I don't know what to make of Wildstar

[RomanceIsDead]

As much as I want to buy this...somewhere deep down I keep hearing, "IT'S A TRAP".

It doesn't do PvP better than MOBAs.

It's PvE looks like a massive grind just to get to the fun part: 40 man raids

Why can't devs just release "40 MAN RAIDS: THE GAME" and be done with it?

 

[Muspelheim]

A group of Blizzard developers escaped from a dungeon guarded by Warmasterlord Metzen, and more or less grew their own MMO, basically.

Wildstar won't bring anything new to the table, that's for sure. However, will the meal they bring in be good enough to make up for that? Hell, a new MMO not attempting to remake the wheel feels oddly like a novelty, in many ways.

 

[Weaver]

Have you played it? I got into the beta, played for 2 hours, was really bored and thought the combat was much worse than Tera, then uninstalled it.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

i think this MMO is dead on arrival, theres barely any hype for it and they want to charge a subscription fee for it, they have cojones to try that and think they can succeed

 

[raeior]

Played the beta for a few hours but got bored extremely fast. The quests are boring as hell, you get the same dialogue line over and over for different quests, a lot of bugs (well it was a beta...), combat system wasn't my cup of tea either. World design is kinda neat though.
Stuff like the professions sounded cool at first but when you realize that "Scientist" only means "click on 5 different items in every region" it loses quite a bit of it's charm. At least the explorer or how it is called should be somewhat fun.

 

[zumbledum]

A group of Blizzard developers escaped from a dungeon guarded by Warmasterlord Metzen, and more or less grew their own MMO, basically.

Its just a bit of a shame that MMO happened to be a poor vanilla wow clone. telegraphs didnt add depth its just busy work and MMO's have had them for years but usually with the good sense to limit it to boss fights.

moving from dont stand in the fire to dont stand where the fire is going to be is not the paradigm shift in gameplay i was looking for.

 

[AdagioBoognish]

Yeah, I'm still on the fence as well. Played quite a bit in beta, but the professions were a little underwhelming. I chose settler because it sounded like we'd be able to build more permanent structures to help our army, but you just fix already placed objects that are more decorations than anything. I probably would have jumped back in at launch, but paying full price plus a monthly fee isn't for me.

 

[Vern5]

As much as I want to buy this...somewhere deep down I keep hearing, "IT'S A TRAP".

That's your Ackbar sense triggering because Wildstar IS a trap. It's a slightly more actiony WoW-clone but sci-fi rather than fantasy. I, too, played the beta and the whole thing is a grind fest with nothing that really sets it apart from any of the other thousands of MMOs out today. Don't waste your time with this one.

Off-Topic: For the record, I would totally play 40-man raids: The game. It sounds like a game that cuts out all of the grinding, let's you choose from a plethora of pre-leveled MMO archetypes and then just throws you into a raid with 39 other hapless morons. It would be the MOBA-slayer!

 

[Daniel Janhagen]

I love it! I think it has the best combat of any MMO I've played, the world has real character, there's cool stuff to discover all over the place, the adventures/dungeons are awesome. Looking back at it now, this is the game I wanted WoW to grow into all along.

The quests aren't awesome (well, some are), but the way you get them I approve of. The quest NPCs!
While I liked the way SWTOR did it, with directed cutscenes with actual editing, if you elect to NOT have that in your game, don't do the half measure so many games do (like FFXIV, where the NPCs just drone on for what feels like hours) - just let us "click-read-click-done"! Thumbs up.

I haven't done any pvp, but I couldn't compare that to a MOBA anyway, because I hate those.

 

[Cartographer]

Sounds like it's not the game for you.
But hey, the world would be awfully boring if everyone like the same thing (I'm sure there are still people out there who enjoy flight simulators... /shudder).

Personally, I love it. And I can totally see Mike Krahulik's point from Penny Arcade,

I found I'd been playing for an entire evening without once even looking at the tasks/story, just for the sheer joy of exploring, seeing the sights and lining up telegraphs to hit the maximum number of mobs.

I can already hear the rage-quits as people hit level 20 and try out the first dungeon. Expect voice comms to be mandatory for even basic multiplayer content.

 

[DanielBrown]

I hardly know anything about it, but based on the little gameplay I've seen it really doesn't look like a game I'd enjoy. Way too cartoony and I dislike the action-styled gameplay that has taken over the MMO market. Much prefer the old system, with tons of skills to choose from and limited movement. Checked some instance gameplay just now and it looks clusterfucky as hell.

 

[Bombiz]

Sounds like it's not the game for you.
But hey, the world would be awfully boring if everyone like the same thing (I'm sure there are still people out there who enjoy flight simulators... /shudder).

