I don't think home consoles will survive the next generation

[Kerg3927]

Excuse me? I'm an American, I already own a TV, which I use to watch TV on and play video games on. If I'm gonna buy a gaming PC I'm not gonna use my TV so I'm gonna need a new monitor

Why won't you use your TV for your PC? As you said, you already play games on your TV. Why would it matter whether it's a PC or console that you hooked up to it? Heck, most games on PC support controllers as well, so you don't even need to use KB+M if you don't like that.

I can't speak for everyone, but where I live (Texas), most people have a TV in their living room where they watch it from a couch or recliner. If they play games on a console, they do it there, with a controller. People that have a PC have it set up at a desk or table, because they need to use a keyboard and mouse. Yes, you can use a controller to game on a PC, but people use a PC for things other than gaming, and for those other uses, you need to use a KB&M, which doesn't work very well from the recliner. And if you're going to be sitting at a desk, it's preferable to have the screen right in front of you instead of across the room.

It's really two different markets if you think about. Living room gaming vs. gaming while sitting at a desk.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Also, do PC games really take up more place? Diablo 3 takes up 17gb on my PC while on my PS4 it takes up over 50gb for some reason. MGSV takes up 29gb on both my PC and PS4. Resident Evil 5 is 9gb on my PC while being 17gb on my PS4.

12 games on my PS4 takes up almost 350GB.

Oh, I forgot to respond to this. I have very few PC games, I just remember seeing headlines for a few games like Gears of War 4 and the latest COD where the PC install size was over 100GBs. Not that all PC games are that HD hungry but console games don't nearly get that high, but it would make sense that PC games would take up at least a bit more space considering higher resolutions and better textures and whatnot.

Everything will break eventually. I just choose not to worry about it.

How is formatting a myth? It does what I want, clean out my hard-drives. I've never in my life gotten a virus or a windows update that messed with my PC either.

Well SSDs are much much more in the non-breaking territory than HDDs. A HDD can crash tomorrow or 10 years from now, it's not guaranteed to work for X amount of time/use. Something that stores data you just can't lose needs a some kind of redundancy.

Just deleting files you don't need cleans out the HD; if you wanna clean the whole drive, just go root and hit Crtl+A then Shift+Delete. The only time you should format a drive is when it's brand new and hasn't been formatted. Then the only time afterwards you'd format is only on your OS partition when changing OSs.

 

[sanquin]

Excuse me? I'm an American, I already own a TV, which I use to watch TV on and play video games on. If I'm gonna buy a gaming PC I'm not gonna use my TV so I'm gonna need a new monitor

Why won't you use your TV for your PC? As you said, you already play games on your TV. Why would it matter whether it's a PC or console that you hooked up to it? Heck, most games on PC support controllers as well, so you don't even need to use KB+M if you don't like that.

I can't speak for everyone, but where I live (Texas), most people have a TV in their living room where they watch it from a couch or recliner. If they play games on a console, they do it there, with a controller. People that have a PC have it set up at a desk or table, because they need to use a keyboard and mouse. Yes, you can use a controller to game on a PC, but people use a PC for things other than gaming, and for those other uses, you need to use a KB&M, which doesn't work very well from the recliner. And if you're going to be sitting at a desk, it's preferable to have the screen right in front of you instead of across the room.

It's really two different markets if you think about. Living room gaming vs. gaming while sitting at a desk.

There's no reason you can't, for instance, buy a pc only for gaming. And have a laptop or something for other stuff. That's the thing. The PC CAN do a lot more than just play games, but you don't have to use all that extra stuff. Over a few years the cost would still be lower in the long run. As the money you'd save on no online play subscriptions needed and buying games during steam sales for instance, would far outweigh the extra cost to buy a PC just to game on. And despite what some might say, you really don't need new parts every year. You can do just fine with the same PC for 3~5 years depending on how carefully you pick your hardware.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

There's no reason you can't, for instance, buy a pc only for gaming. And have a laptop or something for other stuff. That's the thing. The PC CAN do a lot more than just play games, but you don't have to use all that extra stuff. Over a few years the cost would still be lower in the long run. As the money you'd save on no online play subscriptions needed and buying games during steam sales for instance, would far outweigh the extra cost to buy a PC just to game on. And despite what some might say, you really don't need new parts every year. You can do just fine with the same PC for 3~5 years depending on how carefully you pick your hardware.

