How would you reboot the Star Wars Prequel trilogy?
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* Hard reboot the whole franchise - Rewrite the story from scratch and without reference to the original trilogy. Make clear that this is an alternative reimagining of Star Wars and create it from the ground up as such. The most major issue with the prequels is that they only exist to set up the situation we see in A New Hope. By breaking with that, you could create a film trilogy which is more suprising and works on its own merit.
* Change the visual aesthetic - This is a very subjective opinion, but I think while Star Wars pioneered a more "grounded" aesthetic for science fiction films, but we've hit the point where that is basically all we ever see and it's getting boring. I'd like to see a really "heightened" version of Star Wars with an emphasis on strange and beautiful visual imagery and more vivid colour grading rather than the more realistic tone the films usually steered.
* Tighten the focus - A major issue with the prequels is that there's simply too much going on and it lead to an extremely unfocused story. They were trying to be one part political drama, one part war movie, one part personal story about struggling with inner darkness, one part doomed romance. The result is that it's a mess, none of these elements/subplots gets sufficient space to work, and there's no continuous thematic or emotional thread running through the trilogy.
* Storytelling not worldbuilding - This is more a general issue I have with the way Star Wars has evolved over time, but it's particularly prevelant in the prequels because the prequels are basically all worldbuilding. We don't need to know how everything works or where everything comes from, it's okay for things to be mysterious if they're properly rooted in film language and symbolism. For example, noone needed to know how the force worked in the original trilogy, because even if we can't buy the idea of space magic, we can still get that the force is a metaphor for some really basic stuff, like emotional regulation.
Of course, commercially all of this is a terrible idea. The best idea, from a financial standpoint, is to adhere strictly to the most boring, cliche and lazy formula which Star Wars fans have come to expect and to take as few risks as possible. But I think fandom, in that sense, is a problem and it's one we need to get over as a culture. The things you liked as a child aren't sacred, and fandoms kill the things they love when they don't allow them to change or be reimagined.
* Change the visual aesthetic - This is a very subjective opinion, but I think while Star Wars pioneered a more "grounded" aesthetic for science fiction films, but we've hit the point where that is basically all we ever see and it's getting boring. I'd like to see a really "heightened" version of Star Wars with an emphasis on strange and beautiful visual imagery and more vivid colour grading rather than the more realistic tone the films usually steered.
* Tighten the focus - A major issue with the prequels is that there's simply too much going on and it lead to an extremely unfocused story. They were trying to be one part political drama, one part war movie, one part personal story about struggling with inner darkness, one part doomed romance. The result is that it's a mess, none of these elements/subplots gets sufficient space to work, and there's no continuous thematic or emotional thread running through the trilogy.
* Storytelling not worldbuilding - This is more a general issue I have with the way Star Wars has evolved over time, but it's particularly prevelant in the prequels because the prequels are basically all worldbuilding. We don't need to know how everything works or where everything comes from, it's okay for things to be mysterious if they're properly rooted in film language and symbolism. For example, noone needed to know how the force worked in the original trilogy, because even if we can't buy the idea of space magic, we can still get that the force is a metaphor for some really basic stuff, like emotional regulation.
Of course, commercially all of this is a terrible idea. The best idea, from a financial standpoint, is to adhere strictly to the most boring, cliche and lazy formula which Star Wars fans have come to expect and to take as few risks as possible. But I think fandom, in that sense, is a problem and it's one we need to get over as a culture. The things you liked as a child aren't sacred, and fandoms kill the things they love when they don't allow them to change or be reimagined.
I wouldn't and spend the possible funding on making something original. Even if it turns out bad it'd still be more interesting than yet another star wars thing. Nothing needs that many sequels, prequels, reboots and spin offs. There is more star wars than I could possibly want even if I thought star wars was the best thing ever.
