ThatOtherGirl said:
Have you actually bothered to figure out who Julie Bindel is? Go get informed. Julie Bindel, author of "Why I hate men", who recently stated in an interview that she would put all men in a segregated camp to keep them away from women and who hopes heterosexuality doesn't survive the feminist movement because it is a tool of the patriarchy that oppresses women.
I avoided bringing this up because I wanted to see if anyone would do their own homework on the matter, but since it's out of the bag, I wonder how many of the people here who are upset by this story would feel the same way if it was about her being "banned" for wanting to talk about her antipathy towards men.
wulf3n said:
Firstly If we're talking safe space in the sense of safe from physical violence, harassment, and persecution that shouldn't require the distinction "safe spaces", that should just be everywhere.
Should be, perhaps, but "should" and "are" ain't exactly similar. There is every chance you haven't even the slightest idea what it's like to feel at risk for these things in what is ostensibly a modern society. But it's a very real thing. And not just for LGBT groups, but this is the one I am most familiar with. In this country, people will try and kill you for being queer. They will beat and rape you. You will often, though not always, find the police unwilling to help you. I mean, sure, it's illegal to assault or kill or rape someone, but what good is that if the police won't actually do anything? I don't know if it's the same in other industrial nations, but it's pretty fucking serious here.
Hell, I've actually had injuries I was afraid to take to a hospital for fear the police might get involved.
We're not solely talking physical violence, ether. But if straight people or white people were treated the same way LGBT folk and people of colour are, they'd be screaming loud and clear. In fact, they often don't need such provocation.
As for the discussion on safe spaces there appear to be at least two different interpretations people use, and rarely at the same time.
Weirdly, on of those is what people mean when talking about safe spaces, and one of those is what people mean when they're complaining about a fictitious concept, the free speech equivalent of a unicorn. People need to blow things out of proportion to get remotely into this authoritarian zone that keeps coming up, where people are prevented from ever speaking their minds on college campuses.
And the fact remains, that when it comes to college campuses, people are literally being hurt. This gets reframed as free speech by people who I'm pretty sure do not want this to change.
Mikeybb said:
My main point was how some use any form of suppression as a kind of legitimization of their stance, be it due to the composition of the people opposing them or some nebulous specter of prejudice they can point vaguely off toward.
From what I've seen, not giving them a podium and a lapdance is enough to count as suppression, though. This, for example, became a thing after someone was declined school resources. Not because she was banned from speaking. Just from doing it on their dime.
Denying them this validation seems important, but I do now wonder in what way that could be done without offering another validation of a different kind.
In the immortal words of Steve Franks, "if it's a game you want to play you'd better load the dice 'cause they'll do it anyway."
Sidenote, I've never met a person who didn't think Trump wasn't anything other than an insane man underneath a hilarious wig.
I guess an ocean between you and a thing can offer a great amount of insulation from a far scarier truth.
I know people. I work with and for them, I even have a couple of friends who want Trump to win. Unironically.
I just prefer to hope that the majority of people, silent and moderate as they may be during most debates, when offered the opportunity to influence events are the kind who recognize evil for what it is.
The problem is, going beyond the hope that this might be the case is the reality that at best, most people seem to not care. Or not care enough to act. People may not be cool with Trump, for example, but through inaction they are putting him in a position where he can run the country. And at that point, I would argue it doesn't matter. People can look at the way LGBT folk are treated in this country and think that it's awful, but if they're not willing to do anything about it, then it doesn't matter.
Here's another conundrum: we often judge who is right and who is wrong by who is the loudest and most assertive. This is likely the source of Trump's power: he's not afraid to say really stupid things with absolute confidence and double down on them. Admitting you're wrong is a sign of weakness.
So what's the solution? Well, we could be as loud and stupid, but there's a problem. We exist under the threats I've mentioned above. Tere is real danger poking your head out. Being white and stupid is nowhere near the danger being gay or trans or black is in this country. This is why white people can point guns at cops while black people can get shot while unarmed. People around here, a lot of people elsewhere, they balk at privilege, but there is a tiered system in terms of treatment. Trump can be angry and threaten people, and people on here will defend him even as they proclaim freeze peach and such. If straight white people get treated badly, they can raise a fuss and be heard instantly.
If you're a minority, you run with the risk it could get you killed. That probably sounds screwed up, and that's because it is.
We don't have the capacity to combat ideas because we lack equal opportunity. Our rights are actively stomped on, but even a perceived slight and we get threads like this. At the same time, the only reason I started talking about my own experiences is because I see people on here actively insisting that rape and murder of minorities isn't a concern in the US. And that pisses me off to no end. People need to know. But I don't do this without stress. Even here on the internet, it makes me nauseous to talk about this crap. I usually opt for complete avoidance when possible. I'm trying not to do that because it is seriously important that people know what's going on.
And how much of a joke it is that the headline is "safe spaces" rather than why we might feel unsafe everywhere else.
