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[The_root_of_all_evil]

Basically what we have here are refutations of the "entitlement" bullshit gaming media and devs/publishers are slinging around like howling monkeys.

What do you think?

You're mislabeling.

This isn't "Gamer-Entitlement", this is "Human Entitlement". Horizon last week had a whole thing on how the Human Brain ignores what it has to push what it wants.

On average, we're too stupid to realise we're not losing out unless we think on it.

Also, companies are muddying the waters by removing things that were included in the price and charging not only for them but more for the business model.

In the Mass Effect fiasco, Bioware trumpeted how brave they were, how successful they were and how open the game was - and then forgot the biggest reason people play the game (again), you build your own Shepard. When you go back on the one thing that made the series unique, you should expect tantrums of epic proportions.

 

[dontlooknow]

Of course we're entitled - we're entitled to a product that functions in the way we expect it to. It's just that the games industry seems to be generally more vocal, both from the customers and the producers - mainly because there's quite a big overlap between the circles of 'gamer' and 'vaguely computer-literate, forum junky.' I would put good money on guessing that there is just as many people who go home an ***** about the problems with Tesco (or Walmart, for that matter), only to go back the next week to repeat their buying habits. It's just that nobody, in the history of life, the universe and everything, has taken to the forums to complain about, say an oddly shaped Tesco Value muffin, with the same crusader-like vehemence of an irate gamer.

 

[Michael Hirst]

I hate people throwing around this word entitlement like it's an actual defence for poor writing. Without giving throwing spoilers everywhere I'll just say the endings to ME3 (that's where the buzzword has come from recently) had little variation and closure, we didn't get to learn much about those characters we have come to love through a trilogy of games instead the focus resting on Joker and EDI, the former being only a minor character for the first 2 games and the latter only having a semi-important role in the second game. No Liara, No Garrus, not a peep from those guys.

I'm not being entitled about the ending I'm just saying they did a crap job on the ending and didn't fully consider the established characters and the fans love of said characters.

Now onto another thing, if demanding high quality is being entitled and that's wrong, what you're essentially saying is as gamers spending $60/£40 on release day (lets not talk about DLC completely different topic) in good faith of a product does not permit you to have a good experience. THIS IS BULL!

Look at any entertainment media, when a creator/artist of any kind makes good works then screws up, doesn't matter if it's film or videogame or music the people who bought it will react, some more polite than others, when we're given a product that isn't to standard we have to be vocal about it after all we are the only reason they can afford to make their entertainment/art in the first place. If we complain and then we're completely ignored and banned from their forums for speaking such words it's less likely we'll ever put our faith (or money) into that company again.

 

[Keava]

I think you have it spot on here, but there is still the problem of where the line between "Something is a problem and should be changed" and "I don't like it so must be changed" actually is. Personally, I think those that demand Day 1 DLC be free and that a games ending should be changed have crossed that line, but I know that others here would disagree.

When it comes to day-1 DLC that isn't cosmetic it's pretty much question of how much, You, individually, as customer, can accept from company. There is a whole grey area there, and for eg. I don't mind day1 DLC that is added to every new copy of game as so called "project 10$". It's fair play that doesn't really affect me as PC gamer, and on consoles only affects used copies (again, depends on how much of a problem You consider it to be).
Same time I don't like "exclusive" retailer DLCs, Day-1 DLCs that are sold for additional fee or DLC containing items that invalidate in-game progression (often DLC armors are so good that it's hard to replace them till very late into game).

When it comes to game endings however I feel everyone who can give valid/logical arguments as to why They do not like given ending or any other pat of the game has right to complain about it. Especially in case of game that so heavily relies on story telling. The whole situation with ME3 is even made worse by the recent rumors that "proper" ending will be coming as an update in few months (end of april/may).
That creates entirely new issue of selling game at full price without including all the core content (I do not believe they just make new ending now, getting voice actors alone would take more time than 2-3 months considering they are mostly big names in industry and have other gigs than just BioWare games). It's hard to not ask Yourself a question "Did I just paid for unfinished game?" , and if so, there is certainly reason to complain.
If BW said prior to release that the ending will come at later date it would be fine, as customer You would have knowledge of that fact and could make informed decision whenever it's worth it to buy it now or better to wait for "full" version.

 

[sifffffff]

In some cases yes they are. However in regards to the ending of Mass Effect 3, no they are not.

 

[BeerTent]

First of all, I'm not going to say anything about Mass Effect. The combat system killed ME2 for me, and as a result of how amazingly unimaginative and un-entertaining it was, I'm not touching ME3. Mass Effect's story for me ended around when Shepard died trying to break Jack free from prison. (At least, I think that's what the objective was.) Grunt and Garrus went off to do their own thing starring in a bunch of whacky episodes elsewhere and I stopped caring.