By what metric? I'm actually somewhat curious as to what you have in mind here. Most of the love plot of Empire strikes back is pretty much sexual harassment by Han. Besides that it's a bit of a sausage fest, not extraordinarily so for when it was made, but still. Otherwise most of star wars doesn't seem to do much to take any stance that could characterize it as being 'SJW' or not.trunkage said:
You know, time has lessened my dislike of the prequels. About the only thing I would change would be how they handled Anakin in the 2nd and 3rd films - specifically his turn to the Dark Side. For me we spent too much time focusing on the love story between Anakin & Padme and not enough time focusing on Palpatine's corruption of Anakin. In the end it all happened so fast, it was like "Hey Anakin, I know we've barely spoken over the years but I can *totally* do you a solid if you just betray everything you've ever believed and betray everyone you've ever known. You down with that?". It just felt rushed. It felt fake. It felt like the scriptwriters weren't particularly interested in how or why a Jedi could or would fall to the Dark Side.
In a cheesy, kids-cartoon kinda way I actually like Ep1, but Eps 2&3 just miss the mark for me ... and it's a question of focus rather than a question of quality.
In a cheesy, kids-cartoon kinda way I actually like Ep1, but Eps 2&3 just miss the mark for me ... and it's a question of focus rather than a question of quality.
This is sort of like arguing Trek wasn't "SJW" because the Ferengi were clearly a racial stereotype. It's letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, and by that metric, all works will fail to be progressive or "SJW" because they will not meet future standards. Roddenberry was reportedly antisemitic and sexist, but he still did promote a progressive future during his time on the show. It's just a progressive future that's aged.Pseudonym said:
Rocky Horror Picture
Show is a movie that's huge with the LGBT community, even as it now draws criticisms both for the context of the movie itself and the words of its creator being deemed transphobic.
Buffy the Vampire slayer...well, thank Freddie Mercury people finally came around to my way of thinking, but back when the show first came on, it was subject to much praise. A modern look at Buffy reveals a slightly different picture. BtVS may have been the best at the time, but it had a lot of issues with creating strong women, because Joss Whedon has a lot of issues with creating strong women. And people started to criticise him for being incredibly tone deaf.
Speaking of Freddie Mercury, you're looking at a bisexual guy who said and did some things which have drawn flak from the modern LGBT community, because despite being bi, he was a product of his time. not strictly a fiction example, but since Bohemian Rhapsody just came out I'm sure we'll be mulling this one over soon.
Wonder Woman was often "problematic", especially in the early days, because she was put in sexual situations by a creator who had a bondage kink. She was also created because that same man felt women running the world made more sense and is progressive nature did show through. Later incarnations of Dubs have attempted to fix that, with some attempts being better than others. It's still not okay that a recent run had Amazons threaten to rape Steve Rogers...I mean, that other guy, and it's already drawn flak and likely will in the future. Does one rape threat undermine progress?
Han being a bit "no means yes' is about the only reason I didn't do an in-depth look at how the series isn't what people seem to think it is, but this is a series that was informed by George lucas' hippie anti-war sensibilities in which the woman is the most competent member of the "sausage fest" and is--Han aside--largely a rejection of the typical notions of Western masculinity.
As Luke grows up, for example, his victories are not defined by aggression. Rather, his failures are. If Luke wasn't a childhood hero of people who imprinted on him as Aryan Force Jesus, he'd be called a cuck and probably gay. Though they will be outraged if Mark Hamill tells a fan it's okay to see Luke as gay, because baby ducks.
And Leia's still the voice of reason, the one who gets them out of a losing firefight, the one gutsy enough to stand up to Darth Vader and strong enough to resist interrogation and implied torture. Also, she chokes out a proto-incel in that bikini everyone's up in arms about. Carrie Fischer was pretty strong in the corner of women's rights, and even she thought too much was read into the bikini. Leia was kind of awesome, even if her presentation was somewhat dated. Han was an idiot who cou.dn't even fix his own car. Much alpha. Very manhood.
