I don't think home consoles will survive the next generation

[Xprimentyl]

This argument again? Why is someone always pitting PCs against consoles or vice versa? It?s not a competition! Consoles obviously compete against one another, but none of them are even trying to outdo PCs save for in the area of affordability and convenience.

As long as we continue to be a society of convenience, there will be a healthy market of ?pick up and play? gamers like myself who just want to buy a game and play it without having to worry if my constantly outmoded PC can handle it, or worse yet, constantly dumping money into my constantly outmoded PC to ensure I can play the latest and greatest games. I have an Xbox and it plays Xbox games. Done. Happy. Do those Xbox games look and perform as nicely as they would on a $3,000 gaming PC? Nope and couldn?t care less because for a fraction of the price, I?m getting a pretty damn good analogue. I don?t need ?the best,? and never shall the day come that publishers and developers collectively think developing only for ?the best? is a viable business strategy.

Besides, despite my personal underutilization of such features, this generation has opened up consoles as media centers inviting the whole family to partake be it for TV, video streaming, gaming, Internet access, etc. It?s simple and cheap, much more so that centralizing a PC in a similar way.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Considering it's extremely hard to perform upkeep/maintenance on a PC it's not worth it IMO.

Hah, yeah it's extremely hard if you have absolutely zero knowledge about technology.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

I think this outlook is wrong for a couple of points.

1) No matter how simple PC's are getting these days, they will never outdo the consoles on convenience in setup. It may even be an illusion, my XBONE gave me a lot of shit while installing and downloading games, but that's where it is. You won't find a cheap gaming PC from Walmart, and that goes to my next point:

2) Price point. Yes, gaming PC's can be built for chips. But that relies on you building one yourself, or finding used. Which ties back to point 1. You can find used consoles too, you can also buy consoles on black friday sales for $250. So same thing either way.

3) They make tidy gifts, it's hard enough to choose the right console bundle as a gift (do they want FIFA, Uncharted, CoD?), let alone trying to get someone a computer with the right specs.

4) Microsoft going cross-platform is not an issue, it's a good thing. However, this will not take away from their console market just yet, at least not in the next generation. If you think Xbox games for windows or whatever it's called is any competition for Steam, you probably have not tried to install and play a single game on it yet. (Hint: It's a fucking mess, up to now).

Let me iterate here also that I'm a 99% PC GAMER, and have been for the last 25+ years. Though I've owned at least one console every generation, I'm always primarily a PC Gamer, because of my knowhow it always works out cheaper with game sales, gradual upgrades, and simply utilizing my computer for a lot more other stuff other than gaming.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Those multiplatform sales don't help the console makers though. All of those sales have percentages given to the developers of the games who are third party. If a game can be gotten on any system then it means people have less reason to buy one system over another and multiplatform games have increased by a huge amount.

Sure they do. Every sale of a PS4 game, even a multi-platform one, nets Sony royalty fees, same for Xbox games for Microsoft and Wii games for Nintendo. More pertinently, you missed my point:
- Both the PS4 and the Xbox, each on their own, outsell the PC when it comes to multi-platform games. This can be in the realm of selling an order of magnitude more on either console compared to PC games. Consoles are still the dominant gaming platform in terms of sales numbers of multi-platform games. As long as that remains true, consoles are not going anywhere.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Considering it's extremely hard to perform upkeep/maintenance on a PC it's not worth it IMO.

Hah, yeah it's extremely hard if you have absolutely zero knowledge about technology.

Consoles require maintenance too. This mindset is like... buying a bicycle but refusing to ever fix the tires or lube it. And maintaining a PC is easier than maintaining a bike.

Hardware wise I'd probably agree with you, but take the software into account and PC maintenance is a delicate art. For most people it is way too easy to get some bloatware/spyware onto your computer, make some bad installation calls and end up with untold loads of temp files that clog up the system. Hardware wise a computer (and a console) is basically "dust regularly and blow the fans with compressed air occasionally", but software wise it is a constant fiddling to make sure the OS isn't backed up with loads of unnecessary background apps, the registry isn't bloated with old reg entries etc.. It takes a concerted effort to keep PC software well-maintained.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I think this outlook is wrong for a couple of points.

1) No matter how simple PC's are getting these days, they will never outdo the consoles on convenience in setup. It may even be an illusion, my XBONE gave me a lot of shit while installing and downloading games, but that's where it is. You won't find a cheap gaming PC from Walmart, and that goes to my next point:

I don't see what's so hard about downloading Steam and then buying and downloading a game on there...