Second,

You see this ["Entitled"] thrown around constantly by all variety of gaming sites, and its become especially common over the last few weeks as various media outlets attempt to report on the recent controversies involving Bioware and Mass Effect 3.

Common over the past few weeks? Fuck off. It was plenty common long before ME3. And on my side of the gaming world, you fucking saw it like you wouldn't believe. I'm a valvE fan. I don't believe that everything they do is a godsend, but I do believe that a lot of what they do is pretty right because, oh my god! I can imagine myself in their shoes! Madness!

We see it with free 3rd party mods left right and center. We deserve this, we don't want that, we demand this, blah, blah, this mechanic is retarded, ledge-grab is gay and should be removed. We've seen it with Left 4 Dead, "Oh, you wanted to add more stuff than could warrant DLC? Too bad! We demand this! We demand that! This should be free! We are entitled to this!"

No offense, but when I see something like this, I call bullshit. The biggest problem is that your playing "Safe" AAA Crap and expecting it to be the godsend to gaming, when in reality, it hardly offers much to the table. I'm not saying all AAA titles are crap. They're not. But they more than often, don't bring much new to the table, and aren't going to rock your world anytime soon.

I probably have more, but I gotta go. You could be justified in ME3. But PC Gamer entitlement exists. It's not a copout. It's not horseshit, and it actually is a headache.

 

[idarkphoenixi]

Just...shut up, you've got no right to throw around the word "entitlement" unless you know it's full meaning. I'm getting so sick of hearing this word. You know who else complains about entitlement? Republicans when they are trying to rob people of their welfare checks and medicare.


Games are getting more and more expensive, fact. Free bonus stuff is getting rarer and rarer. DLC is getting so mainstream and being introduced so early that they obviously planned it way ahead of schedule, maybe even during original development. When DLC comes out on day 1, it's a slap in the face to all consumers saying "hey, we could have given this as part of the main package but fuck you, pay us more money!". How can some people not feel ripped off??

Now can everyone just SHUT UP about mass effect 3? This is worse than the Skyrim thread spams because at least that stuff was mostly positive.

 

[Wintermoot]

we payed money for our products and they need to be quality goods.
it,s true that games are made by companies that only want money and there is nothing wrong with it but that doesn't mean that we gamers should be scrutinized if we want more.
about dlc
yes and no some DLC is uther bullshit like day one stuff that,s already on the disc(like the SR3 cheat pack)or things modders can do in a day (like the infamous horse armor). Bigger DLC,s like The Shivering Isles cost understandably money because it,s so big.

 

[Michael Hirst]

Lets look at another example of "Gamer Entitlement"...Metal Gear Solid 2/3

When MGS2 came out it was a damn good game, really cool story, it played well, the graphics were ground breaking, the music was just awesome and it contained all the essential elements we wanted in an MGS game, hell I LOVED that game but then ONE thing changed perceptions for everyone, Raiden.

The sheer outrage at Raiden was immense, even I was annoyed at not playing as Solid Snake (I adored the first game and thought he was one of the best videogame characters EVER) People were losing their shit and hated how we'd been given this new character who looked almost completely like a woman to play as, the nerd/fan rage was shown everywhere.

Now without all that shit from the fans and all that whiny entitlement consider, would we have gotten MGS3 with Big Boss as the protagonist? I don't think so, Kojima liked Raiden, liked his creation a lot and according to some sources didn't want MGS3 at all.

So for all our entitlement what did we get? Arguably the best game in the franchise MGS3 (I prefer MGS 1's story but 3 takes the gameplay medals for me)

Can people honestly say fan reaction wasn't considered when deciding to make MGS3? I'm nto saying we alone were responsible but without all that bitching about MGS2 I don't think we would have gotten the same game.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

There's a certain point where people need to realize that they are playing a video game. Making demands for free things gets a bit ridiculous.

Also, it's worth noting that "entitlement" doesn't necessarily mean a bad thing. It's one of those words like "streamlining" that his gained a negative connotation over the years.

Would I say people who are demanding a new ending for Mass Effect 3 are entitled? No. Not at all.

The outrage was so enormous, that it clearly was something much more than butt-hurt fan boys. When the overwhelming majority of people are not satisfied with the ending, that's when you realize that you fucked something up. It's something that they've invested a lot of time in, and they were also told to expect a very personal story to them. When that's all said and done, Bioware failed to deliver. They not only ruined their game in the process, they ruined the customer's experience and world along with it.

So yes, they deserve to feel entitled.

 

[WoW Killer]

But gamers are a weird bunch. They'd rather pay money for something they perceive to be inadequate and then complain about it's inadequacies afterwards rather than avoid purchasing it in the first place.

The interesting thing here is that I agree absolutely with your evaluation of the problem, as in the bit I quoted, but you call this gamers acting entitled, and I call it a lack of entitlement. We have the same view with a slight change in wording, but probably picked opposite sides in the poll

Captcha: exclaimation!