Yeah, there's no reason you can't but the average consumer isn't going to buy a PC to put in the entertainment room to game, which is why consoles won't die off next generation. Not to mention, a console plus a normal PC costs less than a gaming PC (even the potato masher). Yeah, Steam has better sales overall but there's decent to good sales quite often at stores (like Best Buy) and on PSN/Live. Also, console gamers can sell their games (which every PC gamer that argues PC gaming is cheaper fails to acknowledge) and not need to wait for a sale to play whatever game they want on day 1 and not spend $60 on it. I think I spent $10 total on The Order and I bought it on release day (I was hoping for a good story and it had Nikola Tesla and it was short so I had to give it a shot, not much to lose other than a few bucks and a few hours).

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Also, do PC games really take up more place? Diablo 3 takes up 17gb on my PC while on my PS4 it takes up over 50gb for some reason. MGSV takes up 29gb on both my PC and PS4. Resident Evil 5 is 9gb on my PC while being 17gb on my PS4.

12 games on my PS4 takes up almost 350GB.

Oh, I forgot to respond to this. I have very few PC games, I just remember seeing headlines for a few games like Gears of War 4 and the latest COD where the PC install size was over 100GBs. Not that all PC games are that HD hungry but console games don't nearly get that high, but it would make sense that PC games would take up at least a bit more space considering higher resolutions and better textures and whatnot.

Everything will break eventually. I just choose not to worry about it.

How is formatting a myth? It does what I want, clean out my hard-drives. I've never in my life gotten a virus or a windows update that messed with my PC either.

Well SSDs are much much more in the non-breaking territory than HDDs. A HDD can crash tomorrow or 10 years from now, it's not guaranteed to work for X amount of time/use. Something that stores data you just can't lose needs a some kind of redundancy.

Just deleting files you don't need cleans out the HD; if you wanna clean the whole drive, just go root and hit Crtl+A then Shift+Delete. The only time you should format a drive is when it's brand new and hasn't been formatted. Then the only time afterwards you'd format is only on your OS partition when changing OSs.

Gears of War 4 was bigger than the XB1 version (55gb vs 80gb) but both the PC and XB1 version is now around 115gb. COD:IW was only over 100gigs if you bought the legacy edition which included the remastered COD4. My point was however that games doesn't necessarily take more space on PC, it could very well be the other way around.

I do have a SSD with my OS installed on it, I also have a m.2 SSD, I still don't think that just owning one HDD is stupid. While it's true that HDDs breaks more often than SSD doesn't mean they're prone to break easily.

I do it on my drive with my OS when I want it to pretty much factory reset.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I have a Switch, 3DS, a PS4 Pro, a decent laptop, and a PC gaming rig (looks ugly as sin, but frankly PCs with Christmas lights is fucking stupid), and I use all three on occasion. And that's just this generation of console. In storage I have a NES, a SNES, a PS1, PS2, N64, GC, Wii, PS3, two minilaptops (mostly uni devices, but I tweaked one out I use still for notes and low resource intensive research that I can play Close Combat games on break between study sessions).

I like all of them. If you're buying a decent gaming rig (and monitor), you're already fairly well monetized... so why unnecessarily constrain yourself? If you're not, then consoles offer great value for money ... I can bring my Switch and 3DS anywhere I want, I can recharge one of them on the fly that I need to do anyways with my job requiring my laptop for notes and crunching data so portable rechargers is standard kit in my tote bag. I have two no less.

Then again, to defeat nearly all your points ... boardgaming is the most fun I have, the numbers of board gamers are doubling every couple of years, they're expensive as all hell, and their mechanics are delivered through largely plastic, wood, cardboard and possibly metal. Also infinitely more creative. It's almost as if 'dem graphics' isn't enough, and if it is, you're easily amused and video game devs don't have to try very hard.

To put it into context, you can sink more hours into a game like Uplink or any million oif PC games with a broken wreck of a PC, and consoles you just need your stock standard TV ... and you often get a great input device called a controller with them that will last on average longer than a gaming keyboard and mouse.

