I blame Disney+Lucasfilm on the fans.

[Aurora Firestorm]

I entirely agree on never liking the original trilogy. Luke is boring; the universe isn't fleshed out enough; the plot is stale; I don't care if it's a hallmark of the sci-fi universe; it's *old.* I don't like High Art because it's High Art. Sure, Star Wars is the High Art of sci-fi, but that doesn't make it *good*, just groundbreaking. Those are very different. Deus Ex was a groundbreaking game, but I can still say that its graphics were shit and the crossbow was too easy to cheese.

I don't see what this bullshit "sacred agreement" between creators and viewers is. I am an artist and a writer, myself. If you don't like my story, shove off. I have zero obligation to listen to anyone who tells me to change my work, or who objects to me changing my work. Same for any other creator. Lucas doesn't have to give you the time of day. Vote with your money, not your mouth, because he *does* have to listen to that if he wants to succeed. As long as he likes his creation and turns a profit, it doesn't matter what the fans say. Remember what they told you in third grade, about not caring what the other kids think?

 

[Guffe]

Yes.

Let's blame the fans that the Star Wars franchise is now in the hands of someone who can potentially do some great things with IT.

Good job guys

I really don't get why people are flipping out about this. Disney will probably bring the franchise back on track.

True true.
Disney is one of the companies who could bring this back in a good way.


I hope they are doing a movie version of the Jedi Outcast games or then doing somehting like 500 years into the future.
This might either be really Badass or just Ass! I doubt it can be anything inbetween.

 

[DioWallachia]

1)You need to watch the documentary: "People Vs George Lucas"

2) Lucas had a document where he writed all the posible proyects he wanted to do as a filmmaker, and yet not a single one of them where realized because of its obsesión with Star Wars "polishing". If he wasnt nuts to begin with, then the fans wouldnt be as nuts as him.

 

[DioWallachia]

I don't see what this bullshit "sacred agreement" between creators and viewers is. I am an artist and a writer, myself. If you don't like my story, shove off. I have zero obligation to listen to anyone who tells me to change my work, or who objects to me changing my work. Same for any other creator. Lucas doesn't have to give you the time of day. Vote with your money, not your mouth, because he *does* have to listen to that if he wants to succeed. As long as he likes his creation and turns a profit, it doesn't matter what the fans say. Remember what they told you in third grade, about not caring what the other kids think?

But when you make "fixes" to your work and end up making it even worse because it opens more plot holes, then the audience has the obligation of calling you out on it. If the story is well written but people dont like it then that is their opinion, but if it isnt then they will ***** about it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I don't see what this bullshit "sacred agreement" between creators and viewers is. I am an artist and a writer, myself. If you don't like my story, shove off. I have zero obligation to listen to anyone who tells me to change my work, or who objects to me changing my work. Same for any other creator. Lucas doesn't have to give you the time of day. Vote with your money, not your mouth, because he *does* have to listen to that if he wants to succeed. As long as he likes his creation and turns a profit, it doesn't matter what the fans say. Remember what they told you in third grade, about not caring what the other kids think?

If you are an artist and a writer, and you produce works that fans embrace, and those fans make you a millionaire or a billionaire, then yes...you have an unspoken contract with those fans. You can choose to ignore it...that is the artist's prerogative. But if you do ignore it, showing a blatant lack of concern or interest in the investment of fans that have made you a very wealthy man, then people are going to insinuate that you are a piece of shit. And they will have a very compelling argument.

That "lesson" you were taught in third grade, by the way, has been persistently misunderstood by an entire generation, which is a big part of why North Americans are falling further and further behind in terms of achievement but still lead the world in self-esteem. There's a difference between "don't let the opinions of others define you" and "shrug off all criticism, warranted or otherwise, because you are perfect just the way you are". The former means one has a strong self of individuality. The second means one is a delusional, self-aggrandizing asshole.