 

[Dinnerman]

I don't feel like anybody complaining about ME3's ending has a valid argument. Sure, you can think poorly of it, or you could think well of it, and there's nothing wrong with that. Art is subjective. But to demand that Bioware change it? Grow the hell up. It's THEIR game. Their work of art. They can do whatever they like with the story, and if you don't like it, then you don't like it. Just because it doesn't happen to sync up with your personal vision of how the series should've ended means nothing.

And to anybody banging on about how the ending 'ruined the series' for them, just can it. It's about the journey, not the destination.

 

[Chemical Alia]

I don't play games that I don't like or don't think are worth my money. It's worked great for years.

While great in theory, it becomes a problem in practice when there are no games (or not enough) that ARE worth the money. It is at this point that we must demand better games or cease playing them entirely, which to me is a wholly unacceptable option. It is not merely the consumers right, but their responsibility to demand the products that they wish to purchase.

I always wish that there were more games for me to enjoy. I've always been very selective in what I choose to play, but it certainly hasn't been my experience that the quantity of decent games has changed over the years. It's always been a small number.

I think that good developers listen to and respond to feedback that is presented in an intelligent way, whether it's praise or criticism. If the developer completely ignores its community, then their games are probably not worth playing anyway.

 

[Fappy]

For the love of god, every name you see in the credits of a game is a person just like you, be a little fucking grateful once in a while.

My gratitude is the $60 I give them for the game. Beyond that, I owe them Jack Shit.

If I give them $60 for a product, and that product is not the product they sold (it is not as described in previews, advertisements, or packaging), I have every legal right - and the moral obligation - to complain about it. I have been cheated, and I'll be damned if I'll just lay down and take it.

That's not entitlement. That's the foundation of consumer capitalism. It doesn't work any other way.

This x10000. At the end of the day this is a business. They speak in dollar bills, not thank you cards.

 

[Weaver]

Forbes is now the most respectable gaming news outlet.

You linked to Erik Kain's personal Blog on Forbes, these were not actual published articles that reflect the writ of Forbes at large.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I don't feel like anybody complaining about ME3's ending has a valid argument. Sure, you can think poorly of it, or you could think well of it, and there's nothing wrong with that. Art is subjective. But to demand that Bioware change it? Grow the hell up. It's THEIR game. Their work of art. They can do whatever they like with the story, and if you don't like it, then you don't like it. Just because it doesn't happen to sync up with your personal vision of how the series should've ended means nothing.

And to anybody banging on about how the ending 'ruined the series' for them, just can it. It's about the journey, not the destination.

Meh. I'll just repost Tycho's response to this assertion.

There?s a countercharge now, in response to anger about the endings, that describes Bioware?s output as sacrosanct in some way - beyond criticism. This is fundamentally batshit, or as noted ?speculative fiction? author Harlan Ellison might say, bugfuck. I?m fine with the ending, which to my mind started as soon as I ran the executable - the whole game is denouement - but I revolt against the idea of Authorial Divinity almost at the molecular level.

So, yeah. As much as I respect your "I disagree with you, so you need to shut up" perspective on life, I can't say I think you've got a leg to stand on. But from the tone of your post, I don't forsee you being open to having your mind changed.

 

[Kapol]

No. Gamers are not acting entitled enough. They are spending money on a product that they are dissatisfied with. Gamers need to understand that they are the consumers, the consumers are always right, and that the way to change an industry is to vote with your wallet. Shame on anybody who complained about a product but still bought it.

You see, that's one of the reason I think gamers are entitled. Not because we complain when we're not happy about something (at least not entirely because of that). But because we seem to think that we should be able to complain about the way that companies handle their product even though we'll still buy it up happily. Why? Because gamers seem to think that companies will and should listen even when we continue to throw money at them. That's not to say you can't complain about something in the game (such as the ending or gameplay). More that you can't really complain about the way the companies handle things like day-1 DLC if you're still going to buy the game, the DLC, and pretty much anything else they release. That just sends the messages they need to keep doing that kind of thing.

Of course, the worst are the people who pirate games 'in protest.' It's basically saying that they still want the game, but are willing to punish the developer (who usually isn't the one people have the problem with, it's normally the publisher) and give more reason for BS laws like SOPA to pass. That doesn't make them think about changing what they're doing to get those sales back. It makes the companies impose stronger DRM to try making sure it doesn't happen.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

It's THEIR game. Their work of art.

Bioware is not a 15 yr old girl writing dark poetry in her dairy. They are a company, producing a product. They are charging 60+ of your hard earned dollars for this product, and if the consumer is not satisfied with this product they have a right to complain, because there's nothing else consumers (especially PC gamers, they can't even throw their copy to Gamestop) can do about it. EA/Bioware are not people, they are not your friend, they are not trying to do you any favors. They are trying to suck as much money out of you as humanly possible, and do not need anyone on the internet to stick up for them.