Consoles will still be a thing for as long as you have well monetized people like me, or people onl;y fairly well monetized (like many low middle class) who want access to some great, new games ... but can't afford a decent rig. Or maybe they don't wanta decent rig. Maybe they're video gamers that want to play videogames with their friends they can physically talk to. You know, like how the Switch has well and truly brken 5 million units. It's amost as if social people like me can say to one of their friends and hand them a controller; "Yo! Wanna race?" ... might be appealing to people with 20 minutes spare time before we have to go back to the lab.

It's almost as if real life is hectic, hard, often unfulfilling, and having 'home consoles' provide a fucking easy way to escapism that don't require you manually fiddling with Java updates and videocard tweaking or practically recoding Windows to simply play a fucking game might be attractive to people....

And no, I'm not learning Linux to play a fucking game.

So no, I don't see consoles going anywhere.

I will say my PS4 Pro fucking annoys me that when I install a newish game get bombarded with update requests over their pisspoor fucking servers whereby a 10mbit connection is reduced to 250kbps because of lag or bad wireless reception meaning I can't just play a fucking game when I turn it on.

Fortunately I have other devices that aren't so obnoxious. Like my 3DS, Switch, or my minilaptop I have Uplink and Close Combat on. I can even take those out to my patio, bathed in the nearby red neon light of a street sign bordering what I think is an unlicenced brothel, while I puff away on a joint. Mario Kart, lounging on a comfortable chair while high, is great.

Would recommend to all varying degrees of pretend grownups (aka adults in general).

 

[gsilver]

Consoles may be facing pressure, but it's coming from mobile.
Lots of people just can't be bothered with the complexity of a console, and I recently saw an article stating that even TV ownership is on the decline.

This is compounded further by the drastically lower costs of developing mobile games (and all of the questionable monetization practices that go with them)


Not that that's a good thing.
//I primarily game on PC

 

[Strelok]

It's coming for sure, consoles just can't keep up even the latest and greatest are already having issues and are not even out yet.

http://wccftech.com/killing-floor-2-runs-1800p-xbox-one-x/

It's time for consoles to die, they should have died long ago. Even in areas where consoles usually rule they are on the decline:

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/262738/japanese-retail-game-sales-decline-to-26-year-low/

The Switch halted that decline for a bit, but probably won't last long.

The end is here, and it took too long coming:

https://www.techspot.com/news/70443-steam-now-has-more-monthly-active-players-than.html

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

The truth is that from an objective point of view, without nostalgia, nationalistic pride (relevant to American and Japanese here I guess), and with a reverence that it was different before - consoles have no use in today's world. They are an anti-consumer and anti-art practice that exists ... for no real reason at all IMHO. The only things they have going for them is initial investment (uncertain) with a very small win and simplicity... but PC hardware and software is so insanely simple that I cant honestly take that argument at face value. A console requires 40 IQ, a PC needs 50... big deal. Irrelevant point to all human beings on these forums.

PCs are the better long term solution for both the art form and users.

Art form? What artistic games do you know that require a shit hot rig for? Off the top of my head SUPERHOT was the last game that I played that coupled divergent gameplay, skill, and creativity to call it artistic design. Where every enemy, the environment, and active hazard was almost a puzzle that you had a time limit to think about before exercising (hopefully) mastery over efficient weapon use, movement, and timing.

But you could run that game on a toaster.

PC gaming has all the greats, sure. But you don;t even need a decent PC to access them... which leads me to my next point ... console games are easier to make than PC games, have stock standard specs, easy devkits, unified control input devices, and the like ... which means that people spend less time in active codebusting to make sure it can be playable from day 1 with the largest paossible install base.

The other option to that is SUPERHOT ... making it play on almost anything.

Console games will always have their place for a very simple reason. They're easy to make assumptions about. When a player picks up a PS4 game, they know they can run it to a degree that is playable. Unless you are routinely digging through the guts of a PC, or you simply flash out what is a considerable amount of money that you don't need to spend time and money upgrading longterm, you're not entirely sure of the experience you can expect.

And sometimes it's not even a matter of specs, but rather it might be pre-existing weirdness with your machine that you end up facing bugs, or crashing, or any number of symptoms unique to your machine, thus the solutions unique to your knowledge of the machine. Which is a level of tedium a lot of people don't feel like going through.