 

[cerebus23]

Old films lest had characters, that had some actual character development, and acted with each other, had to see much of any of that in the new films withe the horrible wooden acting, absolutely rubbish dialogue, and characters that were so unlikable as a result you could not give a spits less when annakin starts killing younglings, or anywhere before that as he was a spoiled neurotic brat from childhood to adulthood.

they even go so far as to contradict the story as told in the og films in some ways, i mean common.

and some of the best lines in the movies were ad libbed by the actors which cause lucas to go ape on harrison ford but much to fords credit he told lucas to take a hike he was not reshooting it.

think since then lucas has had it in for ford making his character lamer and lamer each rerelease. .

lucas was constantly challenged during the first 3 films else they would have been total tripe from the get go most likely. lucas cannot seem to write dialogue to save his life, that is plainly apparent from episode 2 i think especially with the whole romance between annakin and natlie portman with about as much chemistry as 2 dead half rotten fish going on between them and its nausiating to sit through.

I wont lie and say episode 4 and 5 were omg the bestest filmz evar, but episode 5 was he clearly best of the lot, the one where lucas had maybe the lest creative control.

Episode 6 had that lucas stink of kiddie marketing toy tie ins with the whole ewoks angle marketed straight at children, but the whole luke growing up/becoming a jedi, confronting his father/emperor and how that all played out.

And while the og films lighsabers duels lacked in zomg lazorswordz, lest they made up for it in emotion and not making 800 wasteful nonsensical dance move sword disco moves so you can pad out the "epic" lazorsword battles. all of which pad on far far too long in episodes 1 2 and 3.

Its like if dbz was done faithfully according to the old dubbed version where the goku freiza battle takes like 6 episodes for a supposed 30 minute till the planet ends battle and lucas loved it so much hedecided to make every lightsaber battle just like it with ever escalating "power" levels and ever increasing "wow" digitally created fake backgrounds some of which were pretty darn bad.

I can see where younger people raised on mtv and power rangers might find some appeal to 1 2 and 3 but anyone with any taste or attention span will probably lest say that 4 5 and 6 were better films and might even say 1 2 and 3 sucked. I would say they sucked in about every way possible especially after lucas fluffing them so hard in interviews and his horrible horrible annakin actors, i mean wth man how can he look at that kid or that emo boy and say well that is a brilliant actor there....

 

[Ishal]

Fan's ruining things and making mountains out of molehills is nothing new. Especially if you play MMO's.

 

[Luca72]

Read your entire post ShogunGino, and I have to say I... mostly agree.

I saw Star Wars in theaters when the special edition hit, and I was probably 8 at the time. I was hooked! I got the box set and watched it frequently. And I was definitely disappointed in the prequels.

But I went back and watched the original trilogy and realized that they never were that amazing to begin with. I guess as I get older my science fiction interests are leaning more toward things like 2001: A Space Odyssey and Alien, which both manage to have elements of fantasy but are grounded in enough reality that I'm never taken out of the movie.

Star Wars is in that category of pure "entertainment" movies, like Indiana Jones or pretty much every spy movie ever made. And that's fine, that's what they were going for, right? But in my opinion those types of movies rarely age well. Everything in a movie ages differently, and I've noticed comedy and "thrilling action sequences" are some of the hardest to preserve. Even Citizen Kane has some parts that haven't aged well. I'm sure that within 30 years the Avengers is going to look ridiculous. That's just the way things go.

And the prequels really just repeated the formula. Shallow characters, vague mysticism, good vs. evil, and epic set-pieces. But by the time they came out I'd played enough video games to not be immediately impressed with a typhoon of CGI soldiers. But what's worth noting is that the kids that saw the prequels around the same time in their lives that I saw the original trilogy seem to love them as much as I loved the originals.

TL,DR: I loved Star Wars as a kid, but it's not like it left me with any deep wisdom. It's just a fun light show about space wizards, and people tend to get WAY too worked up on both sides about it.

 

[DarthSka]

I only read about halfway through, but I've always considered the Star Wars fanbase to be quite sad, and I'm a huge fan of the series. Threatening a guy over how he deals with HIS movies is just pathetic and there's even a documentary about this whole issue (The People vs. George Lucas). Many people have this perception that the series belongs to the fans since it's such an integral part of popular culture and that George has no right to change it. But that's the thing, it is (was) George's and he could do whatever the hell he wanted. Overall, the changes and edits never really bothered me. As for the prequels, I liked them (Episode III is my second favorite movie of the saga) but that's where you can't have a reasonable talk at all since it comes down to a matter of opinion.