Personally, I love it. And I can totally see Mike Krahulik's point from Penny Arcade,

I found I'd been playing for an entire evening without once even looking at the tasks/story, just for the sheer joy of exploring, seeing the sights and lining up telegraphs to hit the maximum number of mobs.

I can already hear the rage-quits as people hit level 20 and try out the first dungeon. Expect voice comms to be mandatory for even basic multiplayer content.

you see I want to enjoy the games cause it seems fun but the beginning turned me off so much that i just couldn't continue. Cause in order to get to the fun exploring part you have to go through all of that grinding and questing that is so boring its mind numbing. idk I only play ~2 hours of open beta before quieting.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

I'm actually rather enjoying it. The humor and the style appealed to me, despite being an adult, and once I got the hang of the combat, I actually didn't mind it at all, really.

some people have complained that the story doesn't exist, or that certain things are unclear or difficult. I've put some thought into it and I came to the following conclusion:

Wildstar has no pity for you.

It has story, but if you want it, you'll have to actually take a moment and READ IT. It's not going to bash you over the head with a plot-point for every quest just because you're lazy. If you want story? Great. Take a moment and read the quest dialogue. If you just want to grind levels and race to the endgame? Go ahead. You choose your level of immersion in the story. Wildstar has no time for your whining. What part of "we're here to make this planet ours" did you not get in the opening cutscene and tutorial? Why else do you think most of the quest hubs are little more than tents and camps and the occasional military outpost or dusty garrison town? You're first wave on a brand-new, unsettled world. Visual consistency with the basic idea of the story. No pity.

It has combat, but MMO Raiding 101 states: "don't stand in the fire." Why should that be true for just raiding? If the mobs were all standard MMO fare, people would just complain that there's nothing new in the combat system. A friend of mine watched a group of seven people wipe on a "boss" mob during the Exile tutorial. He walked up to it, same level, and soloed the thing. Why did the group of seven fail? Because despite Telegraphs, despite OBVIOUS graphics, despite them TAKING DAMAGE, they STILL stood in the fire. Wildstar has no time for your "who can blow their load the fastest?" contests between you and the mobs. Go ahead. Stay stationary. When you die and rez at the graveyard, the yard will give you a snarky remark for your failure. Get off your butt, have some awareness, and move next time. No pity.

Nothing new on the talents/stats front? Pfft. Wildstar knows us. It knows the moment a reasonable amount of people hit endgame content the theorycrafting will start. Inside a month there will be a 'required' build for every role of every class in the game. Rift couldn't break that, even with it's plethora of choices in it's talent system. So piss on it. Why fight the inevitable when you could be devoting that time and brainpower to other things? Why should it waste time trying to make you into a special snowflake when you and it knows you'll be picking a pre-calculated talent and stat setup to play anyway? No pity.

----------------------

Yes, questing could be a bit more immersive, but from what I've seen there's plenty of cohesion if you actually make some effort. Yes, boss fights can be a bit of a mess or difficult, but...oh...what's that? Dark Souls is calling? Well why would that be, I wonder?

It's not perfect, but I think I've begun to see some of the philosophy behind the game, and if what I'm interpreting is right (which I may be totally off-base, as I can always be) if they hold this course and work at improving things? They could have a pretty good product on their hands.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I can already hear the rage-quits as people hit level 20 and try out the first dungeon. Expect voice comms to be mandatory for even basic multiplayer content.

The dungeons are great, but I almost soloed the first boss in the first dungeon on my 2nd try. My group wiped and I fought him alone for 5+ minutes before mislicking into a wisp. If you have a general level of gaming knowledge and can circle strafe and aim a cone, you can do fine. I'd hardly say voice comms are mandatory.

OT: I played Wildstar for...oh I dunno. 100 hours? 150 hours? Through winter beta into the spring. What started out seeming kind of fresh and snappy ended up feeling incredibly tedious and repetitive by the end. Not a fan of the combat system...not remotely. I think it's an active, LARGE step back.

The questing sprinkles little gems here and there in a great river of turgid boredom. There's a common refrain that it "gets better after level 15", and they're not lying...it does. It then proceeds to get DRAMATICALLY WORSE as you level up through your 30's and into 40's. Like killing an endless shit-ton of mobs for tiny incremental quest progress? I hope so, cuz you're playing WILDSTAR.

The game's sense of humor...sort of a "more juvenile" take on Borderlands...which shouldn't even have been possible...rankled me. HOLY SHIT YOU LEVELED UP CUPCAKE! I was like...heh. Then over the next X hours of play "heh" turned to "meh" turned to "oh god shut the fuck up". It's SNL sketch quality humor, stretched out over hundreds of hours. It will take a...certain type of person...to enjoy it.

