TURN THE LOG OFF BUTTON BACK ON OKAY SURE LEMME JUST LEAVE RIGHT NOW."
"What was that, everyone's a titan now?! Great, cause THATS what I wanted to see."
"Oh, Ichigo's a shinigami, now he's a quincy and the only interesting and second most sexy character is stuck in a chair. Good fuckin god."
(And in each case, if the writers themselves had gone for it and really dedicated themselves to upping the tension, these would have been fantastic twists rather then asspulls. But they ended up being asspulls.)
More then likely Kubo was while building towards a better enemy (See: Soul King) and was told, 'okay, shutter this shit cause it ain't selling no more'. This is even hinted at more (in my opinion) by the return of fan favorite Grimmjow, perhaps as one last bid to save things or get a few fans back on reading. No avail.
[HEADING=1]TL;DR[/HEADING]
As a writer, you have to either keep up the tension and likability or shorten the story. Hence why you've more then likely skipped everything up til now -- you wanted a short, sweet, satisfying conclusion because there's no real tension in this post and you don't have the time or patience to read that flowery crap.
Power creep and over-extension of length kills tension in a story and manga industry that's already looking to cut out the eye that offends it. The endings were quick cop outs is all. More then likely both artists were already either interested or planning to do different things since more tension (Tokyo Ghoul), action (One Punch Man which cashes in on the bright emotional energy and high action movement of the Marvel series) or nostalgia (Boku no Hero Academia for Hunter x Hunter fans + also cashing in on Marvel's bright superhero genre) orientated manga are taking center stage over the original 'big three'.
Here's hoping the best to both Kubo and Kishimoto.
[HEADING=1]ON TOPIC[/HEADING]
Ended Naruto with the issue in which the village was attacked by killing Tsunade, having Sakura step up and become Hokage while Naruto and Sasuke teamed up to take out whatever villain they were fighting at that moment (I was literally so annoyed with this thing that I stopped paying attention at this point.)For Bleach.
1. To finish it: Either end Bleach after Aizen's defeat.
2. To extend it slightly longer: Have Aizen take the throne of the Soul King almost directly after his capture ((which is something that Kubo may have been leading up to as we see Aizen possibly breaking some of the locks which kept him in the chair))
3. To keep it going for a while: Have the Soul King twist revealed earlier, have you-know-who be the traitor some people thought he would be, get the throne and have Aizen glower, get pissed and end up having Ichigo try and take on the Soul King, fail, Aizen get even angerer because 'This is literally what I've been training you for and you fuckin failed me' and see where it goes from there to possibly having them team up in the end.
Also, make the comparison between Ichigo as an anarchist and Aizen as a wannabe king a little sharper by Aizen bitching about not getting the throne and Ichigo deciding to destroy it since its the cause of all this.
Or, lastly, have Aizen pull a Doctor Doom and decide that even being a God is beneath him and aim for even higher after killing the Soul King.
Naruto's final page should have been a shot of Naruto hanging in that "everybody living in their dreams" tree thing everybody else was hooked to.
That's the only universe Sasuke and Sakura would've ended up together, anyway. He's just not interested in her, never has been.
I bet their saving that for 10-15 years down the road though. To bring the series back when the coffers run low.
That's the only universe Sasuke and Sakura would've ended up together, anyway. He's just not interested in her, never has been.
I bet their saving that for 10-15 years down the road though. To bring the series back when the coffers run low.
Well, take out Kaguya and I think the Naruto ending was more or less fine. She was just a real asspull Final Boss. There was next to no foreshadowing that she was even a thing. Worse yet, what investment did the audience have in her? None. We don't know who she is. We have no experience or relationship with her. She is nothing to us.
Madara on the other hand has been built up for a long time. We really got a feeling for just how dangerous Madara was considered when merely claiming to be Madara was enough to get all five villages to join forces. Seeing him in action only drove this point home. So the Final Boss should have been him. Then, we could get the fight between Naruto and Sasuke to close the series.
As for Bleach, I think it should have ended with Aizen. Hell, the series almost seems to think that since he was instrumental in defeating Quincy-Hitler. Let the series end with the defeat of Aizen, either with Ichigoe losing his powers, retaining them, or even hinting that his powers aren't truly gone. Call it a day and save us a Kubo years of frustration [footnote]I watched a video that explained how Kubo deteriorated as an artist and explained why. It's pretty obvious he was not a fan of working for Shonen Jump.[/footnote].
Madara on the other hand has been built up for a long time. We really got a feeling for just how dangerous Madara was considered when merely claiming to be Madara was enough to get all five villages to join forces. Seeing him in action only drove this point home. So the Final Boss should have been him. Then, we could get the fight between Naruto and Sasuke to close the series.
As for Bleach, I think it should have ended with Aizen. Hell, the series almost seems to think that since he was instrumental in defeating Quincy-Hitler. Let the series end with the defeat of Aizen, either with Ichigoe losing his powers, retaining them, or even hinting that his powers aren't truly gone. Call it a day and save us a Kubo years of frustration [footnote]I watched a video that explained how Kubo deteriorated as an artist and explained why. It's pretty obvious he was not a fan of working for Shonen Jump.[/footnote].
I would have Naruto end much earlier, that's for sure. The reveals after reveals about who the real villain is got tiresome quickly.
How about less fighting and more focus on story and characters? This applies to both series. After reading chapter after chapter about nothing but fighting, you start to crave for something else.
Naruto should've never introduced Kaguya, or Super-Madara for that matter. Hell, with all these super powerful ninjas, the tailed beasts started to feel insignificant. And making the tailed beasts actually good, but misunderstood creatures? Gimme a break.
And characters becoming even stronger than before, levelling mountains and forests? Booring. They should be ninjas. You know, spies, assassins and saboteurs?
Sasuke should've evolved beyond the emotionless douche that he was, Sakura could've found meaning in studying her ninja arts, instead of chasing off Sasuke. And why the hell would Naruto be a good hokage? What good leadership abilities have we seen him possess? Granted, he's strong as hell, but that just makes him a good soldier, not a leader.
And why would Naruto end up with Hinata in the end? He's never shown romantic interest towards her.
Naruto should've never introduced Kaguya, or Super-Madara for that matter. Hell, with all these super powerful ninjas, the tailed beasts started to feel insignificant. And making the tailed beasts actually good, but misunderstood creatures? Gimme a break.
And characters becoming even stronger than before, levelling mountains and forests? Booring. They should be ninjas. You know, spies, assassins and saboteurs?
Sasuke should've evolved beyond the emotionless douche that he was, Sakura could've found meaning in studying her ninja arts, instead of chasing off Sasuke. And why the hell would Naruto be a good hokage? What good leadership abilities have we seen him possess? Granted, he's strong as hell, but that just makes him a good soldier, not a leader.
And why would Naruto end up with Hinata in the end? He's never shown romantic interest towards her.