2) Price point. Yes, gaming PC's can be built for chips. But that relies on you building one yourself, or finding used. Which ties back to point 1. You can find used consoles too, you can also buy consoles on black friday sales for $250. So same thing either way.

Or you can buy a PC that can game and then use it for everything else that isn't gaming on top of that. No need to buy a home console when you can play most of the games on it on a PC that will also do other things for you.

4) Microsoft going cross-platform is not an issue, it's a good thing. However, this will not take away from their console market just yet, at least not in the next generation. If you think Xbox games for windows or whatever it's called is any competition for Steam, you probably have not tried to install and play a single game on it yet. (Hint: It's a fucking mess, up to now).

Er.... then my argument is even better. You just said yourself that Steam is much better at that.

Let me iterate here also that I'm a 99% PC GAMER, and have been for the last 25+ years. Though I've owned at least one console every generation, I'm always primarily a PC Gamer, because of my knowhow it always works out cheaper with game sales, gradual upgrades, and simply utilizing my computer for a lot more other stuff other than gaming.

The sheer number of cross platform games is making the prospect of buying a console less and less appealing. - And my break is over so I can't talk more...

 

[SupahEwok]

After spending a week dealing with my brother's old Xbox 360 not running Ace Combat 6 well, doing everything up to and including taking the console apart to dust it out, and *still* aren't up to regular performance, I have my doubts over the "convenience" and "plug and play" aspects of modern consoles. (Note modern. The fucking PS2 plays AC5 no problemo).

No, consoles have increasingly been taking up the negative characteristics of PCs as they've come closer to becoming them: complexity, broken releases, etc. They don't come close to the positive side of PC gaming either.

That said, I don't see consoles ever really dying. They'll just keep going on the track of becoming an all-in-one living room multimedia machine. You can have a PC for that, but there's more DIY involved. If consoles can get affordable VR to work, that'll be a big boost for them. VR for a sufficiently powerful console should in theory be easier than a PC, due to standard builds. That's really what I think they should be pushing for. Sony seems to recognize it at least.

Edit: I'd like to reply to a few points, but since a lot of people are making the same ones, and because I'm on a phone which makes quote editting a *****, I'm not quoting anyone in particular.

It is true that a AAA game playing $400 PC is stupid. However, it's also stupid in the other way to claim that that kind of PC costs $1500. Do you know why nobody includes the price of mice and keyboards? Because in addition to most everybody having them lying around from back before tablets, they're *cheap*. You can buy a $20 mouse and $20 keyboard and be just fine. Most of those labeled "4 LEET GAMURZ" are both tacky and a financial rip off. Power supplies and monitors are more meaty, but a lot of TVs can double as monitors for those of us who gotta count pennies, and excellent quality power supplies for a build that aims for just above parity with modern consoles is only around $80. Toss in a copy of Home Windows, your only looking at a $200 cost add on (not including monitors because it occurs to me that if the price of a TV doesn't factor into consoles, why should it factor to a PC? Double standards).

With the add-ons factored in and assuming building from scratch, a PC with more power than modern consoles is achievable for around 900 bucks. If anybody wants me to prove it, say so and I'll put together a build myself. You need to learn some technical stuff, but it's no worse than, say, designing a kitchen or buying furniture for a room or getting a lawnmower, which most everybody can bring themselves to do. Just like those things, all it takes is a weekend of research.

Oh, I bet some of the price disparity comes from buying whole PCs, rather than putting it together yourself. Don't do that. Don't ever do that. It's a total rip. You can't buy any individual pieces when they're on sale, and they charge you hundreds of dollars to do what you can do in an hour.

Really, a lot of PC fears I think are holdovers from the late 90's that somehow manage to stick around. It's kinda silly. Things are much better documented these days, and parts are much more accessible for handling yourself.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

I think this outlook is wrong for a couple of points.

1) No matter how simple PC's are getting these days, they will never outdo the consoles on convenience in setup. It may even be an illusion, my XBONE gave me a lot of shit while installing and downloading games, but that's where it is. You won't find a cheap gaming PC from Walmart, and that goes to my next point:

I don't see what's so hard about downloading Steam and then buying and downloading a game on there...

I don't see what's so hard about it either. I do it on all my computers, home, office, simulator, laptop, AND htpc, and stream game across all, it's that easy and seamless. But yet, there are people complaining that computers are "too technical", "I just want to put in the disc and play", "I don't have time to learn how to do all that stuff, install drivers etc" and all kinds of excuses.