But that's how people remember him. As this suave guy who was the alkpha male of the group and we ignore his repeated screwups because...ponies?
Star Wars, at least as far back as Empire, was incredibly mature given both its inspirations and its blockbuster/B-movie/popcorn flick trappings. Is it the most sophisticated series of all time? Rogr Taylor Almighty no. Is it perfect? Heavens to Brian May, no. Is it better than the pulp serials and Westerns it emulates? Merciful John Deacon yes.
I'm no saying that we ignore or justify Han's actions in Star Wars or that the series is perfect. But you go back more than a decade and you will find all sorts of uncomfortable elements in media. I think I used the MASH example early in this same thread, where they carried over but eventually phased out the nickname of "Spearchucker" Jones and stopped using the word "negroes" even though it would be appropriate for the period of the Vietnam War. Hawkeye, Trapper and BJ were all incredibly progressive characters in he series in one form or another. They were still alcoholics, smokers, and two of them were womanisers to an extreme degree. The show was almost as good an example of virtue signaling as Trek was, but it wasn't wasn't without its flaws. And it did it to the protest of the author of the original book, funnily enough.
I know I didn't spend a lot of time on Star Wars in this, but the overall point is that it's just part of a chain of media that was at one point considered "progressive" (which is really what the snarl word "SJW" means) that have problems by modern standards.
Ironically, I really liked Episode 3 because it felt like it had the Star Wars vibe. Though murdering children was a bit far.Grouchy Imp said:
The other two movies felt off in terms of focus to me.
Well that makes sense I suppose. I don't need all the blanks filled in with a backstory and yet I could definitely see how that would be unsatisfying for some.twistedmic said:
Anyway, if you asked me how I'd reboot the prequels, I'd say the same thing I said last time this was asked:
It starts with Anakin looking like this:
Episode 1
There's two giant rival spacefleets facing each other down. The leader of each is shuttled to a negotiating point right in the middle. We get hints from each leader's crew that their boss is acting strangely, and that agreeing to a talk like this is against their nature. Leaders meet, and voila- two jedi are there to oversee the talks. Obi-Wan the master, and Anakin the eager apprentice. They've basically mind tricked both sides to appear here, and now that they're here, they each get their say. The Jedi are expert diplomats and get them to see each other's side, but an assassination attempt (or whatever) forces Obi to do something more forceful. The negotiations are a success, the fleets back down, and news spreads that the Jedi have averted war yet again. Everyone thinks Anakin is great, though his wife complains he's away from home too much. Yes, he is married.
The first movie is basically a naive and new father Anakin learning the ways of the force as a Peacekeeper, but troubled at how the Jedi are increasingly manipulative in squashing uprisings. Obi Wan sees the Jedi as the one force stopping the Galaxy from tumbling into chaos, and isn't afraid to play hardball to maintain the status quo. This view is shared by Senator Palpatine, who insists that so many independent states will never rise above mere bickering tribes without a central authority. Anakin is intrigued by this sentiment, especially as these 'almost' wars are popping up with alarming regularity. Worse, Anakin suspects that many are instigated by a single cloaked figure. The Jedi suspect he may be one of a handful of 'fallen' expelled Jedi apprentices.
The climax involves the Galaxy reaching breaking point where a conflict erupts that even the Jedi fail to stop in time. Most of the galaxy seems to throw their lot instantly in with one or other of the two sides and the scale of the war gets out of control. Obi/Anakin confront this cloaked figure and have a duel, but he escapes, revealing little more than confirming he was once a Jedi, and taunting that Anakin is fighting for the 'wrong side'. The Jedi order is disgraced for failing to stop the war.