 

[DracoSuave]

If Disney does to Lucasfilms what they did to Marvel no one is going to complain at all.

Also

 

[Aurora Firestorm]

I don't see what this bullshit "sacred agreement" between creators and viewers is. I am an artist and a writer, myself. If you don't like my story, shove off. I have zero obligation to listen to anyone who tells me to change my work, or who objects to me changing my work. Same for any other creator. Lucas doesn't have to give you the time of day. Vote with your money, not your mouth, because he *does* have to listen to that if he wants to succeed. As long as he likes his creation and turns a profit, it doesn't matter what the fans say. Remember what they told you in third grade, about not caring what the other kids think?

If you are an artist and a writer, and you produce works that fans embrace, and those fans make you a millionaire or a billionaire, then yes...you have an unspoken contract with those fans. You can choose to ignore it...that is the artist's prerogative. But if you do ignore it, showing a blatant lack of concern or interest in the investment of fans that have made you a very wealthy man, then people are going to insinuate that you are a piece of shit. And they will have a very compelling argument.

That "lesson" you were taught in third grade, by the way, has been persistently misunderstood by an entire generation, which is a big part of why North Americans are falling further and further behind in terms of achievement but still lead the world in self-esteem. There's a difference between "don't let the opinions of others define you" and "shrug off all criticism, warranted or otherwise, because you are perfect just the way you are". The former means one has a strong self of individuality. The second means one is a delusional, self-aggrandizing asshole.

There is no contract. It doesn't work that way. As a fan, you are choosing to stay with this franchise. Your agreement, if it exists, is one-way. You are agreeing to watch this movie, or read this book, or whatever, right now. You don't own the universe, or even a tiny stake in it, except for whatever fan work you may create, and even then you don't own the actual characters/world. You can say that it would be *nice* for creators to think of what their fans might want, but really, fans are fickle, and you'll never please them all. Better to do what *you* want, and let the haters hate, than to try to appeal to the giant committee of fans.

Yes, nice creators will walk the fine line, trying to acknowledge the fans while staying true to their work. But they have no obligation. There is no piece of paper. They never promised you anything. You picked up their work one day, and liked it. That gives you zero authority here. Complaining that they're ruining their own work and that they should produce the work *you* want to read/see/whatever, is like complaining to your host that they didn't make the dinner *you* wanted. It's rude. There's a fine line as a fan, between criticism and outright condemnation. You can say that you think the characters are bland, or that the setting is shallow, or whatever, but others might not think so, and the author has no particular requirement to listen to you. Hell, you might not be right. Even if you are, everyone learns at their own pace, including established artists, and yes, they do have every right to decide that they're successful doing what they do and that you're basically full of it -- whether you are or not.

Oh, please, there is so much more to blame for America's current state than the "damn Millennials." That's a high horse right there.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

There is no contract. It doesn't work that way. As a fan, you are choosing to stay with this franchise. Your agreement, if it exists, is one-way. You are agreeing to watch this movie, or read this book, or whatever, right now. You don't own the universe, or even a tiny stake in it, except for whatever fan work you may create, and even then you don't own the actual characters/world. You can say that it would be *nice* for creators to think of what their fans might want, but really, fans are fickle, and you'll never please them all. Better to do what *you* want, and let the haters hate, than to try to appeal to the giant committee of fans.

Yes, nice creators will walk the fine line, trying to acknowledge the fans while staying true to their work. But they have no obligation. There is no piece of paper. They never promised you anything. You picked up their work one day, and liked it. That gives you zero authority here. Complaining that they're ruining their own work and that they should produce the work *you* want to read/see/whatever, is like complaining to your host that they didn't make the dinner *you* wanted. It's rude. There's a fine line as a fan, between criticism and outright condemnation. You can say that you think the characters are bland, or that the setting is shallow, or whatever, but others might not think so, and the author has no particular requirement to listen to you. Hell, you might not be right. Even if you are, everyone learns at their own pace, including established artists, and yes, they do have every right to decide that they're successful doing what they do and that you're basically full of it -- whether you are or not.