Say what you like, in the same way that a PC with a bit of tweaking can play the greats of the past, I can always pick up my NES, plug it into an old CRT monitor, stick in Ninja Gaiden and thoroughly hate myself and the world around me. Then I pick up that painfully pointy controller again and masochistically tackle 8bit sprites once more after I have a calming cigarette out on the patio. There's something about console games. I'm not sure what you call it, but it's there. It's like having knowedge that no matter who plays what copy of Ninja Gaiden in their 30+ year old NES, they are having the same experience as you and are tested exactly like you. It's 'fair' in a way.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I will ask you bluntly - where did I say you need a powerful PC?
Answer me that please. I have, until 2015, never had a high end PC. Never. Still a PC Gamer even then, there was and still is no need to go all out on hardware, it is just a choice. Something consoles and console gamers lack.

As for the other point - then why are Japanese console games basically, with some exceptions, always second fiddle to American and European games in technology? Why are their UIs less efficient, their AI inferior, their physics engines generally terrible, their graphical fidelity bad, their optimization meh. Again there are exceptions and that doesn't make them BAD GAMES (except the AI and physics part), but it shows that programming skills... are not something console developers have.

Wasnt console gaming being easier to develop for the big pro for consoles? I dont get it.

In 20 years of being on PC, helping dozens of my friends IRL, I am yet to see, yet to find one of those insane problems. At worst - DDU or too weak to work on the PC. Occam's Razor + console gamers not knowing much makes me belief its just a myth.

There are very few NES on sale here. The NES is a dead platform that is not being produced anymore, and its systems are slowly (but surely) dying. There will never be more NES consoles made, than what you see right now. There are no upgrades for them, no spare parts. It is an ancient relic, left by console companies to die, its mortal and dying. I cant even find it in parts of the WORLD. Thank God PC gaming saves the actual games via emulation, our art form.

*As for that - that is nostalgia. I killed mine. Even better, I hardly had it as not the whole world was a console strongholed like America.

Well, that's just the point. I mean if you buy a dated computer with bargain parts, you're not going to enjoy AAA titles. You can play what's out there, or what's currently released that doesn't need that graphical workhorse capability. But ditto that's also going to keep you from experiences you want to have, and going to require you to consistently rip the innards of it. Which I partly find enjoyable to be honest, but I doubt I'm in the majority in those regards. I like machines. I prefer working on motorcycles, but I can appreciate what makes a machine tick. The idea you're pulling apart something arcane, and learning it. That unlike a biological entity, it's harder to point to core homeostatic systems.

Certainly you can point at the processor, but unlike the heart or brain of a mammal that has very definite boundaries in terms of qualities specific to it, it's harder with machines. And working on them lets you appreciate that journey of finding the 'heart' of the mechanical beast.

Anyways, there's actually a really, really popular NES cartridge making scene out there. It's actually not as hard as you may think to make a NES cartridge. They have reproductions still. People are even making new games. It's a fun scene. It's mostly hobbyists, but some of them are damn good. The NES is still alive and well. You even have people building homemade ones. It's the AK-74 of the videogaming world and anybody can make them.

The funny thing is, the NES will probably outlive current videocard companies and be actively catered to for decades still. The NES, everybody's favourite. And yeah, part of that is nostalgia but all addictions are chasing some high in the past. Emulators have nothing on my original grey beauty. Quality construction. It has never failed, which isn't something that can be said of any PC I have owned.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

OK, now next part: Why is it OK for a console not to play Ultra settings, 60+ fps at native 4K or something, but when a budget PC plays AAA games as well as a console it is somehow bad? Answer please as I often see this thinking. If a person on a budget PC is NOT enjoying AAA games, then is ANY console gamer doing that?

It's not bad, when did I say it was bad? I said that it's probably going to be tedious for many people who have other options. And for starters, for the cost of getting that Ultra setting, 4K display, you could probably pick up a PS4 Pro and 40 brand new titles. As you say, people want options, but not everyonecan afford to have specific options. Moreover people might not want to invest themselves in the process of discovering how to simply achieve some options.

And why constantly? My old PC survived from 2009 till 2015 (it still works BTW). Without any upgrades. A relic from the middle of the Xbox 360 and PS3 generation, its last game to play was Witcher 3. At 30 fps, 900P, low settings. Only a tad worse than an Xbox One...