2) Price point. Yes, gaming PC's can be built for chips. But that relies on you building one yourself, or finding used. Which ties back to point 1. You can find used consoles too, you can also buy consoles on black friday sales for $250. So same thing either way.

Or you can buy a PC that can game and then use it for everything else that isn't gaming on top of that. No need to buy a home console when you can play most of the games on it on a PC that will also do other things for you.

I know PCs can do more. I wasn't talking about that, this point was about cost. All I'm saying is you can get a console for $250-$300. Hard to build a computer to beat one at that price, unless used.

4) Microsoft going cross-platform is not an issue, it's a good thing. However, this will not take away from their console market just yet, at least not in the next generation. If you think Xbox games for windows or whatever it's called is any competition for Steam, you probably have not tried to install and play a single game on it yet. (Hint: It's a fucking mess, up to now).

Er.... then my argument is even better. You just said yourself that Steam is much better at that.

Yes STEAM is much better, but for trying to sway people from XBOX, the XBOX for Windows does NOT. I bought Forza Horizon 3 to play on PC, it ran like a steaming pile of shit, guess what? I bought a goddamn XBOX to make my purchase worthwhile. Bitter? Yes, but the console stays stronger in those exclusives, which as long as they exist, will keep consoles alive.

Let me iterate here also that I'm a 99% PC GAMER, and have been for the last 25+ years. Though I've owned at least one console every generation, I'm always primarily a PC Gamer, because of my knowhow it always works out cheaper with game sales, gradual upgrades, and simply utilizing my computer for a lot more other stuff other than gaming.

The sheer number of cross platform games is making the prospect of buying a console less and less appealing. - And my break is over so I can't talk more...

I will agree on this. I came into this generation sworn on buying a PS4. And I still don't have one. Because apart from Uncharted 4 and maaaaaybe Yakuza or God of War, I happily rather play everything else on my PCs. But I don't represent the majority is what I'm saying.

 

[Deadguy2322]

After spending a week dealing with my brother's old Xbox 360 not running Ace Combat 6 well, doing everything up to and including taking the console apart to dust it out, and *still* aren't up to regular performance, I have my doubts over the "convenience" and "plug and play" aspects of modern consoles. (Note modern. The fucking PS2 plays AC5 no problemo).

No, consoles have increasingly been taking up the negative characteristics of PCs as they've come closer to becoming them: complexity, broken releases, etc. They don't come close to the positive side of PC gaming either.

That said, I don't see consoles ever really dying. They'll just keep going on the track of becoming an all-in-one living room multimedia machine. You can have a PC for that, but there's more DIY involved. If consoles can get affordable VR to work, that'll be a big boost for them. VR for a sufficiently powerful console should in theory be easier than a PC, due to standard builds. That's really what I think they should be pushing for. Sony seems to recognize it at least.

Edit: I'd like to reply to a few points, but since a lot of people are making the same ones, and because I'm on a phone which makes quote editting a *****, I'm not quoting anyone in particular.

It is true that a AAA game playing $400 PC is stupid. However, it's also stupid in the other way to claim that that kind of PC costs $1500. Do you know why nobody includes the price of mice and keyboards? Because in addition to most everybody having them lying around from back before tablets, they're *cheap*. You can buy a $20 mouse and $20 keyboard and be just fine. Most of those labeled "4 LEET GAMURZ" are both tacky and a financial rip off. Power supplies and monitors are more meaty, but a lot of TVs can double as monitors for those of us who gotta count pennies, and excellent quality power supplies for a build that aims for just above parity with modern consoles is only around $80. Toss in a copy of Home Windows, your only looking at a $200 cost add on (not including monitors because it occurs to me that if the price of a TV doesn't factor into consoles, why should it factor to a PC? Double standards).

With the add-ons factored in and assuming building from scratch, a PC with more power than modern consoles is achievable for around 900 bucks. If anybody wants me to prove it, say so and I'll put together a build myself. You need to learn some technical stuff, but it's no worse than, say, designing a kitchen or buying furniture for a room or getting a lawnmower, which most everybody can bring themselves to do. Just like those things, all it takes is a weekend of research.

Oh, I bet some of the price disparity comes from buying whole PCs, rather than putting it together yourself. Don't do that. Don't ever do that. It's a total rip. You can't buy any individual pieces when they're on sale, and they charge you hundreds of dollars to do what you can do in an hour.

Really, a lot of PC fears I think are holdovers from the late 90's that somehow manage to stick around. It's kinda silly. Things are much better documented these days, and parts are much more accessible for handling yourself.