Ultimately, as I have negative interest in the concept of moving backwards in time to an age where questing was boring, pointless bullshit and "end game" was the exercise in cat herding known as 40 man raiding, what promise Wildstar did show wilted on the vine for me. It's a game made by old school raiders for old school raiders, and is aggressively charmless in almost every other facet, save perhaps housing, which is great but under delivers on the promise it showed during early promotional videos.

Biggest MMO disappointment in recent memory.

Wildstar has no pity for you.

The game is being over-sold as a bastion for hardcore MMO players.

The five man and large group content is indeed atypically hard for the genre, albeit a genre that has become known for being piss-easy to an extent that is embarrassing. However, it's still a modern theme park MMO, which means you have to actively try to go off the rails and get yourself in trouble. Death penalty is mild to virtually non-existent, level differential provides huge bonuses in combat, and if you have the common sense of a grape and can step somewhat to the right when flashing telegraphs appear, solo content isn't any less numbingly easy than it is in most other entries in the genre.

EVERQUEST had no pity for you. Wildstar is just as hand-holdy and friendly as most of its peers. "Dark Souls the MMO" this is not.

 

[Gorrath]

Unfortunately, I found Wildstar to be eye-bleedingly tedious. The combat mechanics might be a hit or a miss for you, but every other single aspect of the game was trying its damndest to put me into a boredom coma.

Quests? Go here, kill five of X, or kill as many of X is needed to get enough Y, or go here and talk to Z. I didn't go on a single quest that wasn't the most basic, formulaic nonsense I got bored of ten years ago.

Classes? Same old, same old here. Earn your levels, earn your points, expend on skill-tree.

Professions? Seemed like a neat idea, until I found out that my whole job was clicking on flashing, permanent objects on the ground enough times to then go to a predetermined position and set up a place that granted minor buffs for a limited time, or just click on a few objects in each area to catalog them. It felt like busywork that had no real impact on the world.

Outside of limited combat tweaks, you're pretty much looking at every MMO ever, which sounds cliche and trite, but that's what the game is, cliche and trite. If someone feels the need to correct my opinion because they love the game, no need, I promise. I am glad you are having a blast and I hope the game lasts a long time and you get maximum enjoyment from it. It's simply not the game for me.

 

[Worgen]

Visually I think the game looks really interesting but from what I've seen of the actual gameplay, it looks rather lackluster. Besides, I already have an mmo, Guild Wars 2, and it doesn't cost a monthly fee so I don't feel like I HAVE to play it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Outside of limited combat tweaks, you're pretty much looking at every MMO ever

Although foes of the genre might look and see a line of lamentable "WoW clones" (none of which came close to capturing WoW's scope, imagination, or mechanics, which is reflected in respective sales), there are still incredible opportunities for creativity in MMO design. The original titans of the genre...EQ, AC, UO, SWG, etc, were all wildly different from one another, and extraordinary games for their time. What you're seeing is desire for ROI on games that are enormous financial risks. MMOs are expensive, and with their high cost comes a commensurate level of cowardice when it comes to how far most producers/developers are willing to stray from "the formula". Which in this case means aping WoW, which...good luck aping a ten year old game with billions of dollars poured into it. You'll get hammered on content depth/breadth every single time.

This is an excellent video on MMOS, and how they've become somewhat broken.


I recommend the channel in general. Guy takes ages between videos but they're always thoughtful, interesting, and well researched.

 

[Gorrath]

Outside of limited combat tweaks, you're pretty much looking at every MMO ever

Although foes of the genre might look and see a line of lamentable "WoW clones" (none of which came close to capturing WoW's scope, imagination, or mechanics, which is reflected in respective sales), there are still incredible opportunities for creativity in MMO design. The original titans of the genre...EQ, AC, UO, SWG, etc, were all wildly different from one another, and extraordinary games for their time. What you're seeing is desire for ROI on games that are enormous financial risks. MMOs are expensive, and with their high cost comes a commensurate level of cowardice when it comes to how far most producers/developers are willing to stray from "the formula". Which in this case means aping WoW, which...good luck aping a ten year old game with billions of dollars poured into it. You'll get hammered on content depth/breadth every single time.

This is an excellent video on MMOS, and how they've become somewhat broken.


I recommend the channel in general. Guy takes ages between videos but they're always thoughtful, interesting, and well researched.

Oh quite, I've been playing MMOs since the indie MUD scene back in the mid 90's. For my pennies, Dark Age of Camelot is the best MMO I've ever played, hands down. I agree that there are incredible things that can and even have been done with the genre. EvE (even as much as I don't like it) is a great example of how one can create an MMO that does not rely on the same dynamics as so many do. Every MMO had its problems, but as you say, they were at least significantly different from one another in key ways, and most importantly of all, MMOs used to give a sense of ownership to the players. EvE still does this, which is why I think it has remained quite popular. Even WOW, as much as I also don't like it, is the best at what it does.