Episode 2
So the Jedi know a lot of these conflicts have been centrally orchestrated but don't want to go public because it's an ex-Jedi behind it. Instead Obi and Anakin are sent to investigate where all these giant armies fuelling the conflict are coming from. Surprise! They're all clones. Surprise! They're being sold to both sides Zaharoff style, and there's too many even for the Republic fleet to deal with. The war creeps closer to Coruscant, and the defensive ring of Republic ships are caught up, and soon the Republic is fighting for its life. More people than ever turn to Palpatine who promises deliverance in return for full executive power over the Galaxy. The Jedi oppose this, but know the only way to prevent it is to stop the cloaked warlord before Palpatine wins the heart of the people. As they more desperately and destructively search for the warlord, Anakin grows disillusioned with the Jedi, argumentative with his wife, and easy prey for Palpatine's reasoning, who sees the Jedi as an obstacle.
This one finishes with a battle over Coruscant, the warlord killed but Anakin disfigured and The Jedi temple destroyed- the blame falling on Anakin and Obi-Wan, who does feel responsible and takes it with grace, while Anakin (now suited up) flies off the handle and has a violent outburst at home, destroying the place. He thinks he crushed his family (his terrified wife takes their infant daughter into hiding while others take his infant son away) and since he's expelled from the Jedi he turns to Palpatine, his only remaining avenue. He is welcomed, only discovering now that the cloaked warlord had been palpatine's apprentice, and Palpatine himself is a disguised former Jedi. Palpatine is given full power, and co-ordinates a counter-attack that ends the Clone Wars and restores galaxy wide order under an iron grip.
Episode 3
This is Rogue One, but much better. The Empire is established, and only ragtag resistance remains. These pockets come together to form the Rebel Alliance, but they're horribly disorganised. The Empire on the other hand is ruthlessly efficient, having standardised its capital ships, uniforms, protocols etc etc. Moffs, in charge of sectors of space, are using their new Star Destroyers to exact overabundant retribution for penalties. Many innocents are killed, which fuels the Rebellion. Since the biggest threat comes from Rebel starfighters, The Imperials decide to upgrade their fighters from the standard TIE Fighters, so a specification is issued to various companies for a successor. The bickering Rebels, on finding out many of their most hated Moffs will be attending the demonstration of these new fighter prototypes, plan a raid on the facility, starting with an infiltration of agents to discover where the weakest points will be. Lots of espionage ensues as the countdown to the raid ticks down, with suspicion coming from a young starfighter designer who's there to show off his new ship. The Moffs arrive, they ooh and ahh at the various prototypes, when the rebels warp in and start the attack. The test pilots are no match for the rebel pilots, and the spies use the confusion to download what info they can. They stumble by chance on the plans for the Death Star, and they are so horrified by it's power that they resolve that the information must get to the rebels. Vader steals the TIE Advanced X1 prototype and starts kicking ass, and the spies catch an escape pod as the facility is destroyed with a lot of high ranking Imperials caught in the explosion. With them goes the starfighter designer, who's so fed up with the Imperial's lack of vision he decides to gift his new X-Wing design to the Rebels. The plans are transmitted, casualties mounting as the Rebels hang back to do so, and Vader's Star destroyer arrives as they all escape. Vader sends several ships to various hyperspace corridors the Rebels might use, but saves the most plausible one for himself. Over Tatooine the Rebels think they are safe, only for Vader's ship to warp in nearby. The rebels hit full thrust away from him, desperate to escape. It ends on a dark, forboding cliffhanger.
Your idea sounds amazing, and I would totally watch those movies at least once.Though I would change the whole thing about lightsaber blade colors having meaning and have it be that the color of a lightsaber blade is simply dependent on the type or crystal used in construction.Squilookle said:
A way to work that and still keep the cannon lightsaber colors and hilts could be this- Anakin throws away his blue lightsaber after destroying his home. After Luke is taken into hiding a Jedi sympathetic to Obi-Wan and/or pre-Dark Side Anikin (close friend or former lover of Obi-Wan) lets Obi-Wan know where Luke is (they can sense the connection to the Force) and gives him Anakin's lightsaber along with the instructions to keep an eye on Luke.