Ok, so since Microsoft built shitty hardware that people were stupid to buy to begin with, and you can build a PC for a touch under $1000, everyone should buy a PC? Sure, we?ll get RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT on that. LMFAO

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

With the add-ons factored in and assuming building from scratch, a PC with more power than modern consoles is achievable for around 900 bucks. If anybody wants me to prove it, say so and I'll put together a build myself. You need to learn some technical stuff, but it's no worse than, say, designing a kitchen or buying furniture for a room or getting a lawnmower, which most everybody can bring themselves to do. Just like those things, all it takes is a weekend of research.

Oh, I bet some of the price disparity comes from buying whole PCs, rather than putting it together yourself. Don't do that. Don't ever do that. It's a total rip. You can't buy any individual pieces when they're on sale, and they charge you hundreds of dollars to do what you can do in an hour.

Really, a lot of PC fears I think are holdovers from the late 90's that somehow manage to stick around. It's kinda silly. Things are much better documented these days, and parts are much more accessible for handling yourself.

For $900, you can buy a great pre-built PC, that's enough for a gaming laptop let alone a desktop. For $500, you can build a pretty nice and powerful desktop, and that's buying brand new parts across the board; spend $100 on a CPU (AMD obviously), spend $150-200 on a video card, and the rest is pretty easy to fill-in after that at about $50 a piece more or less (case, RAM, mobo, PSU, HD). Maybe find a few deals as well.

I've had 3 friends just recently have issues due to Windows updates, of which I've had 2 turn off updates. One friend said a Windows 10 update messed up World of Warships and now he can't play it, he said something about not being able to undo the update because being in the Windows Insider program and has to keep Windows 10 updated. I don't update really anything on my PC; I use a 7-year old version of a firewall because newer versions became bloated and less customizable, I don't run any anti-virus or spyware software, I use a version of GoldWave from 2002 for editing audio because, again, it's better than newer versions. So, yeah, PCs require very little maintenance to basically no maintenance if you know what you're doing; however, most people don't know much about PCs.

So that's why lots of people prefer consoles still and always will. I'm a PC tech and I prefer consoles because I don't wanna deal with some little issue cropping up that can take an hour of googling to find the solution. Consoles don't have software issues and the games just work. Sure, there's an exception to that every once in a great while. And, it's a box you don't have to build and that's designed for the entertainment center vs a computer desk. Lots of people don't like playing games on their desk. Also, remember Steam refunds are a pretty damn new thing that started literally this generation and controller support being fully supported (or near fully supported) now is also a pretty new thing for PC gaming. So the fear of downloading a PC game, it not working, and you being suck with it is a fear that just went a away. Even getting a controller to work wasn't simple just a little bit ago. I remember having to download some Japanese DualShock3 drivers to play Dungeon Fighter Online last-gen with a controller.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The slow read speed of Blu-ray discs, for one.

The system boot up and operating systems are slow too... Company logos (splash screens) that can never be skipped or deleted.

With a PS4, I'd have to plug my headphones in and out of the controller just to get good sound.

Not being able to play my old games.

Having to use antiquated PS1 controllers for every kind of game. If Killzone 2 supported a mouse and keyboard, I might have finished it. I also would have preferred Uncharted, Red Dead Redemption and maybe even MGS4 with a M/KB.

Do a lot of PS4 games have locked save files? It really bugged with the Souls games. The only way to back up your save file was to buy the multiplayer subscription.

-The blu-ray drive only reads the disc the 1st time you play as it installs as you play the 1st time.

-PS4's standby mode is super fast (SSD fast) and no company logos there if you continue the same game.

-I still have my PS3 (and still have a backlog on it). And, MGO2 just came back online, the community brought it back. There's more people on MGO2 than MGO3.

-Sure the KB/M is more accurate because of the mouse, but most people prefer controllers. I myself hate the KB part of the KB/M. The standard dual-stick setup is really really accurate and fast once you get used to it. In MGO2, the pros will headshot you across the map in a split second.

-I actually don't know if there's locked saves. I just upload to the cloud because it's so convenient. I recall on PS3 getting a message when you uploaded a locked save that you could only access it like once every 24 hours or something like that, I haven't seen that message on PS4 so maybe no locked saves.