I don't know how many MMOs have come out trying to keep the core WoW experience with a few hollow tricks tacked on, but I've read endless interviews with MMO developers making the "Next great thing!" where they say that NOT aping WoW would be crazy. Their game then goes on to fail spectacularly anyway. I'll pine away from DAoC 2 until I'm dead I think, but I am looking at the new EQ games with some hope in my heart.

EDIT: Thanks for the video by the way and the channel it comes from!

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Oh quite, I've been playing MMOs since the indie MUD scene back in the mid 90's. For my pennies, Dark Age of Camelot is the best MMO I've ever played, hands down. I agree that there are incredible things that can and even have been done with the genre. EvE (even as much as I don't like it) is a great example of how one can create an MMO that does not rely on the same dynamics as so many do. Every MMO had its problems, but as you say, they were at least significantly different from one another in key ways, and most importantly of all, MMOs used to give a sense of ownership to the players. EvE still does this, which is why I think it has remained quite popular. Even WOW, as much as I also don't like it, is the best at what it does.

I don't know how many MMOs have come out trying to keep the core WoW experience with a few hollow tricks tacked on, but I've read endless interviews with MMO developers making the "Next great thing!" where they say that NOT aping WoW would be crazy. Their game then goes on to fail spectacularly anyway. I'll pine away from DAoC 2 until I'm dead I think, but I am looking at the new EQ games with some hope in my heart.

EDIT: Thanks for the video by the way and the channel it comes from!

An Old School MMO brother! SoW plz.

I also loved DAoC, but with Mythic dead and gone, and really all we had was their corpse shambling around for a great many years, I don't see a sequel happening. Camelot Unchained is kickstarted and...let's be honest...doomed to failure. These are 50 million, 100 million games. What's he going to do with 2-4? Unless Mark Jacobs has a goose that lays golden eggs he's up a creek. It's sad that GW2, TSW and TESO have all tried to ape the "faction vs faction vs faction" combat with various degrees of zero success. There WAS something special about DAoC. An attachment to the "home team" that modern iterations have not managed to duplicate.

I too am interested in EQN, although so far all I'm "interested in" is a bunch of vapor, since we know next to nothing. But they invoked the holy sandbox when describing it, so my interest is piqued. I WAS interested in World of Darkness, but CCP pulled an EA on it. Titan is in shambles and likely won't arrive in any form that resembles an MMO. Short of Blizzard hopping out from behind a bush and announcing WoW 2.0, it's EQN or bust right now. The genre is in rickety condition.

I love that channel. Most if not all of his videos are worth a listen. The Mass Effect ones were especial classics.

 

[Gorrath]

An Old School MMO brother! SoW plz.

I also loved DAoC, but with Mythic dead and gone, and really all we had was their corpse shambling around for a great many years, I don't see a sequel happening. Camelot Unchained is kickstarted and...let's be honest...doomed to failure. These are 50 million, 100 million games. What's he going to do with 2-4? Unless Mark Jacobs has a goose that lays golden eggs he's up a creek. It's sad that GW2, TSW and TESO have all tried to ape the "faction vs faction vs faction" combat with various degrees of zero success. There WAS something special about DAoC. An attachment to the "home team" that modern iterations have not managed to duplicate.

I too am interested in EQN, although so far all I'm "interested in" is a bunch of vapor, since we know next to nothing. But they invoked the holy sandbox when describing it, so my interest is piqued. I WAS interested in World of Darkness, but CCP pulled an EA on it. Titan is in shambles and likely won't arrive in any form that resembles an MMO. Short of Blizzard hopping out from behind a bush and announcing WoW 2.0, it's EQN or bust right now. The genre is in rickety condition.

I love that channel. Most if not all of his videos are worth a listen. The Mass Effect ones were especial classics.

Totally agree, DAoC managed to fashion such a powerful "us vs them" mentality that, despite its MANY flaws (freaking Atlantis BS!) I was always craving more time to get on and find a nice Alb or Hib to munch on. Throw in a crafting system that was pretty much perfectly balanced and it gave people something to do when they just felt like sitting in guild chat. I don't think I've seen an MMO balance dropped items and player crafted items so well, as you just plain freakin needed both. Grabbing a guild hall, killing a dragon, and mounting that thing's head above the fireplace was a bit of bliss. SWG is about the only one I ever played that might have surpassed DAoC in the player/guild housing department.

Sorry, you've got me reminiscing again, my point is that if we could have an MMO that did so many things right fifteen years ago, why on Earth can't we capture that magic again now? Maybe it's not them, maybe it's me, but these newer MMOs don't even seem to grow into greatness. They seem to stagnate and die.

I'm not holding my breath for DAoC 2, as much as I would love to see it come to fruition, but as you say, EQN and that sandbox promise (as vague and nebulous as it is) is all that is keeping me interested in the genre at the moment. Cheers to you mate!