When Anakin arrives at Palpatine's palace/estate Palpatine reveals himself by presenting the Cloaked Warlord's lightsaber (Vader's from the original trilogy) to Anakin.
I think you're getting the lightsaber colour meanings from someone else. I don't have an opinion on those either way, so just sticking to the crystal type thing to determine colour is fine by me. Though it's a bit convoluted how Anakin's lightsaber gets to Obi Wan. I'd rather it just be confiscated when the Jedi boot him out, and Obi Wan takes a liking to it and keeps it as a memento. Though yes, at some point he needs to learn about Luke and/or be assigned to watch over him.twistedmic said:
Hmm, I thought the whole "Each color corresponds to a specific type of Jedi/personality" thing was cannon ,maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong because that struck me as an asinine ideaSquilookle said:
That would probably make more sense and flow better.
I believe it's alluded to within current canon to some extent. Not sure if it's ever outright said, though.twistedmic said:
i dont think Rose was talking about the resistance, but more the new galactic republic. the weapon manufacturer for the sake of money would sell to both the republic and the first order, fueling a war, and making money out of it. The two side were huge in this, not first order on one side, ad a small rebellion on the other side.ObsidianJones said:
there is not a hint of romance between Rose and Finn, because there is none. Finn is absolutely not in love with Rose, and havent even noted that Rose may liked him. It s a purely one way love thing there. Rose love Finn, but it's only her. When Rose kissed Finn, Finn is like wtf, why are you kissing me ? look at his face when she does that. he doesnt show any feeling toward her.
Which is the theme of the movie. failure. every one fail.
it's not that clear in the movie, i give you that, but in other sources it's noted that the Raddus have an experimental deflective shield that is way stronger than anything build before. and it's that experimental shield that made that move possible for that ship and not for the others
That said, and back to OT, i think episode 1 and 2 should have been crunch in one movie, have a whole movie to see the shift to the dark side for anakin, and leave the third one as it is.
I'd start here https://medium.com/@spencerkylejohnson/star-wars-belongs-to-social-justice-warriors-8d9a6f18384aPseudonym said:
Also set it into the context of what was popular before like Westerns and Dirty Harry eque movies that were morally grey. A defining trait of SJWs is the black and whiteness with morality, which Star Wars copirs.
Also, Lucas stated that he created Sidious as a stand in for Nixon. He hated the Vietnam war and thought this was going to lead to tryanny. During the prequels, when Vader was made he pretty much quoted George W Bush and a lot of the prequels was about him. Palpatine being Cheney and Bush being lead to the dark side.
So... these new movies are far less political.
And remember, there was a boycott of Rogue One because people thought it was Anti-Trump.
What would have helped with the effects, and possibly some of the acting, is less digital and more practical/physical. If more actual physical sets (like the Senate Chamber and Geonosis arena) and costumes (clone troopers in particular) than the movies would have looked and aged far better. As it is now there was so much blue/green screen work that everything looks incredibly fake and cartoonish.Kreett said:
*sigh* No. And I hate that damn misunderstanding.twistedmic said:
The concept of lightsaber colors having significance traces to Knights of the Old Republic, wherein they divided the Jedi Knights into the three classes of Guardian/Consular/Sentinel. These classes were created for gameplay purposes, and roughly corresponded to Warrior/Mage/Rogue. While they described each of the classes as traditionally being represented by a certain color, that's a matter of what color crystal you are given at the start. It's purely cosmetic and at most treated as a traditional symbol of the station rather than a hard and fast rule. Indeed, one of the dialogue options in that same scene actually lays this out directly:
A lot of fans took the idea as gospel, however, to the point of both believing it to be a higher tier of canon than it ever was, and believing it to be a hard and fast rule that effectively retconned Luke into belonging to a particular character class, rather than a social guideline within the culture of the Jedi millennia before the 'contemporary' story. And sadly they spread their misunderstanding to others who took them at their word, and now it's almost an 'as everyone knows' style misconception.