And?

Biological entities are more complex than computers.

Didn't say they weren't, I said it's merely harder to picture the heart of a machine. That makes them enjoyable. And unlike animals that I might be arrested if I extended the same active exploration to them.

The NES is alive due to modders and tweakers for now? That is amazing, but their work will work on an emulator as well. And that makes it the ONLY console to have such support. I will ask you, what do we do with generation 1 and 2 of video games?

The NES is everyone in America's favourite. I had no such fate - I had a Terminator 2 console but understand that nostalgia is not valid when chasing heights in an art form. And Eastern Europe has nostalgia for old computers, not consoles.

The NES is from 1983. ATI is from 1985, Intel is from 1968, AMD from 1969, is from 1993. All of those companies (ATI is part of AMD now) are safe for the time being and some are older than the NES. They employee engineers of a caliber that is unmatched in console manufacturers. For what it is worth, they are Nintendo's daddy, technologically, engineering-wise and some of them - longevity-wise.

Yeah, but the difference is people are still willing to work with NES's infrastructure. No matter how old it is. The same criticism you could apply PCs now, modders and tweakers. The difference is I doubt videogame devs will be making games specifically for a computer infrastructure even only 10 years out of date.

What exactly is your point here? Mine is people obviously love consoles. There's something about them. That's clearly the case. And yeah, for whatever reason I'd rather play a NES classic game on my original grey beauty of a console that still works rather than on a PC emulator. The reason being is because of the experience of holding that type of controller from the past, alone, makes it feel safe and authentic to the videogame designs of old. And it's not merely nostalgia, because new games are being made for it. Like Star Versus.


It's like riding a classic motorcycle, lovingly kept in fine condition. It's an experience that might be replicated, but it won't feel the same. I agree that archetypal machines and games should be archived and kept for posterity. But simply relying on PC emulation? That's like saying a reproduction of a portrait is 'good enough'.

I would kind of hope that we keep the cartridges. Keep the machines. It's not merely how the game played or the information, it's the cartridge as well. It's the box art, the manuals, the original black dust sleeves, cartridge stickers, controllers. PC emulatorsdon't do it justice. They fundamentally alter the player's relationship to the game.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

So let me get this straight. It is ok for a console to play at medium settings, 900P, 25-30 fps, but when a PC does it, it is not OK. I strongly disagree, that is hypocrisy.

What?

That shows PCs can last as long as consoles.

Of course there'll still be PCs, just don't expect consoles to disappear any time soon. I'll be playing them until I die.

I dont think modern day humans are incapable of understand stuff such as GPU = graphics, CPU = boss of GPU and physics, AI.

So? So you reckon that people like me who have options to play anything but console games, yet still chose to play console games, don't exist?

I cant apply that criticism to PCs since we have backwards compatibility. I also apply it to the NES since it will die. Everything dies. 100 years from now, the only way to play those games would be on computers and in museums. Nowhere else. Get it now? Its the only long term solution for an art form, you know, Humanity's attempt at immortality?

Everything dies, but I will spend hours soldering chips on my NES and its cartridges before I try to rescue my dying PC. This argument is garbage precisely for the fact that we have NES games archived ... on computers ... yet we still play them on our NES and we still produce components for it. So no, the way to play NES games won't merely be on a fucking computer. Because more tech savvy people than me continue to work directly on chipsets. They don't make console games on consoles, they make them on PCs ... that doesn't follow the argument that therefore people don't play console games.

Also developers on PC do target old PCs. Most AAA games work on potatoes just fine. Mods are made for old games, run well on old PCs. And very VERY popular games like CS GO, World of Tanks, League of Legends - they are MADE to work on 2005 tier PCs. Its their design.

Yep, the difference is I don't see any videogame devs making games on floppy disk.

Nostalgia can lead to new games.

So can creativity.

PC Emulation on very old, pathetically weak hardware is objectively superior to what that old hardware can do. Listen, I believe in the art form, but I am also an engineer... I dont see your argument here. Nostalgia is not a valid argument, technology is. A valid if not objective one would be to claim that you want the experience of the console and controller, but the controller can 100% be replicated on a PC, a TV can be used (or a big monitor) and at that point the only difference is the case of a PC vs the case of an NES... and even that can be almost nailed (bar size). Arguing after that point just means nostalgia and/or corporate (for Nintendo) worship.