 

[Chewster]

Hardware wise I'd probably agree with you, but take the software into account and PC maintenance is a delicate art. For most people it is way too easy to get some bloatware/spyware onto your computer, make some bad installation calls and end up with untold loads of temp files that clog up the system. Hardware wise a computer (and a console) is basically "dust regularly and blow the fans with compressed air occasionally", but software wise it is a constant fiddling to make sure the OS isn't backed up with loads of unnecessary background apps, the registry isn't bloated with old reg entries etc.. It takes a concerted effort to keep PC software well-maintained.

It's also a matter of keeping up with knowledge. How's the old saying go? As soon as you take your parts out of the box, they are obsolete. Personal example time: I was fairly knowledgeable about computers in high school. Not expert level, but I managed to build a couple functional rigs using old computer parts purchased from friends and at computer trade shows. The first go around, it worked out about the same as buying a regular computer once I factored in the monitor and other peripherals and OS software.

It's about fifteen years on and I've let my knowledge lapse and I'm kind of useless with computers now. If you don't keep constantly upgrading, constantly learning about new hardware and software, you fall behind. Computer tech evolves at a more even pace and it takes effort to stay abreast of that. Maybe not a lot, but many people don't have time to learn about how complicated computers can be. As long as consoles remain a relatively hassle free and cheapish alternative, they will always exist. You just buy it, you plug it in and it's good for the entire console generation of five or so years.

 

[dscross]

I agree with some contributors that it's convenience that will keep them going - I think this is what appeals to consumers. It's like with anything in life, the most successful stuff comes out of making life easier for people - just to plug into their TV and play (even if the PC ports are better in some cases). People pay for convenience.

To use an analogy - take food. We all know food would be of higher quality, better for you and cheaper if we made everything ourselves. However, it would take longer and we can't be arsed so we pay for junk food that's pre-made at massively hiked up prices. It's a sad fact about society and psychology.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Considering it's extremely hard to perform upkeep/maintenance on a PC it's not worth it IMO.

Hah, yeah it's extremely hard if you have absolutely zero knowledge about technology.

Consoles require maintenance too. This mindset is like... buying a bicycle but refusing to ever fix the tires or lube it. And maintaining a PC is easier than maintaining a bike.

I've had my PS3 Slim about 8 years next month, and all I've done is optionally install a bigger HDD. Well, I also put some rubber .25" bumpers on the bottom to keep it elevated for better heat dispersion, but beyond that it just gets dusted like the rest of the house every couple weeks.

My PC is a year and a half older and still going. I started with a high end motherboard and it's slowly and steadily been upgraded to the gills. I can still get 60fps in MKXL with max textures and some other frivolous settings on medium or low. It's been greatly reliable but I've also upgraded all the major components aside from the motherboard and PSU at least once, and I recently needed a new Ethernet card. I also open the case up to clean it which I've never done on the console.

Of course, I use it far more often than the console, but not really sure how the bike analogy correlates to maintenance levels between the two.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Consoles are mass market devices, and the mass market is the most important aspect of the entire medium where much of the industry is concerned. Gaming as a whole would suffer without populist support.

...well, it would suffer for many people. The elitists/master-race-ists tend to only care about themselves because they still cling to the notion it is 'their' medium.

Consoles require maintenance too. This mindset is like... buying a bicycle but refusing to ever fix the tires or lube it. And maintaining a PC is easier than maintaining a bike.

Care to tell me how I've 'maintained' my Xbox Elite since getting it? Does dusting it count?

Oh, sometimes I had to clear the local cache on Fallout 4 when messing about with mods, an act of 'maintenance' that required me to hold down the power button for a few seconds longer than usual. I'd love to see any PC be that easy to 'maintain'.

Really, a lot of PC fears I think are holdovers from the late 90's that somehow manage to stick around. It's kinda silly. Things are much better documented these days, and parts are much more accessible for handling yourself.

You seem to be fundamentally missing the appeal of convenience.

The ideal is that you buy a device, set it up, and it continues to function as desired until it dies a death, e.g. a Blu-ray player, smart TV, or set-top box. Any dicking around is offputting. 'Enthusiasts' in all kinds of fields of interest like, or are prepared, to tinker - no one else does, nor should they be expected to.

If I want to game, I want to press maybe two buttons: one for power, t'other to select/launch a game. Anything more is an intrusive irritation.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Also, it wouldn't matter if the file is locked. You can upload locked files as much as regular files. The difference is that you can't back up locked files to a USB stick.

This seems to be different on PS4. I was planning to mess with a build so I just backed up my save data for DS2: SotFS to USB last night. MGSV and Bloodborne also worked. I guess perhaps enough people bitched, because I thought at least FROM locked all their game save data to cloud only, unless it was only on PS3.