Oh, please, there is so much more to blame for America's current state than the "damn Millennials." That's a high horse right there.

We will disagree that there is an obligation. There's an ethical obligation. We will also disagree that it's "rude" to criticize someone who is selling you their work if they do not sell you the work you expected/wanted. There are limits to the forms that criticism should take, but criticism is entirely valid and comes with the territory.

Obviously there is a line to be walked between respecting your fans and obeying the tyranny of the majority. Artists are not slaves to their fan base, but neither are the fans an utter irrelevance to be scoffed at. If you do...if you take the position that the fans are just lucky to be buying your stuff, and you can do whatever you want, and those poor sad fans will just have to suck it up, then you run a very high risk of waking up one morning and discovering all your fans are gone, and that people have written unkind things about you on the internet.

I think "big part of" pretty much covers the fact that no one factor is ever really to blame for anything that complex. You can accuse me of being on a high horse all you want. The "I don't care what anyone thinks of me, NYAH" attitude that has become pervasive over the last 20-30 years is fucking ridiculous, and your endorsement of arrogance in artists and utter disrespect of the people who make their careers possible is baffling. If it's climbing up on a high horse to point that out, so be it.

 

[Daverson]

Do you remember that time when Disney bought out Marvel, and then they made all the movies that were awful, I mean, that Avengers movie where they replaced Iron Man with a comic relief robot and made captain America a nazi, that was probably the worst thing ever. You know they're just going to do the same thing with Star Wars now! D=

Oh, wait. That didn't happen, did it? Sorry about that, guess I fell into a parallel universe where stuff "experts" on the internet say actually happens.

Come to think of it, Disney's pretty big on the whole purity thing, isn't he? Maybe when they unfreeze him we can get the much-coveted original cinematic cut on DVD or something =p

 

[Kolby Jack]

Star Wars "fans" started out legit. They had reasonable gripes against the new films that were heard by the people. They spoke their minds, and everyone understood where they were coming from. But then they kept talking. And kept talking. And wouldn't stop talking. Every time it looked like the griping would subside and we could move on, some internet video gets posted and the whole gang gets riled up, pointing at it and shouting "YOU SEE?! THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT!" It never ends! I can now feel safe put the word "fans" in quotes, because while they may have been fans once, now they're just dicks who can't seem to move on.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

A New Hope is a bunch of stock characters that don't really develop at all over the course of the movie. It's plot is a standard good vs evil empire story that only won audiences back in the day with its astonishing visual presentation and memorable soundtrack. Only those who were children back then thought that the story was unique.

Star Wars was popular because of Vietnam and Watergate. We felt like the bad guys who were murdering civilians. And we felt betrayed by our president who we trusted. The films presented a simple story that made things black and white in terms of morality and made us identify with the heroes. I wouldn't say that it gave people back their hope that the US was a force for good, but it definitely was a part of that and capitalized off it at the same time.

What story is unique? The great ones get made over and over and over with different settings and the 'unique' ones tend to be awful. Pyramus and Thisbe, Pygmalion, Hamlet. We remake the same stories over and over. And A New Hope had about as many stock characters as every single major hollywood production does; it's all the same trends dressed up differently. So either you hate visual media or I'm not really sure what your point is.

I started responding to your second part, but I'm tired, I think you have very poor taste in movies, and don't really care to take the time to explain every little reason why. Empire Strikes Back is not the be all end all of cinema, but it is a fantastic movie from almost every angle and easily the best Star Wars movie.

I really don't mind Han not shooting first

Then you really don't understand the character of Han Solo. The point is that he's an asshole(or at least starts out as one) who will gun people down over the slightest provocation. Also Han didn't shoot 'first' in the originals, Han shot and Greedo didn't even get the chance to because he was dead instantly. A point which Lucas has consistently lied about.

They are his movies to do with as he pleases. His ideas, his direction, his production, his movies.

And everyone else had the right to tell him that they suck compared to the old ones. That's how freedom works.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

I don't blame anyone, because there's no one to really blame. Star Wars is a very rich universe. It's got an endless amount of substance, and we've seen some really good works of art from multiple different mediums. Movies, games, shows, books(?)

Disney knows what they're doing. Let them do it.