And that's fine. I don't expect you to like the same things as I do, but respect the argument that I'm not alone on preferring playing games on consoles regardless. Because PC emulation doesn't feel the same. Just like if you took my full cream milk and swapped it for any other dairy product. I'll taste it, I'll see it, and I will complain because it isn't the same.

You can pretend that your milk substitute is superior, but frankly I just want my milk back.

I mean you realize why your argument doesn't work, right? You keep telling me PC emulation is superior to me playing on my old NES, but then you keep telling me that that PC emulation will somehow be a more accurate means of keeping the game for posterity. We can program new NES games. We can build the chipsets.

Quite clearly it's not the same playing it on a PC. If you think your emulation is superior, then even you must recognize it's not going to provide the same experience. This is why I made my argument that we must keep the machine. Keep everything about the NES and make it the NES. And I'm self-evidently not alone in this regard. As we're still making NES games to be played on the NES.

If you want to see the real champions of the posterity of video games? You're looking at her and others like me. You can visit me and you'll have the genuine experience.

 

[bluegate]

Well, I personally have no plans of gaming on a computer in the near future, so for me it's Consoles or just no games at all.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

You said that. Dont answer me with wat.

No I didn't, I said people out there are going to want options and maybe not invest the time or money in securing the knowledge to achieve ultra 4K. Many gamers are happy with board games. Board games are still my favourite form of gaming. I don't play board games for the graphical fidelity. Good art is a plus in any boardgame, but then again good art won't save a bad board game.

I hope consoles die soon, but I hope you live a very long life. The good of my art form requires it, but you are a nicer person and deserve to enjoy it as God intended.

Why? Even modern consoles, I like. I have a gaming rig, but I also have a shitload of consoles. Atari and Sega didn't start making better games when they dropped out of the console market. And consumer choice and diversity of a hobby is always good for consumers. People like me keeping true retro gaming alive and possible, actually maintaining old consoles, is good for consumers. It's great that people are making new games for aged consoles purely out of the love of it ... because it means that we are above mindless consumerism and maximising consumption capacity and are capable of reimagining what we can do with the old.

That is beneficial for videogaming. That's where the artistry will come from. Passion over profit.

I know you guys exist, but that does not make sense. It is like people giving EA and Konami their money on DLCs and Pre-Orders... it is a fact but it does not make sense.

And you should spend more time fixing your NES than your PC. Your NES will one day be worth a lot of money for archival and historical purposes. Keep it alive till then. Sell it and you will be a happy man. Your PC LIKELY (there are exceptions) doesnt have one of a kind hardware in it and can be replaced. You have the right idea.

A: Woman

B: I'm never selling it. That machine I've had since I was four. It makes me happier than simply money. For starters, I don't need the money. Secondly I don't trust anybody else to take care of it as well.

C: The make new components for the Apple II. They also make new components for the NES.

Some rare small projects can be made on a floppy disk. The reason most are not though is simple - it is a very big limitation and can limit very ambitious projects.

As opposed to making a game that can only be played on a 34 year old machine? "Pretend 8/16bit" gaming is a big thing on PCs, but if you asked them to make it a NES exclusive they'd probably laugh. That's precisely my point ... there's game devs out there thinking the NES is the perfect platform for their game.

The way NES games are made via tiled sprites is a work of art. Knowing the limitations of the medium and working through it still is part and parcel of the artistic process.

How does PC emulation not feel the same, bar bugs which always get ironed out eventually? What is the secret? Can I measure it? Can I see it? If I can not... well then it does not exist.
I am absolutely fine playing my old Terminator 1 and 2 games on my PC. I am happy I can play them on my hardware easily. If I also care to go the extra lenght, I can procure a similar controller for PC or the exact same or even MAKE one.

Technology is not very applicable to and for taste.

Yes, but games aren't merely a feat of technology. Board gaming is my favourite type of gaming. You could also have PC emulation of it, like Jinteki.net ... but it doesn't feel the same as playing Netrunner in the flesh.

When I play a console I'm getting a genuine console experience. If I'm playing a PC emulation, it feels different. Looks different than my old CRT monitor I keep around just for it. There's no manual. Even the information itself is coded differently.